Y2HH Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Jake @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 02:17 PM) I don't think I'm voting for the lesser of two evils. I think they're both good men and fully intend to do a good job. I think one has a terrible philosophy. The other I admire, even if he doesn't or hasn't implemented it to my exact expectation. So your justifying why you're voting for the lesser of two evils. Got it. Religious people do this same exact thing. Edited September 18, 2012 by Y2HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 06:09 PM) The medical center bill for my knee surgery last month was almost $6k for an hour long procedure. And that doesn't include the actual DOCTOR bill, which I haven't got yet. Each office visit, which literally was less than 2 minutes, cost $220. Can't WAIT to see that one. I've never seen anything like the current situation in our country regarding the medical profession. I've never had my insurance company OK all the costs regarding a trip to the doctor or dentist. They always dispute something that I have to pay. And as far as getting in to see the doctor? It's ridiculous. You can't get in and basically the attitude is they could give a s*** about the patient. I guess I have to keep looking to find a doctor who actually cares. Do any?? Maybe some of you are having good luck with doctors and your insurance companies. I'm not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 03:02 PM) So your justifying why you're voting for the lesser of two evils. Got it. Religious people do this same exact thing. lol, but I don't find them to be evil. If evil = less than perfect, then sure. I don't perceive this to be "all candidates will hurt the country upon taking office, I have to choose the one that will hurt it least." I think the candidate I choose will make the country better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 03:54 PM) I've never seen anything like the current situation in our country regarding the medical profession. I've never had my insurance company OK all the costs regarding a trip to the doctor or dentist. They always dispute something that I have to pay. And as far as getting in to see the doctor? It's ridiculous. You can't get in and basically the attitude is they could give a s*** about the patient. I guess I have to keep looking to find a doctor who actually cares. Do any?? Maybe some of you are having good luck with doctors and your insurance companies. I'm not. I have never had a problem getting in to see my regular doc, or the ortho guy for my knee. Only time I had issues was when I went to see the podiatrist. That was like a month wait! And while the policy itself isn't the best, I have Aetna and have not had any issues with them disputing or not paying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 12:23 PM) Always semantics with you, unless it comes from the mouth of a Republican. Face it, what he said was true, and you helped provide an example. People are gonna vote to keep their free stuff coming from Uncle Sugar. And people who pay no taxes don't really care about lowering the tax rate since it doesn't effect them (that they can see). People will vote for policies and programs they like and may personally benefit from? The nerve! Clearly this whole democracy thing is a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 03:54 PM) I've never seen anything like the current situation in our country regarding the medical profession. I've never had my insurance company OK all the costs regarding a trip to the doctor or dentist. They always dispute something that I have to pay. And as far as getting in to see the doctor? It's ridiculous. You can't get in and basically the attitude is they could give a s*** about the patient. I guess I have to keep looking to find a doctor who actually cares. Do any?? Maybe some of you are having good luck with doctors and your insurance companies. I'm not. I've had 4 general doctors in my life, 2 of them have been fantastic, 1 was competent, and the last was the epitome of s***ty (but it was in Michigan, so that doesn't count). The ones I didn't like didn't last long as my doctor, the two I've loved lasted for about 14 years and 5 years respectively (still ongoing with the 5 year doctor). All of the specialists I have been to have been also fantastic, including my orthopedist who did just an amazing job on an ACL replacement. The overall competency/care from doctors is not the issue in this country. It's the lawsuits for malpractice, insurance costs, and overall cost of procedures (which is result of previous said issues). My ACL surgery cost over $40k alone, not to mention doctor visits and 8 weeks of rehab. Luckily, out of pocket was probably less than $2k for my family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 04:04 PM) I have never had a problem getting in to see my regular doc, or the ortho guy for my knee. Only time I had issues was when I went to see the podiatrist. That was like a month wait! And while the policy itself isn't the best, I have Aetna and have not had any issues with them disputing or not paying. I have Aetna as well now, really wish I could go back to Blue Cross Blue Shield as they have been amazing to my family, but at my employer it is Aetna or United (who wouldn't even pay for my mom's diabetes medicine after claiming they would and then fighting with her for weeks). Hoping when I have issues in the future that they are fine to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 04:05 PM) People will vote for policies and programs they like and may personally benefit from? The nerve! Clearly this whole democracy thing is a failure. So why then was anything Romney said so bad? He told the truth! Oh my God, never do that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I get irritated with the costs of preventative care like simple visits to the doctor, different tests like colonoscopy, etc. Why should my parents be paying out of pocket for things that will likely save the insurance money down the line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 04:12 PM) So why then was anything Romney said so bad? He told the truth! Oh my God, never do that! He didn't lie, he just said that he isn't interested in trying to gain their votes. This suggests that he won't be helping them, especially since he went on to broadly characterize them as basically leeches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 04:12 PM) So why then was anything Romney said so bad? He told the truth! Oh my God, never do that! Well there was a lot of dumb, not-true and silly stuff he said aside from what I find morally repugnant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cknolls Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 04:10 PM) I have Aetna as well now, really wish I could go back to Blue Cross Blue Shield as they have been amazing to my family, but at my employer it is Aetna or United (who wouldn't even pay for my mom's diabetes medicine after claiming they would and then fighting with her for weeks). Hoping when I have issues in the future that they are fine to deal with. I have UNH and they have paid for all of my son's supplies/medicine including an insulin pump and cgm. The only thing they tried to do was cut the number of test strips from 300 a month to 200 a month. But with a doctor's letter, we appealed and they okayed the usual supply. Did they give a reason for denying your Mom's medicine? You have to wonder why they would deny a medicine with the chance of paying a much larger hospital bill down the road if a customer became very sick. Makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Mitt Romney's father was on welfare for 4 years. So according to Romney, he could not get his fathers own vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 No no no, his father was a hard-working man just struggling to get by and down on his luck. People like him deserve a helping hand in hard times, it's those other people, those welfare queens that are stealing our hard-earned money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 19, 2012 -> 04:53 AM) No no no, his father was a hard-working man just struggling to get by and down on his luck. People like him deserve a helping hand in hard times, it's those other people, those welfare queens that are stealing our hard-earned money. Well...what you just said is partially true. I can't speak for Mitt, but when people use welfare according to it's actual intention, I have absolutely NO issue with it. As a matter of fact, I'm glad it exists for that purpose. Mitt's father used welfare for it's intended purpose...to help get him back on his feet. Growing up, my best friends mother did the same. He was on welfare for quite a few years when we were kids, eventually, his mother got a good enough job to live without it, and went back to college later in her life (in her late 40's). In this instance, the system worked as intended. She was able bodied and did something about it, despite having 2 kids and being a single mother throughout the entire time. I still hang out with him to this day, over 25 years later. Welfare queens, as you put it, are abusing the system, and part of this isn't even their own fault. Modern politicians (on both sides) helped foster this environment for them...because they're not using the system to get back on their feet...they're using it to continue being lazy. And lazy people tend to raise lazy kids who churn the system. It's a problem our system helped create, unfortunately...so I don't agree with Mitt in that this is some sort of democratic problem, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 You're right. Modern politicians did foster that situation by imagining that they actually exist. Your friend, btw, if he was on welfare for "quite a few years", would likely run into the lifetime TANF limit and be tossed off the program. And, since they stayed on it for "quite a few years", they're clearly welfare queens. Get a job and get off welfare! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 19, 2012 -> 09:05 AM) You're right. Modern politicians did foster that situation by imagining that they actually exist. Your friend, btw, if he was on welfare for "quite a few years", would likely run into the lifetime TANF limit and be tossed off the program. And, since they stayed on it for "quite a few years", they're clearly welfare queens. Get a job and get off welfare! I'm sure that's the point though. His friend DID eventually get off the system because he needed TEMPORARY help. It didn't become generational like a lot of people in this country (see: Public Housing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 19, 2012 -> 10:11 AM) I'm sure that's the point though. His friend DID eventually get off the system because he needed TEMPORARY help. It didn't become generational like a lot of people in this country (see: Public Housing) This is really a stellar example. It's always those unnamed others who are abusing the system. It's those unnamed others who are getting the government benefits, not the good people like me/the ones I know. It's the ones in public housing, they're the ones taking advantage of the program, if you go through there you wouldn't find anyone hard working trying to come up with a better life After all, I'm paying my taxes, I'm working hard, but deep down I know that someone must be taking advantage of the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 19, 2012 -> 09:15 AM) This is really a stellar example. It's always those unnamed others who are abusing the system. It's those unnamed others who are getting the government benefits, not the good people like me/the ones I know. It's the ones in public housing, they're the ones taking advantage of the program, if you go through there you wouldn't find anyone hard working trying to come up with a better life After all, I'm paying my taxes, I'm working hard, but deep down I know that someone must be taking advantage of the system. Are you denying that there aren't people abusing the system? That we're setting up a nanny state for a large number of people? And it's not unnamed others, it's people in the public housing system right now. Go knock on a door and there's an example. I had an entire law class devoted to public housing and the Chicago Housing Authority. It's not a "oh, so you don't become homeless here's a place to stay for a couple months/year." It's "here's a house for life. Oh, and on page 5 of this form here's where you can b**** about having to pay 12 dollars for your electricity bill." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 19, 2012 -> 10:23 AM) Are you denying that there aren't people abusing the system? That we're setting up a nanny state for a large number of people? And it's not unnamed others, it's people in the public housing system right now. Go knock on a door and there's an example. I had an entire law class devoted to public housing and the Chicago Housing Authority. It's not a "oh, so you don't become homeless here's a place to stay for a couple months/year." It's "here's a house for life. Oh, and on page 5 of this form here's where you can b**** about having to pay 12 dollars for your electricity bill." And by that standard, a person who took "A couple of years" to get their lives together and pull their family out of poverty would be "abusing the system". When it's someone you know, "it's always different". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 19, 2012 -> 09:25 AM) And by that standard, a person who took "A couple of years" to get their lives together and pull their family out of poverty would be "abusing the system". When it's someone you know, "it's always different". Couple of years =/= a lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 19, 2012 -> 10:30 AM) Couple of years =/= a lifetime. As long as we have the objective standard of "the ones I know are doing it right, they must be because they're the good guys and I know them" then, we can clearly feel ok about offering "Several years" of assistance to those families, and then kick the others out on the streets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 19, 2012 -> 09:44 AM) As long as we have the objective standard of "the ones I know are doing it right, they must be because they're the good guys and I know them" then, we can clearly feel ok about offering "Several years" of assistance to those families, and then kick the others out on the streets. Who's creating this standard exactly? I haven't said anything about it. If people in public housing are in there for less than 5 years as they're attempting to get work, that's fine. If they're in their for longer, then it's not. How does that have anything to do with people I know/people I don't know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 19, 2012 -> 07:56 AM) Who's creating this standard exactly? I haven't said anything about it. If people in public housing are in there for less than 5 years as they're attempting to get work, that's fine. If they're in their for longer, then it's not. How does that have anything to do with people I know/people I don't know? So what's your solution? Throw them all on the street? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Sep 19, 2012 -> 10:58 AM) So what's your solution? Throw them all on the street? I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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