The Republican Thread

[StrangeSox]

Not sure how this got derailed into a % of GDP argument. The point of that graph is that we're talking about a tiny sliver of total government spending here, and liberals are acting like the world is going to end.

 

Probably because of the economic projections (and past and current experiences of Europe) that indicate that it will probably throw us into another recession.

 

edit: and undercuts investment in future economic growth through infrastructure and scientific research.

Edited March 5, 2013 by StrangeSox

[EvilMonkey]

Do you guys go to a grocery store that you drive to, or do you live in a place where your only source of groceries is the corner convenience store and it's an hour+ bus ride each way to get to the nearest grocery store (and you're limited to what you can carry home, and you've just finished up your 2nd 29 hour a week job when you head there?)

Is it your point that only poor people in the city are on welfare/food stamps? That all people getting food stamps don't have cars?

 

 

[EvilMonkey]

There's a reason why the "live on $4 a day" challenge exists in the first place.

if you go and try and apply for SNAP, the minimum amount you would get is $200 a month. That comes to $6.66 per day, a 50% increase of your $4 per day.

[Jenksismyhero]

Probably because of the economic projections (and past and current experiences of Europe) that indicate that it will probably throw us into another recession.

 

edit: and undercuts investment in future economic growth through infrastructure and scientific research.

 

2 f***ing %. GMAB. You remember about 8-10 years ago all those fear mongering claims of the Bush Admn? That's exactly what's going on now.

[StrangeSox]

The average monthly benefit per-person is far less than $200/month

 

http://www.fns.usda.gov/pd/18SNAPavg$PP.htm

 

The minimum, at least in Mass (what I could google), is $16. The maximum for an individual is $200.

[StrangeSox]

2 f***ing %. GMAB. You remember about 8-10 years ago all those fear mongering claims of the Bush Admn? That's exactly what's going on now.

 

Hey so you want to actually talk economic projections or just your "gut"?

[Balta1701]

Is it your point that only poor people in the city are on welfare/food stamps? That all people getting food stamps don't have cars?

In most cities, out of the lowest income groups (bottom 20%), 1/3 to 1/4 of the people actually own cars.

 

So for the most part, yeah.

[Jenksismyhero]

Hey so you want to actually talk economic projections or just your "gut"?

 

Projections by who? The White House? Please.

 

Here's a bunch of economists who, at most, say growth will be slowed. But even that isn't a for-sure projection.

 

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/112544/...erican-economy#

Edited March 5, 2013 by Jenksismybitch

[EvilMonkey]

The average monthly benefit per-person is far less than $200/month

 

http://www.fns.usda.gov/pd/18SNAPavg$PP.htm

 

The minimum, at least in Mass (what I could google), is $16. The maximum for an individual is $200.

I just went to IL Snap page and tried to sign my son up for food stamps. If he wanted to do it, he would be eligible for $200 a month in assistance. I am sure every state has some differences, I am telling you what I just found out here in IL.

[witesoxfan]

Fun site.

 

As a credit conscious, fiscally conservative American, this is the the most alarming part of that data to me

 

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/debt_deficit_brief.php

 

And again, this is not an indictment of the Obama administration but of the leadership in this country over the last 15 years or so in general (regarding total debt and percentage of debt vs GDP, not the deficit or interest payments). It's great that the US government sells bonds and borrows debt from other countries to pay for necessities now while paying out more in the future, but generally speaking, it needs to be a body of regulation with ultimate power and they need to take care of the amount of debt within the country itself. You see that public debt in 2011-12 dipped, but that was more to do with a lack of faith in the US' credit than it did in the US' ability to withdraw credit (though this is mere speculation on my part due to the degradation of the US bond score).

 

That's my biggest problem. Spend and spend and spend but if this debt is not paid off, the US will struggle to be able to withdraw money in the future. I'm hoping we don't have to go to payday loans to pay our senators in the future.

[DukeNukeEm]

Not sure how this got derailed into a % of GDP argument. The point of that graph is that we're talking about a tiny sliver of total government spending here, and liberals are acting like the world is going to end.

You ever see The Thing? You know when Kurt Russell figures out that even burning a little saucer of blood provokes a wild overreaction out of the monster? That's how liberals are about their government.

 

As for the % GDP s***, government shouldn't grow exactly at the rate GDP growth does. Police/fire/military spending should go up, but at a slower rate because there is existing infrastructure. Let's say town of 10,000 people with a median income $30k has 50 cops. 20 years later the median income has risen to $50k and population to 12,000, does that mean they need 75 cops now? No, but the local government still wants their cut and incompetent bums will still feel entitled to government jobs.

 

Besides, we always hear from liberals how poorly funded everything is (they even complain about the military cuts now, but maybe that's only because they think they can use it to kill gun owners): "Our roads are falling apart! Oh no, the bridges! What about healthcare?! WILL SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE TEACHERS?!". Look at the graph motherf***ers, we've been feeding your little monster 10% more of the entire value of the wealth created in this country in the past 60 years and its somehow gotten worse at doing just about goddamn everything.

[StrangeSox]

Projections by who? The White House? Please.

 

Here's a bunch of economists who, at most, say growth will be slowed. But even that isn't a for-sure projection.

 

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/112544/...erican-economy#

 

No projections are "for-sure," but that's a good starting point. It will unquestionably have a negative impact on the economy and, based on everything we've seen from Europe, will actually make the deficits worse. Of course politicians are trying to dramatize it, but it's foolish to minimize the impact in the way your chart did. This is going to have a real effect on real people and is the dumbest thing we can be doing right now in such a weak economy.

 

Here's the CBO, which projects a 1.4% knock on GDP growth. That's huge.

http://www.cbo.gov/publication/43961

Edited March 5, 2013 by StrangeSox

[Balta1701]

I just went to IL Snap page and tried to sign my son up for food stamps. If he wanted to do it, he would be eligible for $200 a month in assistance. I am sure every state has some differences, I am telling you what I just found out here in IL.

And after checking, they're calculating housing costs and dependent costs into that also.

 

I could get $320 a month in IL having rent, minimum wage income, and several dependents. What a generous bonus!

[DukeNukeEm]

Probably because of the economic projections (and past and current experiences of Europe) that indicate that it will probably throw us into another recession.

 

edit: and undercuts investment in future economic growth through infrastructure and scientific research.

At this point the system is so broken that fixing it is going to put us through some nasty times. We could've just gotten it over with in 2008 and the structural fixes would finally be helping out, but we've elected to just live permanently in mediocrity as opposed to a few years of legit suffering for what would be a better overall lifetime.

 

We cannot just hide behind the copout that something might cause a recession.

[StrangeSox]

Fun site.

 

As a credit conscious, fiscally conservative American, this is the the most alarming part of that data to me

 

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/debt_deficit_brief.php

 

And again, this is not an indictment of the Obama administration but of the leadership in this country over the last 15 years or so in general (regarding total debt and percentage of debt vs GDP, not the deficit or interest payments). It's great that the US government sells bonds and borrows debt from other countries to pay for necessities now while paying out more in the future, but generally speaking, it needs to be a body of regulation with ultimate power and they need to take care of the amount of debt within the country itself. You see that public debt in 2011-12 dipped, but that was more to do with a lack of faith in the US' credit than it did in the US' ability to withdraw credit (though this is mere speculation on my part due to the degradation of the US bond score).

 

Bond rates remain at basically zero. There's no lack of faith in the US bonds. Nobody paid attention to the ratings agency's downgrade, nor should they (AAA Sub-prime derivatives!)

 

That's my biggest problem. Spend and spend and spend but if this debt is not paid off, the US will struggle to be able to withdraw money in the future. I'm hoping we don't have to go to payday loans to pay our senators in the future.

 

No sovereign, currency-issuing government ever needs to or should completely pay off a debt. Debt finances growth.

[StrangeSox]

I just went to IL Snap page and tried to sign my son up for food stamps. If he wanted to do it, he would be eligible for $200 a month in assistance. I am sure every state has some differences, I am telling you what I just found out here in IL.

 

The minimum an individual can receive is far below $200.

[StrangeSox]

At this point the system is so broken that fixing it is going to put us through some nasty times. We could've just gotten it over with in 2008 and the structural fixes would finally be helping out, but we've elected to just live permanently in mediocrity as opposed to a few years of legit suffering for what would be a better overall lifetime.

 

We cannot just hide behind the copout that something might cause a recession.

 

Agreed. It is time for the proletariat revolution!

[Jenksismyhero]

No projections are "for-sure," but that's a good starting point. It will unquestionably have a negative impact on the economy and, based on everything we've seen from Europe, will actually make the deficits worse. Of course politicians are trying to dramatize it, but it's foolish to minimize the impact in the way your chart did. This is going to have a real effect on real people and is the dumbest thing we can be doing right now in such a weak economy.

 

Here's the CBO, which projects a 1.4% knock on GDP growth. That's huge.

http://www.cbo.gov/publication/43961

 

Because the CBO projections are never wrong.

[StrangeSox]

Sometimes they are? But those economists you linked to universally said that the impact would be a negative drag on the economy. Great, five years after the collapse and we're still above 7% unemployment and pursuing policies that make it worse.

[Reddy]

At this point the system is so broken that fixing it is going to put us through some nasty times. We could've just gotten it over with in 2008 and the structural fixes would finally be helping out, but we've elected to just live permanently in mediocrity as opposed to a few years of legit suffering for what would be a better overall lifetime.

 

We cannot just hide behind the copout that something might cause a recession.

What's your plan when you lose your jobs?

[pettie4sox]

What's your plan when you lose your jobs?

 

Simple, they need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

[StrangeSox]

A physical impossibility, the phrase originally was used to describe impossible actions.

[pettie4sox]

A physical impossibility, the phrase originally was used to describe impossible actions.

 

Semantics.

[DukeNukeEm]

What's your plan when you lose your jobs?

People will figure it out. I was well below the poverty line for 18 months of my life and after realizing how much I hated that existence I decided I would stop being poor. Suffering makes people stronger, being poor makes you want to be rich... pretty simple stuff. Toughen em up a little, make them sweat it out for a year or so and they'll get awfully creative in finding new ways of making money.

[mr_genius]

It is time for the proletariat revolution!

 

but you let the Bourgeoisie purchase every seat of power and confiscate all weapons.