The Republican Thread

[Soxbadger]

I don't know why you keep ignoring the other half of what he said which was everyone is a sinner, we don't judge, we love and respect everyone and let God judge later on.

 

I still want to know why the Pope is an advocate for gay people and Phil is some awful, hateful human being. They believe and say the exact same things. Neither one is the extreme anti-gay groups that tell people they'll be burning in hell.

 

I still want to know why I care what the Pope or Phil think...

 

They are just humans and like every human they have an opinion, and more importantly like most humans, their opinions are stupid and irrelevant.

[Jenksismyhero]

Who are these liberals that you speak of?

 

I have to imagine that Im (by the historical definition) the most liberal and I dont care what this guy says.

 

I always attribute the quote to Voltaire (there is some historical debate), but I think he said it best:

 

I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it.

 

I'm clearly speaking in general terms here, but you really disagree with me that conservative/religious groups that have dominated western culture for centuries have wanted a certain level of decorum with society whereas liberals/progressives have wanted to break free from those constraints? We still fight over that crap with nipples at the Superbowl.

[StrangeSox]

I don't know why you keep ignoring the other half of what he said which was everyone is a sinner, we don't judge, we love and respect everyone and let God judge later on.

 

Because "I'm not a [racist/homophobe/sexist/etc.] but..." statements don't actually change what you've said.

 

I still want to know why the Pope is an advocate for gay people and Phil is some awful, hateful human being. They believe and say the exact same things. Neither one is the extreme anti-gay groups that tell people they'll be burning in hell.

 

The Pope has been praised for his general move away from the ultra-conservative positions the church has been taking. People are happy to see movement in a positive direction, and that movement should be seen as good. I haven't seen anyone calling the Pope an advocate for LGBT, though.

 

And again, no, they aren't saying the exact same things. Show me the quote where Pope Francis links LGBT to bestiality.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Because "I'm not a [racist/homophobe/sexist/etc.] but..." statements don't actually change what you've said.

 

 

 

The Pope has been praised for his general move away from the ultra-conservative positions the church has been taking. People are happy to see movement in a positive direction, and that movement should be seen as good. I haven't seen anyone calling the Pope an advocate for LGBT, though.

 

And again, no, they aren't saying the exact same things. Show me the quote where Pope Francis links LGBT to bestiality.

 

By still maintaining a position that homosexuality is a sin, he's linking it to bestiality and ever other "sin" he and the Church believe in. He doesn't need to expressly say it for it to be true.

 

edit: and I think Phil is doing the same thing - not being the ultra-conservative "you're all burning in hell and shouldn't be allowed to be Christian" Christian, and more "we're all sinners and we should love one another and follow God."

Edited December 20, 2013 by Jenksismybitch

[witesoxfan]

Sorry, contextually. I have an anus. Women have vaginas. I'm not referencing it in a sexual manner, which is exactly what Phil Robertson was doing, which makes it inappropriate.

 

It's not a big deal, I'm not offended, he's dug himself a deep enough hole by not showing better judgment than talking about that.

[StrangeSox]

By still maintaining a position that homosexualty is a sin, he's linking it to bestiality and ever other "sin" he and the Church believe in. He doesn't need to expressly say it for it to be true.

 

This only works as an excuse in a vacuum that ignores how LGBT is always linked to bestiality by bigots.

[Jenksismyhero]

This only works as an excuse in a vacuum that ignores how LGBT is always linked to bestiality by bigots.

 

Oh ok, you can take things out of context and focus on only a few words but I can't. Got it.

[Soxbadger]

I'm clearly speaking in general terms here, but you really disagree with me that conservative/religious groups that have dominated western culture for centuries have wanted a certain level of decorum with society whereas liberals/progressives have wanted to break free from those constraints? We still fight over that crap with nipples at the Superbowl.

 

I think that true liberals like me could care less about a nipple slip or any of that bulls*** noise.

 

I think that many people who say they are liberals are not even close to it.

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

I haven't seen anyone calling the Pope an advocate for LGBT, though.

 

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/prominent-gay-...n-his-birthday/

 

VATICAN CITY - The oldest gay rights magazine in the United States named Pope Francis its "Person of the Year" as the pontiff marked his 77th birthday on Tuesday by inviting homeless people to join him for breakfast in the Vatican.

 

The Advocate magazine said it gave Francis the honor because, although he is still against homosexual marriage, his pontificate so far had shown "a stark change in (anti-gay) rhetoric from his two predecessors".

 

It hailed as a landmark his famous response last July to a reporter who asked about gay people in the Church: "If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge?"

 

The Advocate noted that the Catholic gay organization "Equally Blessed" called the phrase "some of the most encouraging words a pontiff has ever spoken about gay and lesbian people".

 

The Vatican has stressed the pope's words did not change Church teachings that homosexual tendencies are not sinful but homosexual acts are.

 

Still, the gay community and many heterosexuals in the Church have welcomed what they see as a shift in emphasis and a call for the Church to be more compassionate and less condemning.

 

The Advocate said no-one should "underestimate any pope's capacity for persuading hearts and minds in opening to LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transsexual) people".

 

Last week, Time magazine gave Francis the same honor, crediting him with shifting the message of the Catholic Church towards mercy and away from condemnation while capturing the imagination of millions.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Jenksismybitch

[Soxbadger]

This only works as an excuse in a vacuum that ignores how LGBT is always linked to bestiality by bigots.

 

Sex was always linked to bestiality aka beast with two backs from Othello.

 

Although maybe that was racist because it was white on black sex. Or is that black on white.

 

Who the f*** cares?

 

If you think you can stop people from being bigots, I have a few bridges that Id like to sell you.

[StrangeSox]

Oh ok, you can take things out of context and focus on only a few words but I can't. Got it.

 

What? No, looking at it in a vacuum as you are is taking it out of context. Looking at it with the background of bigots frequently equating LGBT and bestiality is keeping it in context.

 

When has Pope Francis equated LGBT to bestiality? I'm still waiting for you to substantiate your claims that they're saying the exact same things.

[StrangeSox]

Sex was always linked to bestiality aka beast with two backs from Othello.

 

Literary metaphors are not the same thing as bigots frequently, for decades, comparing LGBT to literal bestiality.

 

If you think you can stop people from being bigots, I have a few bridges that Id like to sell you.

 

We've gone from anti-gay measures being a big political win to majority support for LGBT marriage and I think 18 states having legalized it and DOMA struck down in less than a decade.

[Reddy]

Arguing over whether or not he was wrong to say what he said is pointless. It doesn't matter. He has a right to say what he wants and the network has a right to fire him. The end.

[Soxbadger]

We've gone from anti-gay measures being a big political win to majority support for LGBT marriage and I think 18 states having legalized it and DOMA struck down in less than a decade.

 

If you think this means that there is no more bigotry in those 18 states, I still have bridges to sell you.

 

If you think that just because of the civil rights movement there is no bigotry against minorities, I have bridges to sell you.

 

You cant legislate nor force people to be good humans who are respectful and kind to others regardless of skin, sex, age, whatever.

 

What I can do is make sure that everyone knows just how pathetically stupid bigots are.

 

What I can do is show why that Phil guy is just a dumb f*** who might be entertaining to a certain subset of people.

 

Not my cup of tea, but cant argue taste.

[StrangeSox]

If you think this means that there is no more bigotry in those 18 states, I still have bridges to sell you.

 

If you think that just because of the civil rights movement there is no bigotry against minorities, I have bridges to sell you.

 

I certainly don't think those things and nothing I said implies that I do. I do think that there are less bigoted people, at least with respect to LGBT, in 2013 than there were just ten years ago. Bigotry isn't static and unchangeable in the aggregate, even if there will always be bigots.

 

 

 

What I can do is make sure that everyone knows just how pathetically stupid bigots are.

 

But as we can see in this thread, we've got people who don't find what he said to be hateful or bigoted at all.

[Soxbadger]

But as we can see in this thread, we've got people who don't find what he said to be hateful or bigoted at all.

 

So what?

 

All I can do is present the argument for why things arent likely what people believe, after that its up to them.

 

It would be extremely hypocritical for me to get upset with Phil, because while he is wrong, he just is stating his opinion. And I state mine all the time, I just happen to be right. But thats the thing, there are probably millions of people who think the type of things I say and believe are just as bad as Phil.

 

They happen to be wrong, but thats the reality. The reality is that to some people I am the Phil.

 

(edit)

 

The only real difference is that I would fight to the death for their right to be wrong, because everyone is entitled to have a stupid opinion and be dumb.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Soxbadger

[Jenksismyhero]

What? No, looking at it in a vacuum as you are is taking it out of context. Looking at it with the background of bigots frequently equating LGBT and bestiality is keeping it in context.

 

When has Pope Francis equated LGBT to bestiality? I'm still waiting for you to substantiate your claims that they're saying the exact same things.

 

I can't help it if you don't read what I posted with regard to the Pope. The Pope and Church still consider homosexuality a sin and yet he's being praised for his "modern" view of "acceptance" instead of condemnation.

 

You're quibbling over the fact that Robertson gave examples of certain sins in discussing sinful behavior (of which you keep keying in on bestiality despite the fact he gave several other examples). What difference does it make if the Pope says homosexuality is a sin or that homosexuality is a sin just like X, Y and Z? There is none.

 

At the end of the day they're both saying homosexuality is a sin but we should still love sinners, teach them about Jesus and let God judge them later. It's not "our" job to do that.

 

 

[Soxbadger]

I can't help it if you don't read what I posted with regard to the Pope. The Pope and Church still consider homosexuality a sin and yet he's being praised for his "modern" view of "acceptance" instead of condemnation.

 

You're quibbling over the fact that Robertson gave examples of certain sins in discussing sinful behavior (of which you keep keying in on bestiality despite the fact he gave several other examples). What difference does it make if the Pope says homosexuality is a sin or that homosexuality is a sin just like X, Y and Z? There is none.

 

At the end of the day they're both saying homosexuality is a sin but we should still love sinners, teach them about Jesus and let God judge them later. It's not "our" job to do that.

 

There are a certain group of LGBT who strive for acceptance from the Church and mainstream. So they pander to the Pope in hopes that it will curry favor and hopefully carry the day.

 

Its stupidity. But most people want to be in the club that rejects them, not the one who wants them.

 

Go figure.

[Jenksismyhero]

There are a certain group of LGBT who strive for acceptance from the Church and mainstream. So they pander to the Pope in hopes that it will curry favor and hopefully carry the day.

 

Its stupidity. But most people want to be in the club that rejects them, not the one who wants them.

 

Go figure.

 

Well that's a whole other animal. Why do people get pissy about what Christians believe when they don't care to be Christian? That's why I don't understand why I'm a bigot and hateful person for believing homosexuals are sinners (just like me for the various sins i've committed) according to MY RELIGIOUS BELIEFS, but don't think they should be treated as second class citizens, denied rights, etc.?

 

[Soxbadger]

Well that's a whole other animal. Why do people get pissy about what Christians believe when they don't care to be Christian? That's why I don't understand why I'm a bigot and hateful person for believing homosexuals are sinners (just like me for the various sins i've committed) according to MY RELIGIOUS BELIEFS, but don't think they should be treated as second class citizens, denied rights, etc.?

 

Well I just accept that to certain people I am a bigot, because well its just easier to believe that Im a monster than try and prove that Im not. But the point is, what does it matter if Im a monster if Im right? Isnt that what this is really all about, what is right, versus what is wrong.

 

I think that what is right is that all humans deserve to be treated equal, regardless of sex, rage, religion whatever. I think that I am right that there is no god and that none of this matters, and that the only point may be to have fun/joy and try for our millisecond brief existence to make a better millisecond existence for the next human.

 

But I dont care if someone else disagrees. I just am going to keep doing my thing and trying to improve that millisecond for everyone.

[Jenksismyhero]

Well I just accept that to certain people I am a bigot, because well its just easier to believe that Im a monster than try and prove that Im not. But the point is, what does it matter if Im a monster if Im right? Isnt that what this is really all about, what is right, versus what is wrong.

 

I think that what is right is that all humans deserve to be treated equal, regardless of sex, rage, religion whatever. I think that I am right that there is no god and that none of this matters, and that the only point may be to have fun/joy and try for our millisecond brief existence to make a better millisecond existence for the next human.

 

But I dont care if someone else disagrees. I just am going to keep doing my thing and trying to improve that millisecond for everyone.

 

I agree with you, but the problem is people like SS and organizations like GLAAD b**** and whine and call people pretty awful things and then eventually get them fired or in trouble for it. All in the name of tolerance and acceptance mind you.

 

 

[pettie4sox]

Arguing over whether or not he was wrong to say what he said is pointless. It doesn't matter. He has a right to say what he wants and the network has a right to fire him. The end.

 

/thread /topic

[GoSox05]

Well that's a whole other animal. Why do people get pissy about what Christians believe when they don't care to be Christian? That's why I don't understand why I'm a bigot and hateful person for believing homosexuals are sinners (just like me for the various sins i've committed) according to MY RELIGIOUS BELIEFS, but don't think they should be treated as second class citizens, denied rights, etc.?

 

Are you saying that being gay is a choice and those people chose to sin?

[Soxbadger]

I agree with you, but the problem is people like SS and organizations like GLAAD b**** and whine and call people pretty awful things and then eventually get them fired or in trouble for it. All in the name of tolerance and acceptance mind you.

 

I dont have an answer for this. Im just tired of the b****ing and moaning. There are people in the world with real problems, there are real things to want to fix, yet we fixate on words.

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Are you saying that being gay is a choice and those people chose to sin?

 

Not sure if it's a choice. I tend to think it's not. That's why I don't judge people or treat them differently for it. It's up to God to do that eventually, if he chooses to.