The Republican Thread

[EvilMonkey]

I expected all of my liberal friends to be up in arms about a group calling for another human's death by hanging.

But the person whose death they called for is not 'one of them'.

[Balta1701]

I expected all of my liberal friends to be up in arms about a group calling for another human's death by hanging.

I just assume Peta says things to get a rise out of people because that's what they do. It's their marketing. If you want to market for them, I guess go ahead?

[StrangeSox]

The important thing is that liberals are the real villains here.

[Chisoxfn]

I've been on guided fishing trips to Mexico and Canada I assumed the guides were having me fishing legally. I guess I could have hired a lawyer first and had them check

 

I've been on guided excursion in National Parks, Wildlife Areas, again I trust the people taking my money that the program is legal.

 

So if, and that is a big IF, the hunter was not aware the hunt was illegal, and again my spidey senses tell me otherwise, I see him being somewhat innocent of the technical charges against him. The lack of quota in that region, the landowner not having a permit, etc. Even the ethics leaves me shaking my head, but the laws do allow for baiting lions (with proper permits). That exact same hunt could have been made legal with the proper paperwork.

 

Has anyone really paused to think about that? The hunt would have been legal with the proper permits and in a different area. Then no one would have been outraged?

Not really. This just highlights and makes it more newsworthy but I have objected to big game hunting like this for a long time. That said, have I ever put money where my mouth is, absolutely not. Other causes more dear to me. However, at the same time, I clearly choose not to partake in such events (then again, I don't have 55K laying under the pillow anyway so I have that barrier to participation in big game hunting too)

[EvilMonkey]

Anyone got any outrage left for the 30,00 other murders in Zimbabwe? Zimbabwean leader Robert Mugabe’s death squads have reportedly killed at least that many and buried in mass graves, They even had names too, just like the lion...

[Texsox]

I compare the hundreds of millions of cows, steers, pigs, chickens, fish etc that each year are factory raised and killed for our consumption with the few trophy hunts of animals in the wild. Morally and ethically I am more troubled by the process of artificially inseminating, raising them in pens, and killing them the cheapest way possible method of food production. I'm not bothered enough to stop eating meat, but I do feel that morally the vegetarians among us are probably on better ground.

 

 

[Texsox]

Anyone got any outrage left for the 30,00 other murders in Zimbabwe? Zimbabwean leader Robert Mugabe’s death squads have reportedly killed at least that many and buried in mass graves, They even had names too, just like the lion...

 

Or the humans being killed by capital punishment in our country as well?

[Chisoxfn]

Just cause their are other atrocities situations that are worse, doesn't mean that when something like this is brought up, you ignore it. And I obviously still eat meat, however, I am a huge proponent in the more humane (or I probably should say, slightly more humane) methods of raising them (free range).

[Texsox]

Just cause their are other atrocities situations that are worse, doesn't mean that when something like this is brought up, you ignore it. And I obviously still eat meat, however, I am a huge proponent in the more humane (or I probably should say, slightly more humane) methods of raising them (free range).

 

I agree. But I believe there is one common factor here that makes the comparison valid, how humans kill animals and why. Perhaps by exploring why and how we will better understand the situation and make changes if necessary.

[Jake]

The best argument I've heard about the whole raising money for conservation by shooting endangered animals business is this: the thing that is threatening these animals is the way that many of us humans regard them. We don't value their lives, well-being, habitat, etc. While we may get some money to throw at the problem by encouraging some legal, controlled hunting, we may in fact be making the actual cause of the problem worse. Hunting them trains us to continue believing that killing them is fine, morally speaking. Nobody wants the animals to be extinct but no one kill makes them extinct. But if every person can kill them for their own selfish reasons and feel no guilt, nobody will feel responsible for the collective well-being of the species. I killed one to put it on my wall sure, but that's just one and I paid a lot of money for it.

 

It's hard to say for sure what the best way to approach it is. People have made similar arguments about global warming/pollution/the environment and I think there is a good counterargument in that case: technological and policy solutions could very realistically be a relatively permanent solution to the human-induced CO2 emissions problem and if we can do that rather than try to change worldwide attitudes, we should go ahead and do it. But when we're talking about preserving a living species, it's an ongoing problem that seems very difficult to fix with some sort of magic bullet solution. If someone could convince me that using the market to save them could work, I'd be open to it even if I would continue to be fairly disgusted by the means (killing innocent animals for no reason beyond self-fulfillment/aggrandizement).

[Jenksismyhero]

The best argument I've heard about the whole raising money for conservation by shooting endangered animals business is this: the thing that is threatening these animals is the way that many of us humans regard them. We don't value their lives, well-being, habitat, etc. While we may get some money to throw at the problem by encouraging some legal, controlled hunting, we may in fact be making the actual cause of the problem worse. Hunting them trains us to continue believing that killing them is fine, morally speaking. Nobody wants the animals to be extinct but no one kill makes them extinct. But if every person can kill them for their own selfish reasons and feel no guilt, nobody will feel responsible for the collective well-being of the species. I killed one to put it on my wall sure, but that's just one and I paid a lot of money for it.

 

It's hard to say for sure what the best way to approach it is. People have made similar arguments about global warming/pollution/the environment and I think there is a good counterargument in that case: technological and policy solutions could very realistically be a relatively permanent solution to the human-induced CO2 emissions problem and if we can do that rather than try to change worldwide attitudes, we should go ahead and do it. But when we're talking about preserving a living species, it's an ongoing problem that seems very difficult to fix with some sort of magic bullet solution. If someone could convince me that using the market to save them could work, I'd be open to it even if I would continue to be fairly disgusted by the means (killing innocent animals for no reason beyond self-fulfillment/aggrandizement).

 

But that sort of ignores reality right? They're not going extinct because people are killing them just for s***s and giggles or even for sport. I'm sure for most animals the biggest problem there is habitat loss. But even with regard to human killings, there's a market out there for hides, ivory, skins, etc. We can pretend like that will just magically disappear, but we all know it won't, at least not 100%. Keep working on that angle, obviously, but an additional method to save these animals IS to allow some heavily regulated, for-profit hunting. It has to be done right. There needs to be control. But what they've found is that in some cases, MORE animals get protected and MORE people guard against poaching because they want to appeal to big game hunters (i.e., have animals to shoot, usually old, non-procreating animals). There are a few examples of big game ranges in Texas that are doubling and tripling the number of safari animals because with the price for the few that they allow to be killed, they are able to buy, bring over, save, and then multiply other animals. I think there's an antelope that went extinct in Africa but is thriving in Texas.

 

I was reading on some of this yesterday and a lot of conservation groups and even the US Wildlife service agrees that the big game hunting can and does help conservation efforts. The devils in the details though and how the system is set up and managed. As a principle, while it sucks that a beautiful animal will be killed, if it's saving even more, i'm all for it. I think very similarly with regards to zoos and their breeding programs. Yeah it sucks those animals are stuck in cages and small enclosures, but at least they're still around and even breeding.

 

 

[greg775]

Mia Farrow printed the dentist's address on Twitter. If somebody kills the dentist, won't Farrow feel a bit responsible? This is a bad situation but shouldn't the legal system take care of it? Or peaceful protests outside his office if those are legal, but do not hunt the dentist down as a mob and kill him for gosh sakes.

[Brian]

Guy on radio made a good point about Trump. He's the poll leader with 16 candidates but as those others drop out, the other supporters won't support Trump and he'll eventually fall a bit and probably out.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Brian

[Jake]

But that sort of ignores reality right? They're not going extinct because people are killing them just for s***s and giggles or even for sport. I'm sure for most animals the biggest problem there is habitat loss. But even with regard to human killings, there's a market out there for hides, ivory, skins, etc. We can pretend like that will just magically disappear, but we all know it won't, at least not 100%. Keep working on that angle, obviously, but an additional method to save these animals IS to allow some heavily regulated, for-profit hunting. It has to be done right. There needs to be control. But what they've found is that in some cases, MORE animals get protected and MORE people guard against poaching because they want to appeal to big game hunters (i.e., have animals to shoot, usually old, non-procreating animals). There are a few examples of big game ranges in Texas that are doubling and tripling the number of safari animals because with the price for the few that they allow to be killed, they are able to buy, bring over, save, and then multiply other animals. I think there's an antelope that went extinct in Africa but is thriving in Texas.

 

I was reading on some of this yesterday and a lot of conservation groups and even the US Wildlife service agrees that the big game hunting can and does help conservation efforts. The devils in the details though and how the system is set up and managed. As a principle, while it sucks that a beautiful animal will be killed, if it's saving even more, i'm all for it. I think very similarly with regards to zoos and their breeding programs. Yeah it sucks those animals are stuck in cages and small enclosures, but at least they're still around and even breeding.

 

I think you make good points, but I want to make clear that the premise is that those indirect causes of population loss like habitat loss would arguably also be a result for our low regard for the animals. With that said, I'm not closed off to other solutions that use the same negative impulses (greed) to try to extract some positive (intentional protection of the animals in some way, shape, or form)

[juddling]

Hillary Clinton had a department store on Fifth Avenue closed down so she could get a $600 haircut, or as she calls it, relating to the middle class

[Texsox]

People who actually spend time in the habitat that these animals live in have a huge stake in maintaining the habitat. I was a leave No Trace™ trainer and outdoor enthusiasts do our best to take care of the wilderness. It seems a little unfair to later be labeled as anti-wildlife and habitat.

[greg775]

Hillary Clinton had a department store on Fifth Avenue closed down so she could get a $600 haircut, or as she calls it, relating to the middle class

I saw a beautiful red car parked downtown tonight and a big Hillary bumper sticker on it. I really wanted the person to approach their car so I could calmly ask them why in the hell they'd put a Hillary bumper sticker on their car. It just said "Hillary" so obviously Hillary's camp is going for the "first female president" vote.

[Balta1701]

Wouldn't it be amazing if everyone who was so outraged by the killing send in $20 for lion preservation? Problem solved.

 

Upwards of 600 lions are legally killed each year in Africa. If this one didn't have a name, no one would care. Having said that the methods used are reprehensible. I can't believe anyone could take pride in that safari. What was illegal in this hunt is the lack of permits (money to the country). The fact that hundreds more will be legally killed IMHO should outrage more people than one lion with a human name.

 

As humans we take from nature what is valuable. We destroy wetlands to build homes. We destroy birds for wind power. The factory farms and processing that produce your cheeseburger are on a scale well beyond Cecil. But the millions of cows that will be slaughtered this year do not have names and cute marketing stories. Our most durable leather comes from old dairy cows that are not normally eaten by humans. We don't care, they don't have names. But we like the leather. Think about the sweet baseball mitts we all broke in. The beef didn't feed humans.

Ok, this topic has died down so it's not a total thread derailment if I do this, but my God I'm sick of hearing about the bolded. I biked past 3 or 4 dead birds on the street today, know how they died? Cars and buildings.

 

Birds slamming into buildings, birds slamming into cars, and birds being killed by cats happen at rates of 1000-10,000 times those of wind farms. Power generation that builds smokestacks and cooling towers kills plenty of birds, probably more than those killed by wind farms. Building a giant power plant in the desert away from a city and then running power lines for hundreds of miles across bird migration routes kills more than every wind farm in the country put together. Yet the only time we care about killing birds is when they're killed by windmills.

 

We should be smart about wind development. We shouldn't put a wind farm next to a bald eagle's nest. We should continue working on ways to make those safer using techniques to drive the birds away or keep them from running into the obstructions. But oh my god, 25,000 birds died from wind farms last year, and a billion died from house cats and half a billion died from slamming into buildings. WE MUST STOP THE WIND FARMS.

 

One might think that there's a well-financed industry wanting to use that as an excuse for their real goal. Apologies for the rant that doesn't fit in this thread.

[EvilMonkey]

Ok, this topic has died down so it's not a total thread derailment if I do this, but my God I'm sick of hearing about the bolded. I biked past 3 or 4 dead birds on the street today, know how they died? Cars and buildings.

 

Birds slamming into buildings, birds slamming into cars, and birds being killed by cats happen at rates of 1000-10,000 times those of wind farms. Power generation that builds smokestacks and cooling towers kills plenty of birds, probably more than those killed by wind farms. Building a giant power plant in the desert away from a city and then running power lines for hundreds of miles across bird migration routes kills more than every wind farm in the country put together. Yet the only time we care about killing birds is when they're killed by windmills.

 

We should be smart about wind development. We shouldn't put a wind farm next to a bald eagle's nest. We should continue working on ways to make those safer using techniques to drive the birds away or keep them from running into the obstructions. But oh my god, 25,000 birds died from wind farms last year, and a billion died from house cats and half a billion died from slamming into buildings. WE MUST STOP THE WIND FARMS.

 

One might think that there's a well-financed industry wanting to use that as an excuse for their real goal. Apologies for the rant that doesn't fit in this thread.

But oh my god, 32,000 PEOPLE died from GUNS last year, and a 1.5 million died from HIV and 585,720 died from cancer. WE MUST STOP THE GUNS.

 

One might think that there's a well-financed industry wanting to use that as an excuse for their real goal. Apologies for the rant that doesn't fit in this thread.

[Cknolls]

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015...a-socialist.php

 

 

Uhhhhh.....uhhhhhh...Republicans bad.....uhhhhhh.....uuuhhhhh big tent we are....uhhh..uhhhhhRepublicans bad..uuhhhhh...Abortions for all.....uhhh uhh Planned Prenthood is great...uhhh uhhhhh

 

lol

[Balta1701]

But oh my god, 32,000 PEOPLE died from GUNS last year, and a 1.5 million died from HIV and 585,720 died from cancer. WE MUST STOP THE GUNS.

 

One might think that there's a well-financed industry wanting to use that as an excuse for their real goal. Apologies for the rant that doesn't fit in this thread.

1.5 million died from AIDS in the U.S.?

[EvilMonkey]

1.5 million died from AIDS in the U.S.?

A billion birds dead from housecats? And no, that number is US only.

[greg775]

Cruz was on the radio late last night and said he's looking forward to debating Hillary. He said his parents filed for bankruptcy when he was in high school and he just paid off his student loans six years ago. Meanwhile the Clintons are rolling in dough. He also really attacked Hillary and Bill's ethics. Should be interesting if he's that vicious during the real debates. He's obviously a lock to get the nomination.

Edited July 31, 2015 by greg775

[StrangeSox]

why is ted cruz a lock to get the nomination?

[greg775]

why is ted cruz a lock to get the nomination?

He's the only electable republican.