The Republican Thread

[illinilaw08]

People like a circus show.

 

I actually would like to applaud Fox News, btw, and others should too. That was not a bunch of soft ball questions. They were hard on the candidates they were talking to. Trump especially. Questions about gay marriage, expansion of Medicare/Medicaid, Black Lives Matter, etc. and the answers were, from Kasich anyway, not extreme but quite moderate. And I liked how they backed off from the last decade and added "you know, like Reagan did" to appease the crazies.

 

I only watched bits and pieces and read more stuff today, but it seems like Kasich killed it, Trump was entertaining but terrible, Paul warned about Iran, Christie invoked 9/11 to score points, Bush seemed the most polished and everyone else was forgettable.

 

Interested to hear thoughts from the Republicans in here. This debate spent a lot of time on abortion - Walker and Rubio staked out some rather conservative positions there (opposing abortion even when the life of the mother is at risk). Are you concerned for purposes of the general election that two of the GOP frontrunners moved to the right on that issue?

 

Additionally, I know my biggest issue with Hillary Clinton is also an issue with Jeb Bush. Do you have any concerns re: potentially having the last three R presidents come from the same family?

 

I'll hang up and listen.

[NorthSideSox72]

Forgot to say this earlier, but I agree with illinilaw and others here... I really don't want to see another Bush or Clinton. Those kind of things scare me in a real democracy, not to mention it seems that much harder to see changes made when you go back to the same well.

 

[Chisoxfn]

Chris Wallace is a cartoon character. Meghan was unfair to Trump.

Unfair how. Those are real quotes that Donald has said and if you don't think that Hillary would use it against him, you are delusional. I loved how the commentators here got to the heart of some of the major concerns / appeal factors that exist with some of the candidates. Whether Trump and some of his comments or Bush (and his well last name) or Carson and his issues with foreign policy, etc. They asked real questions and contrary to what Caufield's nonsensical argument this was like no primary debate in the history of this country. And the questions that were asked were like none that I've seen in my lifetime of following this stuff.

[Chisoxfn]

Icahn announces he would accept the treasurer position if Trump were to be president. He'd clearly be the wealthiest treasurer ever.

 

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/07/icahn-sure-...ts-do-this.html

[greg775]

Unfair how. Those are real quotes that Donald has said and if you don't think that Hillary would use it against him, you are delusional. I loved how the commentators here got to the heart of some of the major concerns / appeal factors that exist with some of the candidates. Whether Trump and some of his comments or Bush (and his well last name) or Carson and his issues with foreign policy, etc. They asked real questions and contrary to what Caufield's nonsensical argument this was like no primary debate in the history of this country. And the questions that were asked were like none that I've seen in my lifetime of following this stuff.

I thought she said it with venom but maybe I'm sensitive.

[Chisoxfn]

I thought she said it with venom but maybe I'm sensitive.

I wouldn't blame her if she did either. This is a debate to see not only who your favorite republican candidate is, but also, what candidate is the best fit to run for president. What women in their right mind would want to vote for someone like Trump. Their is being PC and their is being disrespectful. I don't get offended often but with as much as that guy has said, when it comes to main campaign season and you are running against Hillary, how are you going to get any meaningful female vote if you are Trump?

 

Sure, their are people who would vote for Trump no matter what (cause they hate Clinton) but you would have a lot of republican female voters vote independent, not vote, or even vote for the democrat. That doesn't even factor in the other issues. Only reason Trump is where he is today is he's hit a chord with the American people regarding the overall frustration (and given his wealth and semi fame) people have regarding politics. I also think their are a lot of people voting in those polls (at least more then usual) who are listing his name because they want him to stay in the race for sheer entertainment value (maybe not a higher percentage but some sort of percentage).

 

But as a republican voter, I want to see how these candidates are going to react to tough questions and I like the fact that they had to address skeleton's in the closet, etc. Fiorina is going to be an interesting cat as I am sure she is going to take more heat now regarding her tenure at HP and it will be interesting how she handles that to the press. She absolutely nailed it though yesterday.

[greg775]

I wouldn't blame her if she did either. This is a debate to see not only who your favorite republican candidate is, but also, what candidate is the best fit to run for president. What women in their right mind would want to vote for someone like Trump. Their is being PC and their is being disrespectful. I don't get offending much but with as much as that guy has said, when it comes to main campaign season and you are running against Hillary, how are you going to get any meaningful female vote if you are Trump?

 

Sure, their are people who would vote for Trump no matter what (cause they hate Clinton) but you would have a lot of republican female voters vote independent, not vote, or even vote for the democrat. That doesn't even factor in the other issues. Only reason Trump is where he is today is he's hit a chord with the American people regarding the overall frustration (and given his wealth and semi fame) people have regarding politics. I also think their are a lot of people voting in those polls (at least more then usual) who are listing his name because they want him to stay in the race for sheer entertainment value (maybe not a higher percentage but some sort of percentage).

 

But as a republican voter, I want to see how these candidates are going to react to tough questions and I like the fact that they had to address skeleton's in the closet, etc. Fiorina is going to be an interesting cat as I am sure she is going to take more heat now regarding her tenure at HP and it will be interesting how she handles that to the press. She absolutely nailed it though yesterday.

 

Yes, excellent post. Trump is doomed cause no woman in her right mind would vote for him now.

[Balta1701]

Sure, their are people who would vote for Trump no matter what (cause they hate Clinton) but you would have a lot of republican female voters vote independent, not vote, or even vote for the democrat. That doesn't even factor in the other issues. Only reason Trump is where he is today is he's hit a chord with the American people regarding the overall frustration (and given his wealth and semi fame) people have regarding politics. I also think their are a lot of people voting in those polls (at least more then usual) who are listing his name because they want him to stay in the race for sheer entertainment value (maybe not a higher percentage but some sort of percentage).

You want to see me compliment a Republican? His point that all he had to do to get a politician to show up at his wedding or whatever he said was to give Hillary enough money in campaign contributions and she appeared was 100% right on target. Major, huge problem. Shouldn't happen. That's our system today, and it's even worse now than the time he was talking about it. What are we going to do about it other than only allow billionaires to run for President is a question I don't think was asked or answered, but he was 100% accurate in that being an indictment of the system itself.

[Jake]

I think Megyn Kelly and Chris Wallace's are FOX's best talent and they did a pretty good job. Only clunker of a question was the "word from God" bit, which Kelly clearly thought was stupid as well as she laughed her way through it and started tacking on extra topics as she went on.

[Chisoxfn]

On a sidenote, one day, I might look back on the Don more favorably. Depending on the outcome (and I'm probably way too optimistic), maybe both parties will be able to understand that the rhetoric needs to end and people need to work together here and work on real solutions.

 

Rand Paul further proofed how stupid politics are with that comment on the hug from Obama being just absurd. Look, you can disagree on the politics but lets not pretend or assume all of these people have to hate each other or be enemies.

[greg775]

Rand Paul further proofed how stupid politics are with that comment on the hug from Obama being just absurd. Look, you can disagree on the politics but lets not pretend or assume all of these people have to hate each other or be enemies.

Yes sir! Excellent post! But it is reality both sides hate each other and like I said earlier, having Hilly as president will only assure us of 8 years of hell. The Congress will fight EVERY ONE of her projects/bills. Every one. I mean it's stupid and silly like you said, but one thing is for sure. Hilly won't be able to change it. I truly believe the eight years of Hilly will ruin America. I think it's over if she wins. By the end of the eight year, there will be no revival. Coupled with eight years of Barack that's 16 years of economic misery. it's over.

[caulfield12]

Unfair how. Those are real quotes that Donald has said and if you don't think that Hillary would use it against him, you are delusional. I loved how the commentators here got to the heart of some of the major concerns / appeal factors that exist with some of the candidates. Whether Trump and some of his comments or Bush (and his well last name) or Carson and his issues with foreign policy, etc. They asked real questions and contrary to what Caufield's nonsensical argument this was like no primary debate in the history of this country. And the questions that were asked were like none that I've seen in my lifetime of following this stuff.

 

And almost none of the questions were answered...

 

Take away Trump and Christie, what was actually that interesting?

 

Just wait and see the tv ratings when Trump is no longer on the panel, they'll regress to mean. Rubio did well with his questions, Kasich as well...and Bush stumbled a bit about the Bloomberg charity involvement.

 

The same exact panel, minus Trump, had a forum on Monday night and nobody was paying attention.

Everyone simply wanted to see whether Trump would attempt to be serious or not, and who he would offend or piss off...not unlike watching Simon Cowell eviscerate a poor singer on American Idol.

 

The interest in the first Perot/Clinton/Bush debate was much higher, because for the first time in modern history a third party candidate had a real opening to actually win.

 

 

http://www.museum.tv/debateweb/html/histor...2/headlines.htm

 

The last Bush/Perot/Clinton debate had 91 million viewers, at a time when the U.S. population was lower.

 

Romney/Obama was around 67 million.

 

Palin-Biden 70 million.

Edited August 8, 2015 by caulfield12

[greg775]

And almost none of the questions were answered...

 

Take away Trump and Christie, what was actually that interesting?

 

Just wait and see the tv ratings when Trump is no longer on the panel, they'll regress to mean. Rubio did well with his questions, Kasich as well...and Bush stumbled a bit about the Bloomberg charity involvement.

 

The same exact panel, minus Trump, had a forum on Monday night and nobody was paying attention.

Everyone simply wanted to see whether Trump would attempt to be serious or not, and who he would offend or piss off...not unlike watching Simon Cowell eviscerate a poor singer on American Idol.

 

The interest in the first Perot/Clinton/Bush debate was much higher, because for the first time in modern history a third party candidate had a real opening to actually win.

 

Good comparison to Idol. Yes the ratings were ALL about Trump. His comments today about Ms. Kelly would have ended anybody else's campaign. We'll see if it ends Trump's. He said "blood was coming out of her eyes or blood was coming out of wherever." One organization dis-invited him from a Saturday function. Trump's camp has attacked the organizaion leader in saying he's weak and being politically correct is what is wrong with the USA. This was pretty graphic amazing comment though, about a woman's period and hormones affecting her behavior as debate host. I doubt it affects anything but like I said, anybody else in America would be buried by that comment. They'd meekly apologize then slink away forever. Kudos to Trump for always surviving his mouth!

[caulfield12]

Good comparison to Idol. Yes the ratings were ALL about Trump. His comments today about Ms. Kelly would have ended anybody else's campaign. We'll see if it ends Trump's. He said "blood was coming out of her eyes or blood was coming out of wherever." One organization dis-invited him from a Saturday function. Trump's camp has attacked the organizaion leader in saying he's weak and being politically correct is what is wrong with the USA. This was pretty graphic amazing comment though, about a woman's period and hormones affecting her behavior as debate host. I doubt it affects anything but like I said, anybody else in America would be buried by that comment. They'd meekly apologize then slink away forever. Kudos to Trump for always surviving his mouth!

 

 

It's only adding more time to the Trump clock...but it does create an interesting dynamic for Atlanta.

 

Do they all act as if Trump doesn't exist, attack in absentia...what's the strategy? Not sure if they'll know enough about Trump's post-debate polling numbers.

 

Hard to imagine Bush and especially Walker surging to the lead. Part of the original interest in Walker is the belief he will do well in Iowa due to hailing from a neighboring state. At some point, he's going to be expected to kickstart some momentum his direction. Hard to do that with the main focus remaining on Trump.

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/06/opinion/...ebate.html?_r=0

I will agree with one aspect...they were really poignant questions probing for gotcha responses. Other than savaging Trump and taking it easy on Rubio (his abortion answer doesn't stand up well with his record), it was better than most expected from Fox. It did get a defense of using bankruptcy laws and the Clinton to the wedding admission/bragadoccio, which makes her look complicit (along with the Clinton Foundation) with sleazy politics.

Edited August 8, 2015 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

I think this goes in the Republican thread since it's still your primary where you get to trash him, if he gets to the general then I'll drop stuff like this in the Dem thread.

"You could see there was blood coming out of her eyes," Trump told CNN's Don Lemon on Friday night. "Blood coming out of her wherever."

 

He then goes to twitter and takes anyone listening for suckers.

@realDonaldTrump

Re Megyn Kelly quote: "you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever" (NOSE). Just got on w/thought

[Y2Jimmy0]

Isn't the GOP nominee obviously Bush though? Seems that way to me. He'll stay more conservative than he actually is to appease the base and win the nomination and then he'll go more to the middle for the general election. Just a matter of time.

[Cknolls]

And almost none of the questions were answered...

 

Take away Trump and Christie, what was actually that interesting?

 

Just wait and see the tv ratings when Trump is no longer on the panel, they'll regress to mean. Rubio did well with his questions, Kasich as well...and Bush stumbled a bit about the Bloomberg charity involvement.

 

The same exact panel, minus Trump, had a forum on Monday night and nobody was paying attention.

Everyone simply wanted to see whether Trump would attempt to be serious or not, and who he would offend or piss off...not unlike watching Simon Cowell eviscerate a poor singer on American Idol.

 

The interest in the first Perot/Clinton/Bush debate was much higher, because for the first time in modern history a third party candidate had a real opening to actually win.

 

 

http://www.museum.tv/debateweb/html/histor...2/headlines.htm

 

The last Bush/Perot/Clinton debate had 91 million viewers, at a time when the U.S. population was lower.

 

Romney/Obama was around 67 million.

 

Palin-Biden 70 million.

 

Why are you comparing Presidential debates to Primary debates? Can you just get over your partisanship for just one minute to objectively look at even the smallest of metrics such as ratings? Seriously. We get it, you don't like R's. They don't walk on water like Narcissus. Noted.

[greg775]

Isn't the GOP nominee obviously Bush though? Seems that way to me. He'll stay more conservative than he actually is to appease the base and win the nomination and then he'll go more to the middle for the general election. Just a matter of time.

Yes. It'll be Bush vs. Clinton. Good call. This is a no brainer.

This Trump campaign is his way of getting more publicity (duh). He's a businessman through and through and lover of $$$ through and through. He's been trained that way; his mind is conditioned only that way. When it starts hitting his pocketbook TOO hard he gawn.

 

Yes of course he'd run for President if Trump-mania continued and he got the nomination. Overall he's going to ride this as long as he can keep getting pub for himself and then drop out. It's good publicity for him being a bad-ass, speaking his mind, but he knows there will be a time to put it to rest and return to making $$$.

 

Women don't like him much to begin with. They think he's slimy and don't like the hair. And even Trump knows you can't go around insulting women and win their vote. It's a matter of time. I hope he stays in for a while longer, cause he's funny, but it looks like Meghan is the journalist who got him. He could survive this but may not if debate organizers keep him out for the reasons given for keeping him out of this conservative conference today. We do know he'll go down fighting.

 

p.s. The reason I could never actually vote for the entertaining Donald is his position on his ties being made in Japan not the USA. He said it's horrible he makes his ties there but as a businessman he has to do it. He said he'd change the laws and bring those jobs here. Well, that shows what a rich prick he really is. Instead of taking a stand and making the ties in the USA and maybe, uh, encouraging other businessmen to do the same, he says he has to make them in Japan cause he's a businessman. Well, f*** u, Don. Make your ties here and be a good example for all businessmen.

 

By the way, that's another reason our country is ruined. We've let most all our products and clothing, etc, be made overseas. It's proof we are NOT the great nation we think we are. Al l this s*** should be made in the USA baby!!!! I know why it's not, but it's sad and it's ruined our country and our way of life. Sad.

Edited August 8, 2015 by greg775

[caulfield12]

Why are you comparing Presidential debates to Primary debates? Can you just get over your partisanship for just one minute to objectively look at even the smallest of metrics such as ratings? Seriously. We get it, you don't like R's. They don't walk on water like Narcissus. Noted.

 

Actually, probably for the first time in my life, I would probably vote Kasich over Clinton.

 

But I'm skeptical he will ever be allowed to emerge from the pack.

 

 

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/122478/...worst-nightmare

This article strongly supports the idea that too much GOP exposure/debating is bad and why...

Edited August 8, 2015 by caulfield12

[greg775]

Trump is so funny. He went on all the Sunday shows and refused to apologize. And he turned it around perfectly in saying only a "deviant" would think he was referring to Kelly having her period. He said he was going to say blood out the nose or ears.

He's the best. He's in the midst of his 15 minutes of fame (regarding the presidential election; I realize he's had way more than 15 minutes of fame in real life). People are going to tire of him and he is going to fall obviously.

You know, if he was truly smart he'd drop out the moment another Republican candidate starts to creep up to him in the polls. Drop out before the inevitable fall.

 

I guess it's possible those other candidates are so bad, so boring, so ordinary that he gets the nomination. But my gut is telling me people are LOVING somebody speaking his mind and not acting like a politician but ULTIMATELY Trump and his wild hairdo will start to bore a populace that likes to move on to the next great thing.

 

As far as today ... I think it's great he won again. He won't apologize and has turned the Kelly controversy around perfectly saying if you think he meant Kelly having a period you are "deviant" Brilliant!

Edited August 9, 2015 by greg775

[CrimsonWeltall]

He won't apologize and has turned the Kelly controversy around perfectly saying if you think he meant Kelly having a period you are "deviant" Brilliant!

 

It's brilliant to look like a total tool? Everyone knows he's lying.

[Jake]

A former Ron Paul campaign staffer who is already facing charges for allegedly buying the support of an Iowa state senator is now under investigation in connection with a rather odd burglary.

 

The man under fire for both the bribery and the robbery is named Dimitri Kesari and he was Deputy Campaign Manager for Ron Paul's 2012 campaign. He's been active elsewhere too, being involved with National Right to Work and for Mitch McConnell's most recent Senate campaign. This is to say that he's not just a Ron Paul guy, more of just a person trying to make a living in conservative politics. He is one of several who worked for Ron Paul's 2012 campaign who seem to have paid the aforementioned Iowa state senator named Kent Sorenson something like $70,000 in exchange for him switching his endorsement. The specifics of that case aren't so interesting beyond the fact that it's clear Sorenson accepted a big payment to cast his delegate vote for Paul after possibly having also taken money from the Bachmann campaign.

 

There's this other fellow named Jared Gamble, who also spent a lot of time at NRTW and worked in a smaller role than Kesari in the Paul 2012 and 2008 campaigns. He also worked for Kent Sorenson (the corrupt now-former Iowa state senator who took a bribe from the Paul campaign) in Sorenson's 2008 campaign and volunteered in some capacity for Rand Paul's campaign in 2010. He died in 2013 of causes that are unclear. His obit doesn't mention it, multiple tributes from Ron and Rand Paul don't say anything about it, and I've seen just a few nuggets about it on the web. I'll get back to that later.

 

Anyway, Jared Gamble's family was taken on vacation at some point in 2014 by unnamed people who are said to be people in the libertarian establishment that knew the kid. While the Gamble family was away, their house was burglarized. Just one item was taken: Jared's (presumably) out-of-use laptop. Well...that's a bit suspicious, ain't it? It sure seems like someone specifically arranged to get the family out of there so they could get rid of (or maybe just learn from?) this laptop. It's unclear what law enforcement has on Kesari to implicate him, but it is more than plausible there could be evidence of Kesari's role in the bribery or even other things on that computer.

 

It could have something to do with what Lee Stranahan, a longtime Breitbart reporter, has been writing about for a while. The gist of it is that via leaked emails, some of which are written by Gamble, Stranahan says there is evidence that NRTW was illegally doing campaign work on behalf of various politicians. When Rand Paul posted a tribute video to Gamble that is introduced by Sorenson who mentions Gamble's work for him at specific times, it was quickly pulled down which caught Stranahan's attention; he thinks it could be because Sorenson inadvertently admitted to employing Gamble at a time where he could not have legally have done so due to Gamble's concurrent work with NRTW, a lobbying group. I don't know about that, but there seems to be something to the NRTW emails. And no surprise, Kesari also worked for both Paul and NRTW so he could potentially have something to lose there.

 

That Gamble's death happened suddenly and was unexpected has been repeated by people close to him. Robert Wenzel, a libertarian columnist/radio host/blogger, said in passing that Gamble died of "unspecified respiratory complications." What appears to be an earlier version of that post shared on a libertarian discussion site says instead that Gamble died from AIDS. That could be why there isn't much talk about it, but it would be strange that it would be so unexpected. Anyway, I'm going to assume that there's no smoking gun in regards to how Gamble died.

 

Also, let's all take a second and think about what a big f***up this Sorenson guy is, who apparently can't open his mouth without also taking a bribe and/or admitting to having done something illegal.

[EvilMonkey]

I guess it's possible those other candidates are so bad, so boring, so ordinary that he gets the nomination. But my gut is telling me people are LOVING somebody speaking his mind and not acting like a politician but ULTIMATELY Trump and his wild hairdo will start to bore a populace that likes to move on to the next great thing.

\

I believe that is where most of his appeal is coming from. There is a big PC backlash and it is somewhat refreshing to see someone go without a filter. I believe most people want SOMETHING done about illegal immigration and everyone else is afraid to talk about it unless they are kissing the amnesty crowd's asses, so when he goes off about deporting everyone and electrified fances etc., people like that they are hearing something for a change, even if it isn't something the wholeheartedly agree on.

[greg775]

It's brilliant to look like a total tool? Everyone knows he's lying.

Not so fast, Crimson. When you have a perfect out as he does (saying you have to be deviant to think he meant her period) people can't really call him on this anymore. I mean no candidate wants to be called a deviant perv. I don't even think you'll hear much more about that. Writers won't go there anymore cause Trump has a perfect alibi. Ditto TV announcers.

 

I believe that is where most of his appeal is coming from. There is a big PC backlash and it is somewhat refreshing to see someone go without a filter. I believe most people want SOMETHING done about illegal immigration and everyone else is afraid to talk about it unless they are kissing the amnesty crowd's asses, so when he goes off about deporting everyone and electrified fances etc., people like that they are hearing something for a change, even if it isn't something the wholeheartedly agree on.

I agree Alpha. Personally I like hearing a guy with no filter (remember I LOVED Ozzie for the same reason; I love on that HBO show when Ozzie told the Marlins closer everybody including the owner and GM wanted him replaced and Ozzie was the only one who didn't think he was horses***). I do love the no filter.

 

However, I'm sure I'll eventually tire of Trump as will most every Republican (unless those other candidates remain boring and un-watchable). Like I said I don't like the fact he has his ties made in China and as a crutch says he does it cause he's a businessman. He said when he wins he'll get it to where companies will want to move back to the USA, including his companies. I say f*** you. You could make your ties here right now and brag about it to other companies and you'd be a great American. He knows it's wrong to make his ties in China.

To conclude ... as of now I love Trump being the un-PC contrarian. But deep down I do realize he's a bastard, cut-throat businessman and I won't vote for him.

[CrimsonWeltall]

Not so fast, Crimson. When you have a perfect out as he does (saying you have to be deviant to think he meant her period) people can't really call him on this anymore. I mean no candidate wants to be called a deviant perv. I don't even think you'll hear much more about that. Writers won't go there anymore cause Trump has a perfect alibi. Ditto TV announcers.

 

lol. It's not an out - it doesn't even make sense. He's continuing to get bashed for it, and rightly so. ...and do you even know what an alibi is?

 

I agree Alpha. Personally I like hearing a guy with no filter (remember I LOVED Ozzie for the same reason; I love on that HBO show when Ozzie told the Marlins closer everybody including the owner and GM wanted him replaced and Ozzie was the only one who didn't think he was horses***). I do love the no filter.

 

Why is it a positive thing to have no tact, no class, no shame, no ability to admit you're wrong, and be a liar?