RockRaines Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Basically his forkball has been s*** this month, which hs killed him. When he floats it like he has been, its a nothing pitch that gets hit hard quite a bit. His other stuff looks the same as it was when he was good earlier, he just doesnt have his out pitch, and continues to go to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon_44 Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Bring in AJ Burnett and move JC to the pen and spot start him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Well he ran into a pretty damn good hitting team yesterday. But I agree on the worries about him (becoming a 1 pitch pitcher, and his velocity being down), which were the problems he had last season. I'm hoping after some rest, he can get back a little to where he was earlier on, but I'm not overly optimistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Yesterdays game against the Rangers seemed to sum it all up. Off speed pitch after off speed pitch. I am concerned about Contreras too. How do we though as a first place club justify trading someone off our starting rotation with no one to step in for them? What contender would take Jose over let's say an AJ Burnett? In fact we might want AJ Burnett. What do we have to give up? Jose is in the tank and why is the $64K question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 03:53 AM) I will point one thing out. Contreras struggles mean the Sox will keep and even closer eye on Freddy Garcia's progress. You can bet your ass if Garcia shows a healthy arm and some decent velocity in a workout that Ozzie and Kenny will be on the horn and Garcia will be back in a Sox jersey making rehab starts down in AAA. That may very well be true, but don't you think a decision would have to come pretty soon? Garcia might like the Sox better than say the Tigers, but at what cost? We have heard this stuff before about the Ozzie factor when Latin players make their decisions, but it always seems to not pan out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 08:32 AM) That may very well be true, but don't you think a decision would have to come pretty soon? Garcia might like the Sox better than say the Tigers, but at what cost? We have heard this stuff before about the Ozzie factor when Latin players make their decisions, but it always seems to not pan out. Financially Freddy isn't going to be breaking the bank (unless he's already throwing in the 90's). I think as long as the Sox told him he's a starter if he pitches okay and shows that he's healthy (and the money is similar), than he'd sign here before he signed in Detroit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I agree with those saying that, if JC starts the 2nd half badly, we go to a AAA arm. This worked pretty good in 2005, though that was a different situation. Richard looks damn good, Haeger has been solid lately, Egbert has been putting it together recently... there are options. And actually, the guy who has been consistently good all season for Charlotte is Wes Whisler (who supposedly doesn't have major league starter stuff). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Why is Javy Vazquez not being worried about and not being replaced by AAA pitching? His season has been pretty similar to Contreras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 12:28 PM) I agree with those saying that, if JC starts the 2nd half badly, we go to a AAA arm. This worked pretty good in 2005, though that was a different situation. Richard looks damn good, Haeger has been solid lately, Egbert has been putting it together recently... there are options. And actually, the guy who has been consistently good all season for Charlotte is Wes Whisler (who supposedly doesn't have major league starter stuff). I think the over/under on Wes Whistler's ERA in the major leagues is 7.00. He has been getting some decent results at Charlotte this year, but if he's the Sox answer, they should just go to a 4 man rotation or try to stretch Masset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 11:32 AM) Why is Javy Vazquez not being worried about and not being replaced by AAA pitching? His season has been pretty similar to Contreras. 117 K's seem to help people forget. I can't believe you all want to see Hagar up. Just what this team needs, a guy who throws a ton of pitches who cannot locate them. I think Javy and Jose's problems are similar to Konerko's in that the solution is to let them figure things out. I also think that if our problem is the "4th and 5th" starters statistically speaking, its not a glaring need right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 12:32 PM) Why is Javy Vazquez not being worried about and not being replaced by AAA pitching? His season has been pretty similar to Contreras. He actually can throw more than 1 type of pitch and he's under the age of 50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Egbert and Haeger are on fire in Charlotte. I'd love to see either of them instead of Contreras but I'd be shocked if that happens. Be it the absurd extension we gave Contreras or the decision not to move him at all costs during the trade deadline last season, Kenny has shown that he's pretty dedicated to Jose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 06:32 PM) Why is Javy Vazquez not being worried about and not being replaced by AAA pitching? His season has been pretty similar to Contreras. Understood, but even when he has lost he has shown games where he kept the Sox in it. He lost once recently where he k'd 10 didn't he, but lost because he gave up two homers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 QUOTE (Jeremy @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 11:51 AM) Egbert and Haeger are on fire in Charlotte. I'd love to see either of them instead of Contreras but I'd be shocked if that happens. Be it the absurd extension we gave Contreras or the decision not to move him at all costs during the trade deadline last season, Kenny has shown that he's pretty dedicated to Jose. At the time the extension was given, I think you'd be hard pressed to believe he would have broken down this quickly. He was electric at the time of the deal and the financial figures were much smaller than what he would have gotten on the open market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Somebody needs to do an inquiry and find out how old Jose really is. If the guy is 48 he needs to be released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingandalongonetoleft Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I like knuckleballers. I don't think our catchers would be suited for them however. Opposing hitter gets a single and imagine the merry-go round that would take place on the basepaths... And as much as I'd like Charlie to succeed on the big stage, he could tear AAA up, but everytime he comes up we're down 6 before we know it. Stick to Contreras, he's done it before (this year too) he's capable of doing it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted July 14, 2008 Author Share Posted July 14, 2008 Egbert in July 14 IP, 5 H, 1 BB, 16 K, 0.00 ERA Both he and Haeger are on the 40 man, Richard is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 01:51 PM) At the time the extension was given, I think you'd be hard pressed to believe he would have broken down this quickly. He was electric at the time of the deal and the financial figures were much smaller than what he would have gotten on the open market. I think if you're smart and cautious, a pitcher at that age breaking down is always on your mind. It's not something that always happens gradually. What's always struck me as insane is that we gave Jose the extension with a full season remaining on his previous deal. You have to think that Kenny would've been hesitant to sign Contreras for a lot of money through his 37th birthday after watching him put up a 5.4 ERA in the second half of '06. At that point though, the deal was already done. Edited July 15, 2008 by Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I thought that it was insane to offer to Jose and not to Garland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 05:56 PM) I thought that it was insane to offer to Jose and not to Garland. What exactly do you mean by this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 07:04 PM) What exactly do you mean by this? I think that they should have extended Garland more years than for what they did, and allow Contreras to become a free agent. They were using their budgetary contraints at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 06:10 PM) IIRC, weren't the two pitchers offered basically identical deals? Yes, Garland agreed to a 3 year, $29M contract in December and 4 months later Contreras signed an identical deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 06:12 PM) I think that they should have extended Garland more years than for what they did, and allow Contreras to become a free agent. They were using their budgetary contraints at the time. They signed identical contracts but Contreras had another year left on his previous deal so his didn't kick in until '07. I don't think budgetary constraints had anything to do with giving Garland a 3 year contract, they and Garland just didn't want to go 4 years. If I'm Jon Garland I wouldn't take a 4 year deal, that's just 1 more year away from my BIG payday. Guarantee yourself $30M and hit free agency as a 29 year old - rather than a 30 year old - sounds good to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 03:12 PM) I think that they should have extended Garland more years than for what they did, and allow Contreras to become a free agent. They were using their budgetary contraints at the time. Kalapse, I would agree with you that it was possibly a bit early/premature to extend Jose for 3 more years (thus keeping him here for 4 years given his age). Still, I don't think anyone anticipated that his velocity would fall off that quickly (without any sort of injury). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubano Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jul 13, 2008 -> 05:56 PM) How do we deal with the nasty issue of him forgetting how to pitch. Do we send him to the DL with a phantom injury? Do we try someone in AAA? Go out in a trade? It's tough to have faith in a 40 year old. Deport him back to Cuba! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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