whitesoxfan101 Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 (edited) Everybody knows about his 17 errors, but he's starting to look lost at the plate too. For the simple point of question, I bring up the Los Angeles series. On June 24th and 25th, he missed games out there with "back spasms". At that point, he was .275/.348/.521/.869. As of today, Joe is down to .253/.325/.466/.792. Also, since June 19th, Joe has a grand total of one double and one home run. Is he just in a slump, an offensive regression to the means, or is his back bothering him at the plate now too? The more I think about this, the more I worry because Joe is useless right now if he can't hit because his defense has been pretty bad. It just seems like back problems carry on forever, and I wonder how well the surgery actually fixed things. Edited July 14, 2008 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 at least he has the all star break to rest up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 13, 2008 -> 11:56 PM) Everybody knows about his 17 errors, but he's starting to look lost at the plate too. For the simple point of question, I bring up the Los Angeles series. On June 24th and 25th, he missed games out there with "back spasms". At that point, he was .275/.348/.521/.869. As of today, Joe is down to .253/.325/.466/.792. Also, since June 19th, Joe has a grand total of one double and one home run. Is he just in a slump, an offensive regression to the means, or is his back bothering him at the plate now too? The more I think about this, the more I worry because Joe is useless right now if he can't hit because his defense has been pretty bad. It just seems like back problems carry on forever, and I wonder how well the surgery actually fixed things. Since June 26th: 16 games, 56 ABs, 1 HR, 1 2B, 4 RBI, .161/.226/.232/.458 I say we give him $65M right NOW! Catch him while his value is at it's lowest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Trade him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
---------- Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 (edited) Not that much when we have josh fields. Don't try to argue this years stats with me. Josh has been beat up. He will be fine with a little time. I think we have enough. Edited July 14, 2008 by Maxwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted July 14, 2008 Author Share Posted July 14, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (Maxwell @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 12:49 AM) Not that much when we have josh fields. Don't try to argue this years stats with me. Josh has been beat up. He will be fine with a little time. I think we have enough. I am talking about 2008 and 2008 only with this post. And with as beat up and in and out of the lineup in the minors as Josh has been, I wonder how well he'd do if we needed to call him up in the case of a Crede injury. Edited July 14, 2008 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 What's Swish hitting since June 26 ... just wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 01:58 AM) What's Swish hitting since June 26 ... just wondering. .246/.377/.491/.868 w/ 4 HR, 2 2B and 13 RBI over 57 ABs Pretty awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 02:58 AM) What's Swish hitting since June 26 ... just wondering. .246 12 R 4 HR 13 RBI 11 BB 14 K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 If Oz thinks Swish at first and BA/Wise platoon is better for the team, then why not trade Paulie to the Mets? I love Paulie but if it is time to run him out of town, why don't we make some kind of deal? Other teams make deals during the season. I prefer keeping Paulie but it is going to grow old seeing all the rips of the Sox legend the second half of the season. He's been so good in a Sox uniform I'd think he'd be exempt from such harsh criticism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxfan1986 Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Offensively, he's right around his career average. defensively he has been horrible though, just one more reason why he shouldn't be with the sox next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 02:38 AM) If Oz thinks Swish at first and BA/Wise platoon is better for the team, then why not trade Paulie to the Mets? I love Paulie but if it is time to run him out of town, why don't we make some kind of deal? Other teams make deals during the season. I prefer keeping Paulie but it is going to grow old seeing all the rips of the Sox legend the second half of the season. He's been so good in a Sox uniform I'd think he'd be exempt from such harsh criticism. why would Paul Konerko want to go to the Mets, and why would the Mets want Paul Konerko? That doesn't make much sense for either side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoesox Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 03:46 AM) why would Paul Konerko want to go to the Mets, and why would the Mets want Paul Konerko? That doesn't make much sense for either side. can we sticky what 10/5 means, so people stop mentioning this? i see someone mention trading paulie literally 3 times a week at least Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
---------- Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 01:39 AM) I am talking about 2008 and 2008 only with this post. And with as beat up and in and out of the lineup in the minors as Josh has been, I wonder how well he'd do if we needed to call him up in the case of a Crede injury. Well if crede keeps sucking and they decide its due to injury I expect to see josh. I expect josh to play well within another few weeks at the most. Edited July 14, 2008 by Maxwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Crede is in a slump. Baseball players do that from time to time. To say he is through, or that his back is the reason doesn't make any real sense - only to those that have been convinced since last year that this is the problem. If we made trades and other moves based on what someone has done over a month or less this entire team would have been gone. Joe is still doing a god job and I really think the fact he just isn't 100% comfortable is because of his being off the field for almost a year. It takes awhile to get the edge back and apparently others think he still has it or he wouldn't be an all-star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 10:21 AM) Crede is in a slump. Baseball players do that from time to time. To say he is through, or that his back is the reason doesn't make any real sense - only to those that have been convinced since last year that this is the problem. If we made trades and other moves based on what someone has done over a month or less this entire team would have been gone. Joe is still doing a god job and I really think the fact he just isn't 100% comfortable is because of his being off the field for almost a year. It takes awhile to get the edge back and apparently others think he still has it or he wouldn't be an all-star. I agree with what you're saying except for the bolded part. The season is half over now, he should be pretty well-settled into his groove by now. That excuse was maybe valid in April, but it's now July. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 13, 2008 -> 09:56 PM) Everybody knows about his 17 errors, but he's starting to look lost at the plate too. For the simple point of question, I bring up the Los Angeles series. On June 24th and 25th, he missed games out there with "back spasms". At that point, he was .275/.348/.521/.869. As of today, Joe is down to .253/.325/.466/.792. Also, since June 19th, Joe has a grand total of one double and one home run. Is he just in a slump, an offensive regression to the means, or is his back bothering him at the plate now too? The more I think about this, the more I worry because Joe is useless right now if he can't hit because his defense has been pretty bad. It just seems like back problems carry on forever, and I wonder how well the surgery actually fixed things. He's in a slump, but he showed some signs of coming out of it in the Texas series. You can see he was making some adjustments to his approach and working on staying back on the ball. You never know the effect the ASB break will have, but I think we'll see him have a very good finish to July. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 12:06 AM) .246/.377/.491/.868 w/ 4 HR, 2 2B and 13 RBI over 57 ABs Pretty awesome. Is that sarcasm? I just don't believe a guy can be doing awesome without having an average in the .270 to .275 range. Just my two sense. I love his periph's as they are very solid, but that average prevents him from being awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 12:38 AM) If Oz thinks Swish at first and BA/Wise platoon is better for the team, then why not trade Paulie to the Mets? I love Paulie but if it is time to run him out of town, why don't we make some kind of deal? Other teams make deals during the season. I prefer keeping Paulie but it is going to grow old seeing all the rips of the Sox legend the second half of the season. He's been so good in a Sox uniform I'd think he'd be exempt from such harsh criticism. Delgado has finally been hitting so the Mets wouldn't have any interest in a first baseman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 10:48 AM) Is that sarcasm? I just don't believe a guy can be doing awesome without having an average in the .270 to .275 range. Just my two sense. I love his periph's as they are very solid, but that average prevents him from being awesome. So if Swish goes 16 for 59 with 9 walks over a 16 game stretch rather than 14 for 57 with 11 walks it goes from being only a decent stretch to a great one? 16/59 = .271 AVG, 14/57 = .246 AVG. Batting average is an incredibly volatile statistic, swing at a 3-1 pitch that's out of the zone and have it fall in for a single in 2 ABs spaced 10 games apart rather than drawing the walk and suddenly your batting average for a 2 week stretch of games jumps 25 points. An .868 OPS and 13 RBIs over a 16 game stretch is pretty good for a versatile player like Nick Swisher, the absence of 2 singles doesn't bother me much when he's drawing a s*** load of walks but maybe I just value players like Nick Swisher over empty batting averages like Toby Hall and his .289. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 10:48 AM) Is that sarcasm? I just don't believe a guy can be doing awesome without having an average in the .270 to .275 range. Just my two sense. I love his periph's as they are very solid, but that average prevents him from being awesome. It doesnt really matter what you call it, it's the kind of performance that helps win games. I dont care a ton about what exact label we give it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 08:30 AM) So if Swish goes 16 for 59 with 9 walks over a 16 game stretch rather than 14 for 57 with 11 walks it goes from being only a decent stretch to a great one? 16/59 = .271 AVG, 14/57 = .246 AVG. Batting average is an incredibly volatile statistic, swing at a 3-1 pitch that's out of the zone and have it fall in for a single in 2 ABs spaced 10 games apart rather than drawing the walk and suddenly your batting average for a 2 week stretch of games jumps 25 points. An .868 OPS and 13 RBIs over a 16 game stretch is pretty good for a versatile player like Nick Swisher, the absence of 2 singles doesn't bother me much when he's drawing a s*** load of walks but maybe I just value players like Nick Swisher over empty batting averages like Toby Hall and his .289. I agree average is a volatile stat and I'm not going to say that Hall is better than Swisher (That would be ridiculous as you still have to look at peripherals). However, I would argue that those two singles would be more important than two walks. Lets say the single comes with runners on 2nd and 3rd. That single drives in two runs where as a walk wouldn't drive in any runs. Or if a runner is on 2nd, the single could drive in a run, where as the walk puts guys on 1st and 2nd. Bottom line I still think it is important for a player to get hits and I will not consider anyone a great player that hits under .250. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I think Joe's just in a bit of a slump right now, and the ASB couldn't have come at a better time. Unfortunately I'd rather prefer he had a few days off, but he'll be playing in the game, although I don't know if he'll actually be used or not. He'll get a good contract in the off-season due to his numbers, but with Fields waiting to take over, I don't think the Sox would pay the $9-10M a season that Crede could certainly get in free agency, maybe even more. And with Uribe and OC's contracts coming off the books, that's about $17M in open payroll the Sox can use to either sign a Rafael Furcal, or upgrade at an OF spot if they decide to use Ramirez at SS and Richar / Getz at 2B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 QUOTE (DBAH0 @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 12:51 PM) And with Uribe and OC's contracts coming off the books, that's about $17M in open payroll the Sox can use to either sign a Rafael Furcal, or upgrade at an OF spot if they decide to use Ramirez at SS and Richar / Getz at 2B. If the Sox were going a route other than Lexi-Richar next year I'd much rather they just kept Cabrera around than signing Furcal. I don't really think I like OC as a person, but damn can he play. It took me a while to warm up to him though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 we should worry about him like we did for : Swisher, Buerhle, Thome, OC, etc etc. Standard route: come up with who we should trade/replace him with, consider cutting him, and just standard complaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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