KW not likely to make impact deals

[Bubba Philips]

It's just crazy how far and how fast he fell.

wasn't it last year there was a rumor of a trade Abreu for Dye. this year that would have been a bad trade... i think if there was an even trade where KW could get a better value and the other team would agree i think he might pull the trigger.. a player playing under his capabilities who gets for another player playing under his capabilities.. say contreras, or konerko for another under performing pitcher or first baseman with both doing better in different scenery or having a better second half..

 

[witesoxfan]

He got Contreras about 2 minutes before the deadline in 2004.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing some small deals like dumping Massest, MacDougal, Uribe, and/or Hall for some minor leaguers.

 

What value are you going to get at all out of Masset, MacDougal, Uribe, or Hall that they won't provide at the MLB level? And why would you just dump them? Masset's been an OK swingman, Uribe is great insurance on the bench and is actually hitting now that he's sitting, and Toby Hall is hitting fairly well in the last year of his deal and is apparently well liked in the clubhouse.

 

MacDougal blows, so if you could dump him, that'd be fantastic...may as well keep everybody else though, it's not like their presence is really hurting anything.

[santo=dorf]

The Sox are paying about $2 million (assuming they take the buyout) for Hall's 76 AB's of .289/.341/.368/.710 soft stick and 192 innings of catching allowing 25 SB with 5 CS. Why are they so afraid to play him? Couldn't AJ use a little more rest down the stretch? Before anyone points to me of Hall's .406/.457/.531/.988 line against LHP, consider that it's only 35 PA's and he was helped by a 3 single game against Barry Zito.

 

I'd like to see a name that has been mentioned as being available in Miguel Olivo. His line is .255/.285/.465/.751 and against LHP it's .283/.338/.617/.955 and that's in 65 PA's. Almost double Hall's PA's against LHP and a good percentage of Tubby's entire PA's this season. In 282 innings caught, he has 10 SB's against and 9 CS.

 

Hall career against LHP: .282/.326/.405/.730 in 693 PA's

Olivo career against LHP: .291/.322/.534/.856 in 562 PA's

 

I think the defensive upgrade and the fact he puts up a better line in more PA's shows he can give AJ more rest during the stretch run would be worth making the move.

 

Send Hall back to the sunshine state. Marlins could use some "veteran leadership" (although Hall has mostly always played on loser teams.)

[santo=dorf]

Masset could be replaced by anybody. Contreras perhaps if Richard does well? Nick sucked in his one start and has a WHIP of 1.69. He's been very fortunate this year. Getting rid of Uribe would mean the Sox would have to acquire someone to fill the role of barely playing and jumping in when the team has an offensive explosion against Texas, so perhaps he could stick around.

[Controlled Chaos]

The Sox are paying about $2 million (assuming they take the buyout) for Hall's 76 AB's of .289/.341/.368/.710 soft stick and 192 innings of catching allowing 25 SB with 5 CS. Why are they so afraid to play him? Couldn't AJ use a little more rest down the stretch? Before anyone points to me of Hall's .406/.457/.531/.988 line against LHP, consider that it's only 35 PA's and he was helped by a 3 single game against Barry Zito.

 

I'd like to see a name that has been mentioned as being available in Miguel Olivo. His line is .255/.285/.465/.751 and against LHP it's .283/.338/.617/.955 and that's in 65 PA's. Almost double Hall's PA's against LHP and a good percentage of Tubby's entire PA's this season. In 282 innings caught, he has 10 SB's against and 9 CS.

 

Hall career against LHP: .282/.326/.405/.730 in 693 PA's

Olivo career against LHP: .291/.322/.534/.856 in 562 PA's

 

I think the defensive upgrade and the fact he puts up a better line in more PA's shows he can give AJ more rest during the stretch run would be worth making the move.

 

Send Hall back to the sunshine state. Marlins could use some "veteran leadership" (although Hall has mostly always played on loser teams.)

I would not remove Hall from this team right now. He knows his role, he plays it well. To me it's not just as simple as looking at some numbers and changing out some parts. There's definitely some 'glue' Hall provides in keeping this team together. As much as people want to believe that means nothing, I have to respectfully disagree. I think removing him for what amounts to a minor upgrade, if that, would be a bad move. I mean the only negative you have on Hall is he has less PA's...and it's only a negative because you're assuming if he had another 30, his line wouldn't stay as is.

 

[Harry Chappas]

I would not remove Hall from this team right now. He knows his role, he plays it well. To me it's not just as simple as looking at some numbers and changing out some parts. There's definitely some 'glue' Hall provides in keeping this team together. As much as people want to believe that means nothing, I have to respectfully disagree. I think removing him for what amounts to a minor upgrade, if that, would be a bad move. I mean the only negative you have on Hall is he has less PA's...and it's only a negative because you're assuming if he had another 30, his line wouldn't stay as is.

 

Hasn't Migel Olivo played for 5 different teams already? Think there is a reason for that as he is a tad young to be a journeyman catcher......

 

Not sure the Sox and he parted on the best of terms either.

 

You are right on with Hall, he seems to add an element that this team missed dearly last season in the clubhouse.

[TCQ]

When is the last time KW really made a big move at the actual July trade deadline..........Never, he got Garcia in June. KW does alot of talking and gives the old well I tried speech!

 

Um...Dude Carl Everett, cmon

[DABearSoX]

I hear some of you talking about KW trying to rebuild the farm system and not going for much this break, but I ask you this....

 

Why do we keep BA, Haeger, Getz, ETC around? We all know that they will never be everyday/week starters for the White Sox....

 

Might as well get something for them while they are still young rather than let them sit around in the minors like Dewayne Wise....

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I hear some of you talking about KW trying to rebuild the farm system and not going for much this break, but I ask you this....

 

Why do we keep BA, Haeger, Getz, ETC around? We all know that they will never be everyday/week starters for the White Sox....

 

Might as well get something for them while they are still young rather than let them sit around in the minors like Dewayne Wise....

 

Because they are worth more to us now (or potentially in the future) in the role they fill and the insurance they provide than anything we could realistically expect to get from anything they'd bring back in trades

 

[Dick Allen]

I hear some of you talking about KW trying to rebuild the farm system and not going for much this break, but I ask you this....

 

Why do we keep BA, Haeger, Getz, ETC around? We all know that they will never be everyday/week starters for the White Sox....

 

Might as well get something for them while they are still young rather than let them sit around in the minors like Dewayne Wise....

There's a couple of reasons. One, you don't know if someday you may need them because of injury or something else or if they just explode into pretty good players, and two, we have no idea what their market value is at this time. While there are lots of names being thrown around in the media, it doesn't mean those same players are available for guys the White Sox supposedly have no use. The majority of White Sox minor leaguers will never be starters for the White Sox. It doesn't mean getting rid of them all.

[DABearSoX]

Ok I get the point that we have no idea what they would bring in return (which I don't really believe with BA), but I think the insurance thing is a bunch of BS.

 

Getz: Uribe, Richar will be on the field before him

 

BA: They have enough faith in him to play Dewayne Wise before they will let him get some regular at bats....

 

Haeger: we have plenty of spot start capable pitchers in the minors. The Charlie project has been tried and upper management didn't seem to like it too much.

 

 

Its like taking out an insurance policy on an insurance policy...it just doesn't make much sense

[Dick Allen]

Ok I get the point that we have no idea what they would bring in return (which I don't really believe with BA), but I think the insurance thing is a bunch of BS.

 

Getz: Uribe, Richar will be on the field before him

 

BA: They have enough faith in him to play Dewayne Wise before they will let him get some regular at bats....

 

Haeger: we have plenty of spot start capable pitchers in the minors. The Charlie project has been tried and upper management didn't seem to like it too much.

 

 

Its like taking out an insurance policy on an insurance policy...it just doesn't make much sense

About 10 or 12 years ago, the White Sox had plenty of OF in the minors and some guy was struggling to hit much in the lower levels. He was subjected to the rule 5 draft. Nobody took him. A couple of years later, he was one of the top hitters in the league. Magglio.

 

Last night, Jenks was warming up in a 10-2 game with Linebrink on the mound. I'm pretty sure Ozzie didn't think Linebrink was going to give up 8 runs, but I think he may have questioned if he could make it through the inning physically. I think KW will get pitching.

[DABearSoX]

About 10 or 12 years ago, the White Sox had plenty of OF in the minors and some guy was struggling to hit much in the lower levels. He was subjected to the rule 5 draft. Nobody took him. A couple of years later, he was one of the top hitters in the league. Magglio.

 

 

If BA doesn't get regular at bats we will never know....and I doubt he will turn into a Magglio type hitter, I hope he proves us wrong though

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Ok I get the point that we have no idea what they would bring in return (which I don't really believe with BA), but I think the insurance thing is a bunch of BS.

 

Getz: Uribe, Richar will be on the field before him

 

Really? I'm not so sure Getz and Richar wont be in a battle for 2B next spring. Also, from accounts people have made here who follow our minors closely a lot like Getz as a nice utility player. The utility player is a niche that teams like to have. If we have one waiting in the minors who's young, can only get better and is cheap, i'd say that is fairly valuable. Especially considering no one would give you anything of significance for him.

 

BA: They have enough faith in him to play Dewayne Wise before they will let him get some regular at bats....

 

I'm a lot more comfortable knowing we have BA available to be a defensive replacement in CF on the bench than if we had no choice but having to rely on Swisher/Wise no matter what. Come September and/or the playoffs, that could prove to invaluable. Plus, trading him now wouldnt get you much. The potential is still there but his value is next to nothing. No point in trading him at the moment.

 

Haeger: we have plenty of spot start capable pitchers in the minors. The Charlie project has been tried and upper management didn't seem to like it too much.

 

 

Its like taking out an insurance policy on an insurance policy...it just doesn't make much sense

 

 

Well Richard goes today, but we have no idea what he'll give us. Egbert too has never thrown a big league inning. Masset has been pretty meh at spot starting. Russell isnt stretched out. Loaiza is throwing 80mph. Broadway has been awful since May in AAA. Ohka sucks. Not too sure i agree that we have plenty of capable spot starters there. Haeger did very well last September. Granted, they were meaningless games out of teh pen but seriously what do you expect to get in return for him? I'd say not much of value. However, he is a 24 yr old knuckleballer who has been pretty good the past 2 months. He has proven he can retire big league hitters (albeit in a very small sample size). He's only been throwing the knuckler a few years now. He will probably never develop into anything more than a #5 pitcher but since it costs us nothing to hang on to him, I'd rather not give him away.

 

[elrockinMT]

Excerpted from Fox Sports and Ken Rosenthal Article from 072308

 

What is Kenny doing?

Earlier this month, the White Sox contacted the Dodgers to gauge their interest in Cabrera, explaining that their desire to move him hinged on whether they could complete a separate deal.

 

That deal, from all indications, was a trade for Orioles second baseman Brian Roberts. The White Sox then would have moved Alexei Ramirez from second base to shortstop, his original position.

 

The Sox's plan went nowhere, but their general manager, Ken Williams, is always concocting new, grandiose ways to improve the club. Chances are, Williams will be quiet at the non-waiver deadline. But it's hardly certain.

 

The White Sox could use a leadoff man and perhaps some pitching help, but their biggest chip, Class AAA third baseman Josh Fields, is the long-term replacement for Joe Crede, who is a free agent at the end of the season.

 

If the White Sox traded Fields, they effectively would need to replace two infielders — Crede and Cabrera, who also is a free agent. Lots of luck: The free-agent market for third basemen is even weaker than the one for shortstops.

Edited July 23, 2008 by elrockinMT

[witesoxfan]

I'd say when the Sox run out of options for Haeger is when they'll deal him, so long as they don't have a spot on the roster for him (which I sincerely doubt). Same goes for Getz and company too, but they're different as they probably will have spots for those guys. And unless someone overpays for Anderson at his current value - meaning they are trading for a damn good 4th outfielder rather than a mediocre one - the Sox probably won't ever trade him. That's not to say Anderson doesn't have his value or he couldn't develop into a starting player at some point, as I'm a huge Anderson fan, but he is a fairly average 4th outfielder who happens to be able to cover a lot of ground. And I do want him starting in the outfield some time within the next 2 years.

[justBLAZE]

DETROIT -- Major League Baseball's non-waiver Trade Deadline sits just five days away, and there's a strong possibility the White Sox will enter August with basically the same roster they had in July.

 

There's an even greater possibility that White Sox general manager Ken Williams will be criticized for "not going for it all" where his American League Central-leading team is concerned by not making any sort of moves to fortify this already talented team.

 

"I'll just have to wear that," said Williams with a smile, speaking in the Detroit pressbox prior to Saturday's game. "I'm prepared to wear it."

 

When asked about the current trade climate, Williams described it as "awful." He quickly added that it was awful from the White Sox perspective. Basically, Williams isn't seeing anything that currently makes sense.

 

Competing for a championship has been Williams' target during his entire reign as the team's general manager. But since 2005, the White Sox have tried to build a champion, as well as turning over enough people on the roster to sustain success with younger, in-house components.

 

"That was the plan and that has to remain the plan, so that we can, year after year, be in the position we are in right now," Williams said. "If you do something that is contrary to that, without it absolutely being an impact player, then I think you are veering away from your plan. I don't think that's prudent to do.

 

"Obviously, the Yankees were able to get something done to help them, that seemingly helps them, and there have been some other deals. From our vantage point, I'm really not seeing anything that makes any sense. As a matter of fact, the things that are in front of us right now would do nothing but harm us for the present and the future."

 

So, Williams must bank on players such as Jose Contreras, Joe Crede and Scott Linebrink coming back at full strength once their stints on the disabled list come to an end. He also has to count on players such as Clayton Richard, Josh Fields, D.J. Carrasco and Ehren Wassermann getting the job done in the interim.

 

Williams will continue to explore all options, just as he does every day -- in or out of season. But he can count on hearing from a few naysayers if nothing materializes. It's expected criticism that doesn't seem to bother Williams.

 

"How can I take it seriously because no one understood what the plan has been up to this point, to get us to this point?" said Williams with a laugh. "So, all we can do is continue to do all the things we deem necessary to improve the ballclub and not worry about what everyone else thinks should be done.

 

"This is not fantasy baseball. I got a whole lot of good ideas to improve this ballclub, a whole lot of good ideas, but they're fantasy. They're not reality based."

 

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/artic...sp&c_id=cws

 

I'm gonna bump this up, in summary there are not many (if any) possible moves out there that make sense for this White Sox team.

[YASNY]

I'm gonna bump this up, in summary there are not many (if any) possible moves out there that make sense for this White Sox team.

 

I've kinda felt that way all along. I mean, sure, I'd love to improve the team. But I have heard one rumor that was either realistic or beneficial to this team. The Halladay rumor wasn't realistic since Toronto said they aren't interested in moving him. I'd rather stick with Floyd than Duchserererererer, and wouldn't even consider throwing Fields into that deal.

[Reddy]

without another SP we dont win this year. end of story.

[YASNY]

without another SP we dont win this year. end of story.

 

Who ... and for who?

[greg775]

without another SP we dont win this year. end of story.

 

Win what? Our division, the wild card or the big prize? If we get in the playoffs anything can happen. Like somebody asked, who are we gonna get? And for whom?? I'm stealing their line, but who do you want who is available and again, for whom? I can't imagine anybody excited about seeing Jose pitch for us again. But how do we upgrade?

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

without another SP we dont win this year. end of story.

 

I don't know about that. The DL time may help recharge Contreras, and he was a big part of our early success. He comes close to his early season form and that would be better than any possible pickup, especially when you look at what a Doc or Duch would cost. If not, we have a band of 5th starters who have stepped in and had respectable outings. Beyond that, playoffs offer a 4 man rotation, and the biggest question marks there are if Danks and Floyd have enough left to make it that far.

 

The bullpen is a whole hell of a lot more fragile than the SP situation. They've been good so far, but I still get nervous about Linebrink, Dotel and Jenks. I thought I heard Thornton was hurting a bit as well. For the roles they have, Masset (but moreso) Thornton have the most calming effect on me. Other than that, currently we have Wasserman called up. *That* is an issue. Logan and Carrasco don't exactly lull me to sleep either. This is probably the scarring effect of last year's calfpen speaking, but if there's a trade to be made, I'd like to see a relief pitcher before anything else.

Edited July 27, 2008 by ChiSox35

[witesoxfan]

without another SP we dont win this year. end of story.

 

I'm not only going to disagree, I'm going to say that (I believe) you are flat out wrong. The Tigers have no rotation to speak of at all, outside of Verlander, and the Twins rotation features like 3 first year MLB starters.

 

Personally, I think the Sox are going to walk away with the division, and I could honestly even see them backing into a division title...I could see Detroit trying to gather whatever pieces they have and making a run for a starting pitcher at the last second to prevent the Sox from countering, but the only type of starting pitcher I see the Sox needing right now is a 6th starter. I've said that all along. Anybody that thinks the Sox "weakness" is the starting pitching, I feel, is wrong. I see Floyd and Danks struggling a bit down the stretch, but I think Vazquez will rebound, Contreras will pitch well enough, and Buehrle will remain very solid down the stretch. I'd let Richard remain on the roster for the remainder of the year, letting him get about 5 starts between the time Contreras gets back from the DL and the end of the year, taking a start every now and then from Floyd and Danks, and in the meantime, working in blowouts.

 

I've no idea what Liriano's slider looks like right now, but seeing as how that's the pitch that made him throw his arm out in the first place, I can't imagine it's nearly as good anymore. Jimmy might not be able to catch up to 97 coming from the left side, but Quentin and Dye sure as hell can.

 

No, I don't think the Sox need to make a trade. I think KW will make one, because he has to fuel an addiction and a streak of making atleast one move a year, but I don't think it's necessary.

[Reddy]

I'm not only going to disagree, I'm going to say that (I believe) you are flat out wrong. The Tigers have no rotation to speak of at all, outside of Verlander, and the Twins rotation features like 3 first year MLB starters.

 

Personally, I think the Sox are going to walk away with the division, and I could honestly even see them backing into a division title...I could see Detroit trying to gather whatever pieces they have and making a run for a starting pitcher at the last second to prevent the Sox from countering, but the only type of starting pitcher I see the Sox needing right now is a 6th starter. I've said that all along. Anybody that thinks the Sox "weakness" is the starting pitching, I feel, is wrong. I see Floyd and Danks struggling a bit down the stretch, but I think Vazquez will rebound, Contreras will pitch well enough, and Buehrle will remain very solid down the stretch. I'd let Richard remain on the roster for the remainder of the year, letting him get about 5 starts between the time Contreras gets back from the DL and the end of the year, taking a start every now and then from Floyd and Danks, and in the meantime, working in blowouts.

 

I've no idea what Liriano's slider looks like right now, but seeing as how that's the pitch that made him throw his arm out in the first place, I can't imagine it's nearly as good anymore. Jimmy might not be able to catch up to 97 coming from the left side, but Quentin and Dye sure as hell can.

 

No, I don't think the Sox need to make a trade. I think KW will make one, because he has to fuel an addiction and a streak of making atleast one move a year, but I don't think it's necessary.

 

it's all about the 30 inning rule. w/ danks and floyd never having pitched this many innings in their career, adding more than 30 innings to their totals from last year begins to heighten the risk for injury and collapse. we'll be FORCED to do that to both if we make a playoff run. I don't see their production holding up. And now we're all just "hoping" that Vaz and Jose rebound. And we know what a big game pitcher Vaz is. Having Richard around will help a bit. yeah, we could still win the division, but personally i would much rather win the whole thing than settle for that. the Angels rotation will be sick, and the Sawks will also be solid. Yeah, ok, obviously in the playoffs anything CAN happen - that's true. I just hate to think we're gonna rely on the production of two young kids having their breakout seasons and who are already regressing, a 50 year old, and a mental case. A Derek Lowe or Duchsherer would help tremendously. And yes, we DO have the pieces in O-Cab, Fields, Poreda, to make something happen.

[iamshack]

I've no idea what Liriano's slider looks like right now, but seeing as how that's the pitch that made him throw his arm out in the first place, I can't imagine it's nearly as good anymore. Jimmy might not be able to catch up to 97 coming from the left side, but Quentin and Dye sure as hell can.

 

Not to hijack the thread, but from what I understand, the Twins have let Liriano go back to the same arm slot he had when he injured himself, after originally forcing him to use a new arm slot when he first started rehabbing the arm. Since he has made the switch, he has begun dominating games again, and you can see a clear distinction in his numbers. His k's went way up, and his era and hits allowed came way down. His slider, as you referred to, which was once the most devastating pitch in baseball, is still being thrown, but they are trying to get him to work more off his fastball.

 

Obviously this is a huge risk, both for the Twins and Liriano's career. But this is what he wants and this is what produces the dominant numbers he is capable of. It just remains to be seen whether he will blow out the arm again or not.