Fields and Floyd for a SP?

[Buehrle>Wood]

I think some are over-valuing Floyd in this thread.

 

It doesn't get much more valuable than a 25 year old starting pitcher who is having the year he is having.

[AWhiteSoxinNJ]

It doesn't get much more valuable than a 25 year old starting pitcher who is having the year he is having.

 

Have you seen the two years before this one like I have watching Philly a lot. It's great that he is doing well and it's been a total surprise, but let's not get carried away here.

[Jake]

My feeling is that if we acquire a starter, it needs to be an addition, not a replacement. Not nearly as much is gained if we have to take Floyd out of the rotation. I would trade anyone but the top 4 in our rotation. I want a newly acquired starter to bump Contreras out of the rotation, not to replace Floyd who has been one of our strongest starters and leave the mess that is known as Jose Contreras in to lose ballgames.

[elrockinMT]

I think some are over-valuing Floyd in this thread.

 

Maybe. But, when you consider his age, the fact he has won 10 games this year and his future potential I wouldn't be so quick in wanting to trade him for a rent-a-player that's for sure. We have to be concerned about the team future as far as pitchers are concerned too. I would have thought Contreras would be trade bait, but with his injury I am sure we wouldn't get much in rteturn at this point.

[beck72]

My feeling is that if we acquire a starter, it needs to be an addition, not a replacement. Not nearly as much is gained if we have to take Floyd out of the rotation. I would trade anyone but the top 4 in our rotation. I want a newly acquired starter to bump Contreras out of the rotation, not to replace Floyd who has been one of our strongest starters and leave the mess that is known as Jose Contreras in to lose ballgames.

I could see another SP being added that would let the sox give extra days off/ skip starts for everyone except Mark. Both Danks and Gavin haven't completed a full year of 30 MLB starts. And Jose and Vaz seem to be wearing down. If one of those 4 SP's needed to put in the bullpen, or go the 15 day DL for an extended rest, the sox would have the new SP to pick up the slack. Then, in the offseason, the sox could listen to offers for Jose, Floyd, or Javy.

 

 

[AWhiteSoxinNJ]

My question is, say we get a SP without giving up Floyd/Danks/Javy/Buehrle, what do we do with Count? Banish him to the bullpen? He hasn't had THAT bad of a season. Just curious as to what you guys think.

[rangercal]

And I will be riding shotgun. I just dont think thats all its gonna take

 

I'll chip in for gas.

[BaseballNick]

My question is, say we get a SP without giving up Floyd/Danks/Javy/Buehrle, what do we do with Count? Banish him to the bullpen? He hasn't had THAT bad of a season. Just curious as to what you guys think.

 

The worst/most inconsistent pitcher goes to the pen and becomes the long reliever. It seems like pitchers are dropping like flies of late, so the more arms the merrier. KW knows the status of the team's health and he's going to do everything in his power to field a team capable of winning it all this year. I don't doubt that for one second.

[WCSox]

My feeling is that if we acquire a starter, it needs to be an addition, not a replacement. Not nearly as much is gained if we have to take Floyd out of the rotation.

 

Bingo.

 

I would trade anyone but the top 4 in our rotation.

 

I would include Vazquez as part of a package for somebody like Halladay, but he obviously doesn't have nearly as much value as somebody like Floyd or Danks.

 

 

[witesoxfan]

Have you seen the two years before this one like I have watching Philly a lot. It's great that he is doing well and it's been a total surprise, but let's not get carried away here.

 

Yeah, pitchers struggle. You apparently can't put the past behind you and understand that pitchers can change and grow and become good after they have figured it out under different coaching.

 

His peripherals are much better, his ERA is good, he's pitching deep into ball games, and his stuff is pretty damn good too...yet for whatever reason you can't let go of the past.

 

Gavin Floyd is a good starting pitcher and will probably be a solid #2-4 from this point on for 5-10 years. But because he struggled for a couple years, he's going to struggle for all of time. That makes sense, because that's not what pitchers like Halladay do.......

[Jake]

My question is, say we get a SP without giving up Floyd/Danks/Javy/Buehrle, what do we do with Count? Banish him to the bullpen? He hasn't had THAT bad of a season. Just curious as to what you guys think.

 

Yep, he goes to the pen. He's been hurt, he's been wildly inconsistent, and just isn't pitching like a starter for a world championship team.

 

The worst/most inconsistent pitcher goes to the pen and becomes the long reliever. It seems like pitchers are dropping like flies of late, so the more arms the merrier. KW knows the status of the team's health and he's going to do everything in his power to field a team capable of winning it all this year. I don't doubt that for one second.

 

Definitely do not need addition by subtraction as our pitchers drop like flies.

 

Bingo.

 

 

 

I would include Vazquez as part of a package for somebody like Halladay, but he obviously doesn't have nearly as much value as somebody like Floyd or Danks.

 

I also would be willing to part with Vazquez, but seeing as he has little value for the trade market, we'll be stuck with him and wouldn't get enough in return if we did get rid of him. I would trade Contreras for a good batboy though.

 

[RockRaines]

With the exception of Halladay, Floyd is better than any other pitcher on the market.

[AWhiteSoxinNJ]

Yeah, pitchers struggle. You apparently can't put the past behind you and understand that pitchers can change and grow and become good after they have figured it out under different coaching.

 

His peripherals are much better, his ERA is good, he's pitching deep into ball games, and his stuff is pretty damn good too...yet for whatever reason you can't let go of the past.

 

Gavin Floyd is a good starting pitcher and will probably be a solid #2-4 from this point on for 5-10 years. But because he struggled for a couple years, he's going to struggle for all of time. That makes sense, because that's not what pitchers like Halladay do.......

 

I never said that he could never turn it around, all I am saying is that I need to see more than 2/3 of a season to proclaim him a great pitcher for the next 5-10 years like you have.

[Steve9347]

Floyd + Fields for Halladay...

 

I think both sides would be happy with that one. The Jays get two guys who contribute immediately to the big club with pretty decent ceilings, the White Sox get a SP who cements them as World Series contenders.

 

I actually would really like this.

Edited July 26, 2008 by Steve9347

[santo=dorf]

If that's all it would take to get Halladay, KW should make that deal before Toronto could change their minds. Floyd has been good this season, much better than I thought he would ever be, but........................even though he's kept damage at a minimum recently for the most part, he hasn't really cruised in a game for a while even though he's posted some very good outings. There's still something there that makes me think the wheels could fall off any moment. Maybe its just me with Floyd, but unlike a guy like Buerhle who when you look at him on the mound, his face looks like he could be playing in a softball game at a company picnic, Floyd always looks like a guy who is testifying before Congress with something to hide. Halladay is an ace, a perrenial CY Young candidate. If those guys are available and the price isn't insane, you grab them.

Exactly.

 

Let's not forget he's still out of options.

[WCSox]

Floyd + Fields for Halladay...

 

I think both sides would be happy with that one.

 

Until next year when Uribe signs a 3-year deal to play 3B for the Sox. The Sox can't continue trading away young, cheap, effective talent for high-priced veterans on the down-slopes of their careers. They're going to need quality young players who don't cost an arm and a leg in the years to come.

 

This trade would also fail to address the Sox's need for an EXTRA starter, with Contreras' health up in the air and Danks being limited in September.

 

Edited July 26, 2008 by WCSox

[Heads22]

Until next year when Uribe signs a 3-year deal to play 3B for the Sox. The Sox can't continue trading away young, cheap, effective talent for high-priced veterans on the down-slopes of their careers. They're going to need quality young players who don't cost an arm and a leg in the years to come.

 

This trade would also fail to address the Sox's need for an EXTRA starter, with Contreras' health up in the air and Danks being limited in September.

 

I'd hardly say Halladay is on the downslope.

[Balta1701]

I'd hardly say Halladay is on the downslope.

His best pitch is the 2 seamer right? I'd certainly hope it's still sloping downwards if we're talking about trading for him. A sinker that doesn't sink isn't that useful.

[BaseballNick]

With the exception of Halladay, Floyd is better than any other pitcher on the market.

 

Floyd still hasn't shown me that he can pitch over defensive mistakes (of which there are plenty on this team). I'd feel much more comfortable with a more proven commodity down the stretch. That said, I really don't know who is on the market. I guess that's for Kenny to find out.

[Gregory Pratt]

Yeah, pitchers struggle. You apparently can't put the past behind you and understand that pitchers can change and grow and become good after they have figured it out under different coaching.

 

His peripherals are much better, his ERA is good, he's pitching deep into ball games, and his stuff is pretty damn good too...yet for whatever reason you can't let go of the past.

 

Gavin Floyd is a good starting pitcher and will probably be a solid #2-4 from this point on for 5-10 years. But because he struggled for a couple years, he's going to struggle for all of time. That makes sense, because that's not what pitchers like Halladay do.......

 

Jesus. One game at a time, man.

[iamshack]

Yeah, pitchers struggle. You apparently can't put the past behind you and understand that pitchers can change and grow and become good after they have figured it out under different coaching.

 

His peripherals are much better, his ERA is good, he's pitching deep into ball games, and his stuff is pretty damn good too...yet for whatever reason you can't let go of the past.

 

Gavin Floyd is a good starting pitcher and will probably be a solid #2-4 from this point on for 5-10 years. But because he struggled for a couple years, he's going to struggle for all of time. That makes sense, because that's not what pitchers like Halladay do.......

 

Great post. Halladay was once a piece of crap too, you know...

[Chisoxfn]

I would glady take Roy Halladay in that package. Sox would have to give up more though or at least I figure they would. Duscherer is not worth Floyd straight up, let alone him and Fields (I think Floyd's long term career with Sox better than what Dusch's would be).

 

However, to get Halladay, you are talking about an ace for another couple years whose under contract and gives the Sox an even better top 4 of the rotation (one which you could easily afford to ease another rookie into the 5th spot to replace Contreras).

[iamshack]

Jesus. One game at a time, man.

 

Well, I agree with your general point, but you've been riding Gavin since he got here....wasn't he possibly the "worst pitcher in major league history" last year at some point?

 

Give the kid some credit where credit is due...

[Soxbadger]

Ive always been a Floyd fan, and last night really impressed me. He did not have his best stuff, he had some bad defensive plays, and he still only gave up 4 runs. i think hes turned the corner and will be a consistent pitcher from here on out.

 

Id be fine with Halladay type talent for him (because when you think about what we traded for Floyd its insane to think we turned him into Halladay) but at the same time unless we are getting something that solid id pass.

[Balta1701]

Ive always been a Floyd fan, and last night really impressed me. He did not have his best stuff, he had some bad defensive plays, and he still only gave up 4 runs. i think hes turned the corner and will be a consistent pitcher from here on out.

 

Id be fine with Halladay type talent for him (because when you think about what we traded for Floyd its insane to think we turned him into Halladay) but at the same time unless we are getting something that solid id pass.

Especially with both Crede and Contreras now out...there aren't a whole lot of players in baseball that I'd be willing to move Floyd and Fields for.

 

Halladay is on the level where you'd have to say yes. If you're going to move guys now who are covering key spots for the big league team though, you need to feel like you're coming out of the deal a winner. Which means you need something like Halladay. Something big.