Bulls ink Deng!

[Balta1701]

Pax almost HAS to make a trade.

I'd remove the "Almost". He literally has to make a trade. There's just not enough minutes for the guys he has right now. Even if all he does is dump guys off for expiring contracts, he has to do something. He has 2 PF's who could be 35 minutes a game guys, 2 SF's who could be 35 minutes a game guys, 1 C, 2 PG's (One of whom is a #1 draft pick and 1 of whom has a $11 mil a year contract) both of whom should be 40 minutes a game guys, and 3 SG's who could be 30 minutes a game + guys. And out of that, he has 5 or 6 guys who are young enough that they need to play minutes to develop, but only 1 contract that expires this year and 1 contract that expires in 2010.

[lostfan]

I'd remove the "Almost". He literally has to make a trade. There's just not enough minutes for the guys he has right now. Even if all he does is dump guys off for expiring contracts, he has to do something. He has 2 PF's who could be 35 minutes a game guys, 2 SF's who could be 35 minutes a game guys, 1 C, 2 PG's (One of whom is a #1 draft pick and 1 of whom has a $11 mil a year contract) both of whom should be 40 minutes a game guys, and 3 SG's who could be 30 minutes a game + guys. And out of that, he has 5 or 6 guys who are young enough that they need to play minutes to develop, but only 1 contract that expires this year and 1 contract that expires in 2010.

That's where I was going with that, I just didn't have time to elaborate (what the hell was I doing up at that time anyway?). There's no way the Bulls open the season with this roster.

[Chisoxfn]

I wonder if we could deal Gordon and Hinrich to NY for David Lee...

That would be a terrible deal, value wise.

[Chisoxfn]

I don't think you know what you're talking about. He refused to sign the 5-50 deal that was offered by the Bulls, as did Ben Gordon. Even after a down year, Deng still averaged 17 points and 6.3 boards despite being injured most of the season. I have a feeling he'll be averaging 22/8 this year.

Deng has a tremendous attitude, has continued to work out and improve and had a down season and still put up pretty good numbers. The kid is going to be a very good player and I still believe that him and Sefolosha will be the best Bulls long-term (yes, thats right, I'm not slurping Derrick Rose).

[nitetrain8601]

Deng has a tremendous attitude, has continued to work out and improve and had a down season and still put up pretty good numbers. The kid is going to be a very good player and I still believe that him and Sefolosha will be the best Bulls long-term (yes, thats right, I'm not slurping Derrick Rose).

 

Um, Deng has not improved his game in the least bit. In fact, he's gone backwards. At least in his rookie season, he hit 3's. All Deng does is move great without the ball. He can't post up, he doesn't hit 3's anymore, he jacks up that stupid long 2, 1 foot inside the 3 point line on fastbreaks. He doesn't rebound at a good clip. And the guy does not have the mentality to lead or takeover games. 6 years for 71 million is a ton for someone with that many problems considering he's not even a big man. Now if he meets incentives, the fact that it can go all the way up to 81 million is flat out ridiculous because he's not that good of a player.

 

As for Gordon, he thinks he deserves at least Deng money. I agree. At least he is dynamic offensively. He's been the team's best player for the past 4 years. And when he's stepped on the court, he's had the most impact. And despite what everyone thinks, the Bulls have done the best while Ben was starting, not on the bench. His defensive has gone from very poor to above average(according to Skiles), and he still put up arguably better numbers than Deng last year in a terrible offensive system while being injured as well. Put Gordon in GSW's system, and I guarentee he averages 25ppg. In fact, look at the top 25 efficient scorers, and Ben is on that list with nothing but all-stars. If you let Gordon go, you're not going to be replacing him with something as good and that's a fact. If he was a two way player, he would be considered untouchable.

 

Oh yeah, last but not least, the Bulls were the #1 rated defense 3 years in a row before last year. We got 1 playoff round win. What this team needs is balance, not super defense at every position(which despite what many think, Deng isn't great defensively as he's pretty slow for his position. Taking away your best offensive player by far, you're really moving far away from offense. Especially you're only guy who can hit an open 3.

[nitetrain8601]

Some news and notes as well, GSW is working deeply with Atlanta on a S&T for Josh Smith and the Bulls are looking to trade Cedric Simmons, Andres Nocioni and a 1st round pick for Brad Miller. Sac wants Noah to replace Simmons.

 

And Bulls had a chance to trade Hinrich to Denver for Camby and thought about it too long. Denver presented them the idea, Bulls were taking too long, so Denver made the trade with LA.

[DBAHO]

Some news and notes as well, GSW is working deeply with Atlanta on a S&T for Josh Smith and the Bulls are looking to trade Cedric Simmons, Andres Nocioni and a 1st round pick for Brad Miller. Sac wants Noah to replace Simmons.

 

And Bulls had a chance to trade Hinrich to Denver for Camby and thought about it too long. Denver presented them the idea, Bulls were taking too long, so Denver made the trade with LA.

You gotta feel sorry for Hawks fans. Just when it looks like they're on their way back to respectibility, they blow it all because they didn't want to re-sign their RFA's.

 

Smith with the Warriors would eb fun to watch. Would involve Al Harrington would be my guess and some future firsts at least. Probably not enough though.

 

Don't know if Miller would be the best fit for the Bulls, as he's pretty soft defensively and pretty injury prone. For that deal though, I think they have to pull the trigger.

 

Also on Kirk, Denver has that trade exception they can use if they want. Bulls could always deal Kirk for a future 1st and a good young talent, and then re-sign Gordon if they wanted to.

[nitetrain8601]

You gotta feel sorry for Hawks fans. Just when it looks like they're on their way back to respectibility, they blow it all because they didn't want to re-sign their RFA's.

 

Smith with the Warriors would eb fun to watch. Would involve Al Harrington would be my guess and some future firsts at least. Probably not enough though.

 

Don't know if Miller would be the best fit for the Bulls, as he's pretty soft defensively and pretty injury prone. For that deal though, I think they have to pull the trigger.

 

Also on Kirk, Denver has that trade exception they can use if they want. Bulls could always deal Kirk for a future 1st and a good young talent, and then re-sign Gordon if they wanted to.

 

True, but I just noted both because if it came down to both Miller and Camby, I pick Camby all the way.

 

Josh Smith trade involves Al Harrington, Stephen Jackson, Perovic anda 1st round pick.

[lostfan]

Did you seriously say Ben Gordon's defense was above average? He is easily the worst defender on the team. Unless being caught 8 feet out of position and leaving your guy wide open behind the 3 point line counts as "good defense" because you had the presence of mind to hurry back and fail to block it.

[nitetrain8601]

Did you seriously say Ben Gordon's defense was above average? He is easily the worst defender on the team. Unless being caught 8 feet out of position and leaving your guy wide open behind the 3 point line counts as "good defense" because you had the presence of mind to hurry back and fail to block it.

 

Sorry but Scott Skiles, seems to disagree with you. And it's against PG's as well.

[lostfan]

Sorry but Scott Skiles, seems to disagree with you. And it's against PG's as well.

What's Scott Skiles doing these days?

[Balta1701]

Don't know if Miller would be the best fit for the Bulls, as he's pretty soft defensively and pretty injury prone. For that deal though, I think they have to pull the trigger.

Frankly, I have no problem with Miller for either of those reasons...because both of them would lead to him being a reasonable guy to sit on the bench and think about how his contract expires while Noah and Tyrus are out getting minutes.

[Balta1701]

What's Scott Skiles doing these days?

Coaching the Bucks?

[lostfan]

Coaching the Bucks?

I don't care what Scott Skiles says - Ben Gordon is a horses*** defender. He can say what he wants, but I see the same games he does.

 

Gordon is an elite shooter and the only current Bull that's good to drop 35 on any given night but that's literally all he's good for. You have to get him the ball on every other possession with an open shot because he can't create for himself, and you can't rely on him to get the ball to anybody else either. It's like all he does is wait for the ball.

Edited July 30, 2008 by lostfan

[Kyyle23]

I dont remember Skiles ever talking about Gordon being an elite defender ever. I remember him talking about Kirk that way, but never Ben

[nitetrain8601]

What's Scott Skiles doing these days?

 

Um, coaching in the NBA.

[nitetrain8601]

I dont remember Skiles ever talking about Gordon being an elite defender ever. I remember him talking about Kirk that way, but never Ben

 

I didn't say elite, I said above average. He's said it a couple of times in post game interviews when he's guarding PG's. He's also been quoted in the Sun-times before talking about how Ben really had terrible technique defending his rookie year but has really improved to the point where he's not a liability and actually is above average guarding the 1 spot.

[Kyyle23]

I didn't say elite, I said above average. He's said it a couple of times in post game interviews when he's guarding PG's. He's also been quoted in the Sun-times before talking about how Ben really had terrible technique defending his rookie year but has really improved to the point where he's not a liability and actually is above average guarding the 1 spot.

 

His size will always put him at a disadvantage IMO, and thats why I dont believe he will ever be more than average at best

[lostfan]

Um, coaching in the NBA.

He's not coaching the Bulls or Ben Gordon. And frankly, I don't care what a coach says about his own players, especially Scott Skiles. He is the guy who would do things like play Ben Wallace all 48 minutes as a "reward" for doing something like scoring 10 points the previous game and let Joakim Noah sit on the bench. I don't want or need him telling me what to think.

[SoxFan1]

I didn't say elite, I said above average. He's said it a couple of times in post game interviews when he's guarding PG's. He's also been quoted in the Sun-times before talking about how Ben really had terrible technique defending his rookie year but has really improved to the point where he's not a liability and actually is above average guarding the 1 spot.

I firmly trust that you don't watch any Bulls games then. He's a turn stile who has no clue what to do when a screen comes.

 

I also wouldn't really call Brad Miller injury prone, at least not as much as he used to be. 72+ games in 2 of the last 3 seasons.

[DBAHO]

I didn't say elite, I said above average. He's said it a couple of times in post game interviews when he's guarding PG's. He's also been quoted in the Sun-times before talking about how Ben really had terrible technique defending his rookie year but has really improved to the point where he's not a liability and actually is above average guarding the 1 spot.

Problem is, how many times is he going to defend against 1's though? You'd need a big PG who could guard SG's, otherwise Gordon would be abused on the low post by bigger SG's all day long.

[DBAHO]

True, but I just noted both because if it came down to both Miller and Camby, I pick Camby all the way.

 

Josh Smith trade involves Al Harrington, Stephen Jackson, Perovic anda 1st round pick.

That's a major win for the Warriors. Harrington isn't in their plans, Jackson's going to be a 6th man after the Maggette acquisiton, and Nelson never plays rookies.

 

PG: Ellis / Williams

SG: Ellis / Maggette

SF: Maggette / Smith

PF: Smith / Wright

C: Biedrins

 

That's a very nice looking lineup that would score a TON.

[SoxFan1]

That's a major win for the Warriors. Harrington isn't in their plans, Jackson's going to be a 6th man after the Maggette acquisiton, and Nelson never plays rookies.

 

PG: Ellis / Williams

SG: Ellis / Maggette

SF: Maggette / Smith

PF: Smith / Wright

C: Biedrins

 

That's a very nice looking lineup that would score a TON.

I know Monta Ellis is good...but damn!

[ZoomSlowik]

Haha, that whole rant was funny. A few problems with it:

 

1) You're ripping Deng for "only being able to do one thing" when the only thing Gordon can do is shoot. Nevermind that Deng is a good mid-range shooter and is light-years better as a finisher (allowing him to shoot for a higher percentage), and contributes at worst average rebounding and defense at the position.

 

2) You made it sound like Deng dropping the 3's from his arsenal was a bad thing. He hit .5 a game at a 26.5% clip, that's horrendous. He gradually became a much more efficient scorer by eliminating a shot he can't make from his repetoire. Would you really rather have him jacking up shots that he can't make at a respectable rate?

 

3) You make it sound like the fact that he can "guard" point guards is a good thing. It grossly limits the Bulls' choices with the lineups because he's nothing close to a true PG and can't effectively guard 2-guards. So instead Hinrich gets in foul trouble guarding at a spot he really can't or they have to play him with Hughes or Thabo and drastically hurt the ball-handling. That sounds like a good way to start Rose off too, make him defend at a spot where his size and strength are no longer huge assets.

 

4) Unless his jumpers are dropping Gordon is totally useless. He can't finish on the drive, he can't defend and he can't handle the ball. He usually can't even score when we really need it because people have figured out that if they trap him he's going to screw up. His game is extremely limited, though he is very good at that one aspect.

 

 

I wouldn't GIVE Gordon away because they do need his scoring, but giving him that kind of money long-term is asanine and would seriously bite the Bulls in the ass. They have enough pieces to trade that they can bring in another reasonably capable scorer and still deal with it. It's not like this team is terribly likely to go anywhere as currently constructed anyways.

[lostfan]

Haha, that whole rant was funny. A few problems with it:

 

1) You're ripping Deng for "only being able to do one thing" when the only thing Gordon can do is shoot. Nevermind that Deng is a good mid-range shooter and is light-years better as a finisher (allowing him to shoot for a higher percentage), and contributes at worst average rebounding and defense at the position.

 

2) You made it sound like Deng dropping the 3's from his arsenal was a bad thing. He hit .5 a game at a 26.5% clip, that's horrendous. He gradually became a much more efficient scorer by eliminating a shot he can't make from his repetoire. Would you really rather have him jacking up shots that he can't make at a respectable rate?

 

3) You make it sound like the fact that he can "guard" point guards is a good thing. It grossly limits the Bulls' choices with the lineups because he's nothing close to a true PG and can't effectively guard 2-guards. So instead Hinrich gets in foul trouble guarding at a spot he really can't or they have to play him with Hughes or Thabo and drastically hurt the ball-handling. That sounds like a good way to start Rose off too, make him defend at a spot where his size and strength are no longer huge assets.

 

4) Unless his jumpers are dropping Gordon is totally useless. He can't finish on the drive, he can't defend and he can't handle the ball. He usually can't even score when we really need it because people have figured out that if they trap him he's going to screw up. His game is extremely limited, though he is very good at that one aspect.

 

 

I wouldn't GIVE Gordon away because they do need his scoring, but giving him that kind of money long-term is asanine and would seriously bite the Bulls in the ass. They have enough pieces to trade that they can bring in another reasonably capable scorer and still deal with it. It's not like this team is terribly likely to go anywhere as currently constructed anyways.

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