Bulls ink Deng!

[nitetrain8601]

With the right Offense and a --------------------->True PG

 

 

Deng,Gordon,Rose is what I want to see.

 

Make it happen Pax!

 

I think in all honesty, this is our best hope. I wish we could trade Hughes and Gooden for a bunch of capspace so we could avoid the cap. In a perfect world

 

PG-Rose/Hinrich

SG-Gordon/Hinrich

SF-Deng/Selfolosha

PF-Thomas/Nocioni

C-Noah/Gooden

 

I know that won't happen, but I wish it would.

[MHizzle85]

You may have confused him with Hinrich.

He didn't say dribble, penetrate, give the ball up and foul out of frustration.

[ZoomSlowik]

You did not just compare Ricky Davis to Ben Gordon, did you? I won't take that seriously.

 

And how do you explain Joe Smith and Andres Nocioni doing better scoring wise than Deng? It's because no one has faith in him in the 4th and he doesn't like that stage. Luol doesn't try to do it because his mentality isn't set to do so. Let's put it this way, how many times have you ever seen Deng demand the ball? How many times have you seen him post up a smaller player and call for the rock, just once? None. How many times have you seen him blow past a player? Never. And to say Gordon is a catch and shoot player is saying Deng is Richard Hamilton without the 3 point shot.

 

http://www.82games.com/0708/07CHI9A.HTM

Deng had 67% of his shots assisted last year. The year before, 69% of his shots were assisted. Gordon on the other hand, 52% this year, 45% of his shots assisted in 06-07. The reason why I included 06-07 was because that was both their best year. So there is no way you can tell me Gordon is a catch and shoot player and then not going to mention that Deng is more of an abuser of getting his shots set up by others.

 

Subjectively Gordon is a better player, but you can't look at their production on paper and tell me with a straight face that Gordon blows away Ricky Davis. He's another guy that averages in the high-teens, shoots in the low-to-mid 40's from the field, and outside of 06/07 has a PER in the 15-16.5 range. Sure, Gordon is a much better shooter, but the overall package/contributions doesn't really look RADICALLY different.

 

Nocioni and Smith also took more shots than Deng in those situations, that's going to happen when you miss like 20 games and/or play less in a few others due to injuries. Again, I'm not arguing that Deng is a monster in the clutch, but that's one of your MAJOR tenants of why Gordon is so great. I also never said that Deng wasn't a catch and shoot player, and comparing him to Hamilton doesn't exactly help your cause because he's been a better player than Gordon. Deng does actually SCORE when he gets the ball inside though, unlike Gordon and his horrendous 47.5% on inside shots that's in the bottom 10 in the league. Deng is a decent but not stellar scorer and that's only part of his game, the ONLY thing that Gordon does that's decent is score, so he should probably do some of those things if he's supposed to be this great offensive option that deserves to get paid over 12 mil a year.

Edited July 31, 2008 by ZoomSlowik

[nitetrain8601]

Quoted from the Collective Bargaining Agreement:

 

 

 

 

So assuming they signed him to the same 6-70 as Deng got his value would be just over 10 mil, making him a highly viable trade candidate.

 

Prior to July 1st is the key. Basically, that would be a for when players are extended, and then traded within the same year. They have to wait until after Dec 15th, IIRC, but after that, is when that would be applicable. I'll try to get the section on sign and trades for you.

[SoxFan1]

You may have confused him with Hinrich.

I agree that Hinrich over dribbles the ball, but he doesn't dribble it and jack up 3's. How many times has Gordon stood at the top of the arc in a game winning/tying situation, crossed over 4 times, pump faked 7 times only to get the ball stolen/blocked resulting in an easy layup on the other end sealing a Bulls loss. He's AWESOME in the 4th quarter unless it's the final shot. He forces it way too much knowing he can't create a shot on his own. The only game winning shot I ever making him remember was the floater against the Knicks like 3 seasons ago.

[SoxFan1]

I think in all honesty, this is our best hope. I wish we could trade Hughes and Gooden for a bunch of capspace so we could avoid the cap. In a perfect world

 

PG-Rose/Hinrich

SG-Gordon/Hinrich

SF-Deng/Selfolosha

PF-Thomas/Nocioni

C-Noah/Gooden

 

I know that won't happen, but I wish it would.

If that's your perfect world, ie Tyrus and Gordon both starting, then I don't like your world at all.

[rangercal]

You may have confused him with Hinrich.

 

yeah no s***. too much gordon hate/ hinrich love has fans confusing the 2.

[rangercal]

If that's your perfect world, ie Tyrus and Gordon both starting, then I don't like your world at all.

I love his world. Hopefully it's pax's world too.

[whitesoxfan101]

Hughes can drop 35 on a team any given night, and will actually play very good defense. Gordon is gone, and for good reason.

 

Larry Hughes is a career 41 percent shooter, and just under 30 from three point range while a pedestrian 75 from the line. He isn't scoring 35 unless his arm gets sore from all the shots he took that evening. I agree with keeping Hughes over Gordon, but let's not go overboard with Larry's ability.

[SoxFan1]

I love his world. Hopefully it's pax's world too.

Then you love inconsistency, athleticism, bad defense, and headaches as well.

[nitetrain8601]

Subjectively Gordon is a better player, but you can't look at their production on paper and tell me with a straight face that Gordon blows away Ricky Davis. He's another guy that averages in the high-teens, shoots in the low-to-mid 40's from the field, and outside of 06/07 has a PER in the 15-16.5 range. Sure, Gordon is a much better shooter, but the overall package/contributions doesn't really look RADICALLY different.

 

Nocioni and Smith also took more shots than Deng in those situations, that's going to happen when you miss like 20 games and/or play less in a few others due to injuries. Again, I'm not arguing that Deng is a monster in the clutch, but that's one of your MAJOR tenants of why Gordon is so great. I also never said that Deng wasn't a catch and shoot player, and comparing him to Hamilton doesn't exactly help your cause because he's been a better player than Gordon. Deng does actually SCORE when he gets the ball inside though, unlike Gordon and his horrendous 47.5% on inside shots that's in the bottom 10 in the league. Deng is a decent but not stellar scorer and that's only part of his game, the ONLY thing that Gordon does that's decent is score, so he should probably do some of those things if he's supposed to be this great offensive option that deserves to get paid over 12 mil a year.

 

Deng is a decent rebounder and not much else. He doesn't do anything dynamically. Deng is never going to start a run for you, defensively or offensively. He'll give you his 17ppg and 6rpg and that's it. You could never really expect much more. Now the question at hand is that worth potentially up to 80 million to you? Not to me. I wouldn't mind Gordon getting paid as much as Deng because I think they're equally as important. Thing is, I don't think either are worth at least 71 million dollars a year. Neither are that good, but Gordon is just as good and just as important as Deng.

[rangercal]

Then you love inconsistency, athleticism, bad defense, and headaches as well.

 

no. I want to see what they could do in a new system. I also want to see what Tyrus could do if he actually PLAYS.

[SoxFan1]

Deng is a decent rebounder and not much else. He doesn't do anything dynamically. Deng is never going to start a run for you, defensively or offensively. He'll give you his 17ppg and 6rpg and that's it. You could never really expect much more. Now the question at hand is that worth potentially up to 80 million to you? Not to me. I wouldn't mind Gordon getting paid as much as Deng because I think they're equally as important. Thing is, I don't think either are worth at least 71 million dollars a year. Neither are that good, but Gordon is just as good and just as important as Deng.

I'm pretty sure Luol is a top 5 rebounder in the league as a SF if he would have qualified. We should only expect 17 and 6 out of him? I guess we can throw out the 19 and 7 season he had in 06/07? I guess it's too much to ask of him to develop into a guy who can give you 22 and 8? Come on...

[nitetrain8601]

I agree that Hinrich over dribbles the ball, but he doesn't dribble it and jack up 3's. How many times has Gordon stood at the top of the arc in a game winning/tying situation, crossed over 4 times, pump faked 7 times only to get the ball stolen/blocked resulting in an easy layup on the other end sealing a Bulls loss. He's AWESOME in the 4th quarter unless it's the final shot. He forces it way too much knowing he can't create a shot on his own. The only game winning shot I ever making him remember was the floater against the Knicks like 3 seasons ago.

 

Hinrich dribbles the ball for about 20 seconds a game, then ends up passing to whoever's right next to him for a contested jumper. It's usually Gordon, but I've seen Deng and Wallace get the ball in that situation too. And Gordon gets triple teamed at the end of games because everyone else knows, he's the only one who wants to make that shot and the only one capable of hitting it. His coach knew this and so do others. Now with Rose, hopefully he could help the Bulls get creative on offense, so he could drive, if he gets doubled, he could pass to Gordon for an open 3 or Deng for an open mid range shot or throw to Tyrus on an open lob.

[SoxFan1]

no. I want to see what they could do in a new system. I also want to see what Tyrus could do if he actually PLAYS.

He'll give you about 9 and 9 as a PF, take way too many jump shots that he can't hit, get into foul trouble, demand the ball and sulk all game when he doesn't get it, play mediocre defense with an extraordinary block every once in a while, have a goaltending here and there, and then throw down a spectacular dunk, causing more people, such as you, to ignore his lack of ANY skill and only look at his amazing athleticism and hope for great potential.

[nitetrain8601]

I'm pretty sure Luol is a top 5 rebounder in the league as a SF if he would have qualified. We should only expect 17 and 6 out of him? I guess we can throw out the 19 and 7 season he had in 06/07? I guess it's too much to ask of him to develop into a guy who can give you 22 and 8? Come on...

 

Name me guys who have substantially improved their 5th year into their careers from their previous year. Only guys I could think of are guys who didn't play much their first couple of years, were injured the year before. Guys like Gerald Wallace. Guys don't improve as much as you think they do.

[rangercal]

He'll give you about 9 and 9 as a PF, take way too many jump shots that he can't hit, get into foul trouble, demand the ball and sulk all game when he doesn't get it, play mediocre defense with an extraordinary block every once in a while, have a goaltending here and there, and then throw down a spectacular dunk, causing more people, such as you, to ignore his lack of ANY skill and only look at his amazing athleticism and hope for great potential.

 

soxfan1adamus .

 

 

 

But yeah, I love Tyrus just for his spectacular dunks! Let's bring in Gerald Green in too while we're at it! I'm just another idiot fan!

Edited July 31, 2008 by rangercal

[SoxFan1]

Hinrich dribbles the ball for about 20 seconds a game, then ends up passing to whoever's right next to him for a contested jumper. It's usually Gordon, but I've seen Deng and Wallace get the ball in that situation too. And Gordon gets triple teamed at the end of games because everyone else knows, he's the only one who wants to make that shot and the only one capable of hitting it. His coach knew this and so do others. Now with Rose, hopefully he could help the Bulls get creative on offense, so he could drive, if he gets doubled, he could pass to Gordon for an open 3 or Deng for an open mid range shot or throw to Tyrus on an open lob.

I agree with you that Gordon would be a valuable scorer between Rose and Deng, but you're still overrating him. He gets triple teamed because they know he's going to get the ball, sure, but a great player would make something happen and pass it out to the open man. You're telling me Deng is capable of hitting a wide open jump shot throughout the entire game except for in the 4th quarter? An open jumper is an open jumper, plain and simple. By my count, a triple team on Gordon means that TWO guys are open. Dish the rock son.

[SoxFan1]

soxfan1astraumas .

 

 

 

But yeah, I love Tyrus just for his spectacular dunks! Let's bring in Gerald Green in too while we're at it! I'm just another idiot fan!

Would you care to elaborate on why you like Tyrus then? We know he's athletic, but what else? And don't say because he'll strive with Rose as a PG. Thats pure speculation that both HE and ROSE will pan out.

 

So, give me a reason why Tyrus should be starting at PF?

[nitetrain8601]

I'm pretty sure Luol is a top 5 rebounder in the league as a SF if he would have qualified. We should only expect 17 and 6 out of him? I guess we can throw out the 19 and 7 season he had in 06/07? I guess it's too much to ask of him to develop into a guy who can give you 22 and 8? Come on...

 

Oh yeah, at least for total rebounds, since I can't find RPG, Deng isn't in the top 15 for SF's.

 

http://basketballreference.com/leaders/lea...g=n&yr=2007

[rangercal]

Would you care to elaborate on why you like Tyrus then? We know he's athletic, but what else? And don't say because he'll strive with Rose as a PG. Thats pure speculation that both HE and ROSE will pan out.

 

So, give me a reason why Tyrus should be starting at PF?

 

He hasn't had a chance to be a bust. Put him in the starting 5, 1 full year and see what he does. There was a reason scouts projected him as a to 5 pick, right? What were Tracy Mcgrady or Jermaine O'neal before they panned out? Not much more than what Tyrus is now.

Edited July 31, 2008 by rangercal

[SoxFan1]

Oh yeah, at least for total rebounds, since I can't find RPG, Deng isn't in the top 15 for SF's.

 

http://basketballreference.com/leaders/lea...g=n&yr=2007

Remember that part where he missed 20 games?

[nitetrain8601]

I agree with you that Gordon would be a valuable scorer between Rose and Deng, but you're still overrating him. He gets triple teamed because they know he's going to get the ball, sure, but a great player would make something happen and pass it out to the open man. You're telling me Deng is capable of hitting a wide open jump shot throughout the entire game except for in the 4th quarter? An open jumper is an open jumper, plain and simple. By my count, a triple team on Gordon means that TWO guys are open. Dish the rock son.

 

I'm saying if Deng gets it, he's going to pass it to someone else and let them take the shot or hope someone finds a shot for someone else as evident that Noc and Joe Smith scored more in the 4th than he did.

 

And the Bulls plan to be utilizing pick and rolls with Rose alot and play at a fastbreak type offense. That means easy buckets for Tyrus. The problem when running pick and roll with Skiles is that he would have Duhon and Ben Wallace run it alot. Ben is offensively inept, Duhon can't shoot. So a team could always just double down on whatever player and know they wouldn't get burned because a shot wasn't going to get made.

 

Tyrus and Rose will have a lot of lobbing going on, just like Chandler now does in NO. Plus, Tyrus can change the game with his defense. He has great instincts. He just has to get a little bulkier, but we'll see.

[nitetrain8601]

He'll give you about 9 and 9 as a PF, take way too many jump shots that he can't hit, get into foul trouble, demand the ball and sulk all game when he doesn't get it, play mediocre defense with an extraordinary block every once in a while, have a goaltending here and there, and then throw down a spectacular dunk, causing more people, such as you, to ignore his lack of ANY skill and only look at his amazing athleticism and hope for great potential.

 

Doesn't help when the only PT you get is at SF(which is out of position) and if you make one mistake, you get pulled.

[nitetrain8601]

Remember that part where he missed 20 games?

 

If he hadn't, he still wouldn't be top 5 for SF's.