ZoomSlowik Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jul 30, 2008 -> 09:46 PM) Oh yeah, at least for total rebounds, since I can't find RPG, Deng isn't in the top 15 for SF's. http://basketballreference.com/leaders/lea...g=n&yr=2007 Wow, total rebounds for a guy that missed 20 games. Nice try. Yeah, he was if you do sort by position on ESPN. His 6.3 a game last year would have put him 4th behind Lebron, Melo and Josh Howard, just slightly ahead of Rudy Gay and Danny Granger. Even if you slide Mike Miller, Lamar Odom, Josh Smith and Antwan Jamison to SF (all are debateable) he'd be in the top-10. In 06/07 his 7.1 rebounds was second at the position, again, down to 5th if you count Marion, Smith and Jamison. Go back another year and he was 4th, depending on how you list those 4 guys and Boris Diaw (and he tied with Josh Smith). Small forwards that grossly out-rebound Deng are extremely rare. Edited July 31, 2008 by ZoomSlowik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jul 30, 2008 -> 10:49 PM) Plus, Tyrus can change the game with his defense. He has great instincts. Umm, what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 30, 2008 -> 09:52 PM) Wow, total rebounds for a guy that missed 20 games. Nice try. Yeah, he was if you do sort by position on ESPN. His 6.3 a game last year would have put him 4th behind Lebron, Melo and Josh Howard, just slightly ahead of Rudy Gay and Danny Granger. Even if you slide Mike Miller, Lamar Odom, Josh Smith and Antwan Jamison to SF (all are debateable) he'd be in the top-10. In 06/07 his 7.1 rebounds was second at the position, again, down to 5th if you count Marion, Smith and Jamison. Small forwards that grossly out-rebound Deng are extremely rare. I wouldn't slide Antawn, but Josh Smith, Lamar Odom I would for sure. And Marion is a bonafide SF. Again, Deng is a good rebounder for his position, he's not out of this world, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 30, 2008 -> 09:54 PM) Umm, what? Tyrus has great defensive instincts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jul 30, 2008 -> 11:00 PM) Tyrus has great defensive instincts. Elaborate. I didn't know standing under the rim and jumping a lot meant you had great instincts. Could you give an example? He's also a terrible man defender and usually gets his blocks on help defense...so I don't know much about his "great instincts." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jul 30, 2008 -> 11:00 PM) Tyrus has great defensive instincts. If by "great defensive instincts" you mean standing near the basket and jumping. If he had any basketball IQ he'd be an awful lot better. He's out of position fairly regularly and can't guard post players one on one because of his lack of bulk. When he makes plays it's because of his great length and athleticism, not because he knows how to play the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jul 30, 2008 -> 10:59 PM) I wouldn't slide Antawn, but Josh Smith, Lamar Odom I would for sure. And Marion is a bonafide SF. Again, Deng is a good rebounder for his position, he's not out of this world, however. I never said he was a GREAT rebounder, I was pointing out that he was a decent one and not sub-par or outside the top-15 as you said previously. He doesn't have one standout tool outside of his length that allows him to get his shot up over most players, but he's decent to good at numerous things that make him a pretty solid all-around player. Plus he's still only 23 and works pretty hard so it's not totally out of the realm of possibility for him to improve. He's not suddenly going to be a post dominator or an elite 3-point shooter, but he can keep improving his efficiency and develop at least SOME ability in those areas and round out his game even further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 30, 2008 -> 09:52 PM) Wow, total rebounds for a guy that missed 20 games. Nice try. Yeah, he was if you do sort by position on ESPN. His 6.3 a game last year would have put him 4th behind Lebron, Melo and Josh Howard, just slightly ahead of Rudy Gay and Danny Granger. Even if you slide Mike Miller, Lamar Odom, Josh Smith and Antwan Jamison to SF (all are debateable) he'd be in the top-10. In 06/07 his 7.1 rebounds was second at the position, again, down to 5th if you count Marion, Smith and Jamison. Go back another year and he was 4th, depending on how you list those 4 guys and Boris Diaw (and he tied with Josh Smith). Small forwards that grossly out-rebound Deng are extremely rare. Per NBA.com Lamar Odom Shawn Marion Josh Smith LeBron James Carmelo Anthony Josh Howard Caron Butler Those are non-argumentive for last year. So again, he was good, not great and not top 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 30, 2008 -> 10:01 PM) Elaborate. I didn't know standing under the rim and jumping a lot meant you had great instincts. Could you give an example? He's also a terrible man defender and usually gets his blocks on help defense...so I don't know much about his "great instincts." Um, no. Only time he gets beat is when they play him at SF, which then again is all the time he's on the court. He doesn't just stand underneath the basket. He knows when to jump and when to go for a steal. His defense is game changing when put at PF. Now if he does gain bulk, it would help him out alot more with guys like Boozer. I'm not saying he's perfect, but he's very good defensively with big room for improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jul 30, 2008 -> 10:08 PM) Per NBA.com Lamar Odom Shawn Marion Josh Smith LeBron James Carmelo Anthony Josh Howard Caron Butler Those are non-argumentive for last year. So again, he was good, not great and not top 5. 3 of those guys played an awful lot of PF last year and in previous years (Odom, Marion, Smith). It's debateable which position they actually play, hence why the two sites list them differently. Yes, that matters because they're closer to the basket more often guarding PF's. Deng did occasionally late in games, not to that extent though. Butler didn't qualify, that's why he wasn't on the previous list (I didn't feel like double-checking everyone out there). Edited July 31, 2008 by ZoomSlowik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 30, 2008 -> 10:12 PM) 3 of those guys played an awful lot of PF last year and in previous years (Odom, Marion, Smith). It's debateable which position they actually play, hence why the two sites list them differently. Yes, that matters because they're closer to the basket more often guarding PF's. Deng did occasionally late in games, not to that extent though. Butler didn't qualify, that's why he wasn't on the previous list (I didn't feel like double-checking everyone out there). Odom didn't start playing PF until last year with the Lakers, but at that, he started the game there and would shove over to SF when Turiaf came in and at times would play G when Kobe would leave the game. On top of that, when they got Gasol, Odom never sniffed the PF spot for more than 3 minutes a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jul 30, 2008 -> 10:15 PM) Odom didn't start playing PF until last year with the Lakers, but at that, he started the game there and would shove over to SF when Turiaf came in and at times would play G when Kobe would leave the game. On top of that, when they got Gasol, Odom never sniffed the PF spot for more than 3 minutes a game. You mean besides starting every game there? Unless you REALLY call Radmanovic a PF... It's a stupid argument anyways. Regardless of the actual numbers, for a perimeter player Deng is a pretty solid rebounder. Edited July 31, 2008 by ZoomSlowik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 30, 2008 -> 11:18 PM) You mean besides starting every game there? Unless you REALLY call Radmanovic a PF... It's a stupid argument anyways. Regardless of the actual numbers, for a perimeter player Deng is a pretty solid rebounder. No doubt he is solid. My point is, you pay solid no more than 60 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jul 31, 2008 -> 09:32 AM) No doubt he is solid. My point is, you pay solid no more than 60 million. Okafor is a 14/10 guy and he got 72 million. Those numbers aren't much more than solid. Drew Gooden could average those numbers with consistent minutes. It's 2008 and it's the NBA. Pay up or lose out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 31, 2008 -> 02:31 PM) Okafor is a 14/10 guy and he got 72 million. Those numbers aren't much more than solid. Drew Gooden could average those numbers with consistent minutes. It's 2008 and it's the NBA. Pay up or lose out. He also plays a premium position. SF is hardly a premium position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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