Vazquez's Pitching Technique

[striker]

Does anyone know why a pitcher that throws as hard as Vazquez does lives on the outside corner? Isn't that for soft tossing lefties? He should at least come inside one pitch per batter.

 

If I were Ozzie I would start calling his pitches. I think his problem is more pitch selection vs. having the stuff.

 

Thoughts?

[lostfan]

Vazquez would have an ERA in the low 3's or high 2's if he threw inside more. When he does it he's unhittable. I don't know why he doesn't.

[fathom]

Does anyone know why a pitcher that throws as hard as Vazquez does lives on the outside corner? Isn't that for soft tossing lefties? He should at least come inside one pitch per batter.

 

If I were Ozzie I would start calling his pitches. I think his problem is more pitch selection vs. having the stuff.

 

Thoughts?

 

First, his fastball isn't exactly overpowering. However, the main reason he pitches outside is due to his tailing fastball. When he tries to throw down the middle or inside to righties, it ends up hitting them. His biggest problem is when his fastball tails over the heart of the plate when it's supposed to be on the outside corner.

[lostfan]

First, his fastball isn't exactly overpowering. However, the main reason he pitches outside is due to his tailing fastball. When he tries to throw down the middle or inside to righties, it ends up hitting them. His biggest problem is when his fastball tails over the heart of the plate when it's supposed to be on the outside corner.

He throws his curves and sliders to the outside corner too. He has an outstanding changeup that gets made irrelevant. Using both corners is what makes Danks so good.

Edited August 1, 2008 by lostfan

[Cali]

This technique is called "Pitching like a Pussy"

[elrockinMT]

I really feel that the issue with Vazquez is the movement on his pitches. He has to aim down the middle and believe the ball will end up outside. Aim for the inside and it would be over the plate. Now can he develop, or does he have a pitch that he can control better and get the inside corner? If not he should work on it.

[DABearSoX]

You can say it about most pitchers in the MLB. If you effectively pitch inside to hitters wonderful things tend to happen. Look at Estaban....his career year all he did was blast people inside and he wound up a 20 game winner. I don't understand why pitchers don't see this and do it all the time. Its all in the head.

[fathom]

You can say it about most pitchers in the MLB. If you effectively pitch inside to hitters wonderful things tend to happen. Look at Estaban....his career year all he did was blast people inside and he wound up a 20 game winner. I don't understand why pitchers don't see this and do it all the time. Its all in the head.

 

Not everyone can throw a chemically enhanced 95 mph cutter on the inside corner for a full season like Loaiza was able to.

[DABearSoX]

Not everyone can throw a chemically enhanced 95 mph cutter on the inside corner for a full season like Loaiza was able to.

 

ouch

[lostfan]

I really feel that the issue with Vazquez is the movement on his pitches. He has to aim down the middle and believe the ball will end up outside. Aim for the inside and it would be over the plate. Now can he develop, or does he have a pitch that he can control better and get the inside corner? If not he should work on it.

It's not really a control issue IMO. He tries to make people miss but only uses 1/2 of the plate. He misses the outside corner enough times, he will fall behind or end up walking a batter.

[JoeCredeYes]

It's not really a control issue IMO. He tries to make people miss but only uses 1/2 of the plate. He misses the outside corner enough times, he will fall behind or end up walking a batter.

 

Yeah, doesn't trust his fastball enough IMO. Tries to get fancy with the breaking stuff, falls behind, throws a "get me over" and gets crushed. I want to see more fastballs.

[WCSox]

He throws his curves and sliders to the outside corner too. He has an outstanding changeup that gets made irrelevant. Using both corners is what makes Danks so good.

 

Not to mention Mark combining that cutter with the back-door curveball against righties.

 

This technique is called "Pitching like a Pussy"

 

His unwillingness to pitch inside and his penchant for crapping his pants in pressure situations certainly makes him look like one.

 

[lostfan]

Yeah, doesn't trust his fastball enough IMO. Tries to get fancy with the breaking stuff, falls behind, throws a "get me over" and gets crushed. I want to see more fastballs.

Exactly... other hitters are aware of this too. His pitches are still pretty hard to hit, but after a while they become so predictable. If he uses both corners, he's an ace. If not, he's an average to below average pitcher.

[SoxFan1]

Not everyone can throw a chemically enhanced 95 mph cutter on the inside corner for a full season like Loaiza was able to.

Chemically enhanced?

[oralsoxpodcast]

This technique is called "Pitching like a Pussy"

 

I think I heard Steve Stone say that on the broadcast. Then Ed Farmer went on to talk for 50 straight minutes without taking a breath.

[hawksox13]

This technique is called "Pitching like a Pussy"

 

Ding Ding Ding!!! You took the words out of my mouth! Vazquez is just a loser. He has great stuff, but he typically pitches just well enough, or bad enough to lose. He's always been this way and he will never change. If the Sox do make the playoffs, I'll have zero confidence in him pitching in a big game. At this point, Floyd and Danks have shown me much more than Vazquez ever has.

[striker]

As a hitter, you look for two aspects of a pitch: location, speed. If you already know where the location is then 1/2 your work is done. That's why Vazquez get's his ass kicked yet still strikes out 10 guys, they know the location but guess the wrong pitch.

[WCSox]

If the Sox do make the playoffs, I'll have zero confidence in him pitching in a big game. At this point, Floyd and Danks have shown me much more than Vazquez ever has.

 

My playoff rotation would go: Mark, Floyd, Danks, Javy. And if Contreras was healthy and pitching relatively well, I'd seriously consider moving Javy to long relief.

 

[southsideirish71]

Our pitchers need to establish the inside corner more.

 

I break our pitchers into a few categories

 

The Buerhle mold

 

Buerhle and Danks are at their best when they drive their cutters in on right handers, then go away with their changeups. Danks has a better fastball, but not fast enough to overcome bad location. When these guys go away away away, then right handers start to dive over the plate and drive their pitches. Pounding inside, keeps this from happening.

 

 

Floyd

 

The key to floyd is not whether he establishes inside. His is the curveball. If he can throw it for strikes he can be very effective. I would like to see him go with a high 2 strike fastbll, chest high or higher, then break off the curve.

 

Contreras.

 

His is simple when healthy. Can he keep that arm slot up. If he can keep it up, and only use the sidearm attack as a different look or a 2 strike look he is fine. When his arm slot is up, he can drive down on the forkball and get the tumble action that he needs.

 

Vazquez. Vazquez is a slinger. His ball has so much movement. I would rather see him climb the ladder on 2 strikes. As his fastball has late life, aiming it is not exactly something he does. His problem with going away is the tailing action on his pitch. It comes back over the plate, and with his gunslinger approach, it sometimes catches too much of the plate. His issue similar to contreras is arm angle as well. He either gets into a bad funk, or gets tired in a game and then he opens up a bit. A guy like him needs to stay closed, and drive towards the plate keeping the arm up high. When he opens up, his arm drops down a bit and the ball sails all over the place. He gets into hitters counts, then aims a meatball in.

 

My thoughts are they all can be fixed quickly. The pen is another story. Its more about throwing strikes for them, and not getting into hitters counts. A starter has 4 pitches usually and can get away with more mistakes than a short reliever that may have 2. If one isnt over, its easy to eliminate and drive.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

 

[nitetrain8601]

Our pitchers need to establish the inside corner more.

 

I break our pitchers into a few categories

 

The Buerhle mold

 

Buerhle and Danks are at their best when they drive their cutters in on right handers, then go away with their changeups. Danks has a better fastball, but not fast enough to overcome bad location. When these guys go away away away, then right handers start to dive over the plate and drive their pitches. Pounding inside, keeps this from happening.

 

 

Floyd

 

The key to floyd is not whether he establishes inside. His is the curveball. If he can throw it for strikes he can be very effective. I would like to see him go with a high 2 strike fastbll, chest high or higher, then break off the curve.

 

Contreras.

 

His is simple when healthy. Can he keep that arm slot up. If he can keep it up, and only use the sidearm attack as a different look or a 2 strike look he is fine. When his arm slot is up, he can drive down on the forkball and get the tumble action that he needs.

 

Vazquez. Vazquez is a slinger. His ball has so much movement. I would rather see him climb the ladder on 2 strikes. As his fastball has late life, aiming it is not exactly something he does. His problem with going away is the tailing action on his pitch. It comes back over the plate, and with his gunslinger approach, it sometimes catches too much of the plate. His issue similar to contreras is arm angle as well. He either gets into a bad funk, or gets tired in a game and then he opens up a bit. A guy like him needs to stay closed, and drive towards the plate keeping the arm up high. When he opens up, his arm drops down a bit and the ball sails all over the place. He gets into hitters counts, then aims a meatball in.

 

My thoughts are they all can be fixed quickly. The pen is another story. Its more about throwing strikes for them, and not getting into hitters counts. A starter has 4 pitches usually and can get away with more mistakes than a short reliever that may have 2. If one isnt over, its easy to eliminate and drive.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

You're spot on about Vazquez. In fact an old scouting report when he was first traded from Montreal stated the same. When he climbs the ladder and doesn't get emotional, he flat out dominates.

 

1st pitch - fastball

2nd pitch - changeup/curve

3rd pitch - fastball

 

And his stuff is good enough and has enough movement to miss alot of bats. Thing is, he only throws on one side of the plate.

 

[fathom]

Chemically enhanced?

 

Sure seems like something was going on

[whitesoxfan101]

Chemically enhanced?

 

Any one standout great season from about 1987 through 2005 or so will be looked at as steroids, and I can't blame people like fathom for thinking Brady Anderson circa 1996 and Esteban Loaiza circa 2003 cheated when you look at guys like that and their results in all other seasons.

 

As for Javy, his problem is location. Early in the year, he mixed his pitches well and kept the ball down, and for the last several weeks, he's kept the ball up and his location has sucked. He has great stuff so he can turn it around, but he needs to quit throwing pitches up there begging to be hit out of the ballpark.

Edited August 1, 2008 by whitesoxfan101