Josh Fields

[YASNY]

I might be in the minority here, but after this season I never want to see Uribe in a White Sox uniform ever again.

 

Uribe is very valuable as a utility man. I don't want him starting, but he has a place in MLB and I wouldn't mind it if he stayed with the Sox.

[lostfan]

Uribe is very valuable as a utility man. I don't want him starting, but he has a place in MLB and I wouldn't mind it if he stayed with the Sox.

I'm ok with him as a utility guy. In fact, I really like him there better than anybody in recent memory. I just get upset when he's starting 5 times a week because he sucks.

Edited August 6, 2008 by lostfan

[DBAHO]

Depends on the price though with Uribe.

 

Defensively he gives you everything you want with an utility man, but he may want to start elsewhere, and the Sox may give Getz that chance to take over.

[YASNY]

Depends on the price though with Uribe.

 

Defensively he gives you everything you want with an utility man, but he may want to start elsewhere, and the Sox may give Getz that chance to take over.

 

That may be the case, but Getz is an unknown quantity as far as being a ML ballplayer. Uribe does have some proven qualities and would not kill a team if he had to fill in for an injured infielder for 2 or 3 weeks.

[WCSox]

Uribe is very valuable as a utility man. I don't want him starting, but he has a place in MLB and I wouldn't mind it if he stayed with the Sox.

 

He would probably have to take a paycut to stay with the Sox as a utility guy, as I don't see Kenny giving him a three-year, $13.5 million deal to ride the pine for the majority of the week. But if Juan were OK with, say, a three-year, $9 million deal, I'd be happy to have him stick around for a while longer.

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I can't imagine Garciaparra, Pedro Feliz or Hank Blalock...although KW is the kind of GM that would take a shot in the dark at Nomar or Blalock and hope to strike magic for one year.

 

Some other players we might take a look at:

 

Jose Vidro

Felipe Lopez

Rocco Baldelli

Oliver Perez

Rafael Soriano (injury history like Rich Harden)

Juan Cruz

Brandon Lyon

I've wanted Juan Cruz for a while.

 

I don't think KW touches Perez, Lopez, or Vidro with a 20-ft poll. I expect him to be active on the trade market, and I expect him to look into Chone Figgins and Brian Roberts. Some possible FA after 2009 we might go after to fill in at 3B: Adrian Beltre, Chad Tracy, Akinori Iwamura? (played 3B in Japan I believe)

 

Someone mentioned Pedro Feliz, and I wouldn't mind him. I guess he's pretty much Joe Crede with a little less power and batting average. If he's cheap enough and we deal Josh Fields I wouldn't have a problem with it.

 

The main question though is where the Sox see Beckham playing. If Alexei takes SS in 2009, then with Richar traded we'd probably be looking at Getz at 2B if we don't pick anyone else up. Fields would move to 3B in that scenario where we don't make a major move, but either guy may end up being replaceable with Beckham (in Fields' case, maybe a move to another position would make more sense than a trade if he shows offense in the Majors again).

 

And of course there's always the chance KW makes a run at Rafael Furcal to play SS, keeping Alexei at 2B.

 

My preferred offseason:

 

-Let Crede walk and offer arb for draft picks (-5M)

Let OC walk and offer arb for draft picks (-9M)

-Trade Contreras for prospects (-10M)

-Trade Paulie for prospects (-12M)

-Buyout Thome if his option doesn't vest, then pick up Griffey's option (wash because of money from Reds?)

-Re-sign Uribe as a UT man ($4M?)

-Sign Raul Ibanez for 2 years as a DH (+10M?)

-Sign Orlando Hudson as a 2B (+12M?)

-Sign Juan Cruz (+4M?)

-Sign Brad Penny (+12M?)

-Trade for Chone Figgins to play 3B (arb eligible I think)

 

 

Lineup vs. RHP:

 

S Figgins 3B

S Hudson 2B

R Quentin LF

L Griffey 1B

R Dye RF

L Ibanez DH

S Swisher CF

L Pierzynski C

R Ramirez SS

 

Lineup vs. LHP:

 

S Figgins 3B

S Hudson 2B

R Quentin LF

L Ibanez DH

R Dye RF

S Swisher 1B

L Pierzynski C

R Anderson CF

R Ramirez SS

 

Rotation: Buehrle-Floyd-Danks-Penny-Vazquez

Bullpen: Jenks (9th), Linebrink/Thornton/Dotel (7th-8th), Logan/Cruz (6th-7th), Wassermann LR

Bench: Hall C, Anderson OF, Uribe UT, Bourgeois/Getz UT

 

I like the idea of having 2 huge lefty sticks in the lineup against righties, and I like the idea of getting rid of Thome who is the worst situational hitter on this entire team. No hate for the guy, but I'm sick of seeing him K on bad pitches with a runner on 3B in a big situation like he did last night. We didn't need that huge HR from Swish to tie and later win that game, we just needed some solid baseball from Thome, and we didn't get it once again. Ibanez is the type of hitter that comes through in those situations, and there's more than enough power to absorb Thome's loss.

[thedoctor]

I'd disagree that rebuilding is 'due,' especially for a team in first place for 100-some games, and a half game out of first after some of the worst stretches of the season. In addition, the team has some good young talent, but it's a mixed bag with Alexei playing great and Swish playing like crap, for example. Finally, I am not sure Kenny is able to rebuild - I don't think it is in his DNA.

 

i think you can be fairly certain that if there is a rebuilding process kenny is not going to be a part of it.

[Balta1701]

i think you can be fairly certain that if there is a rebuilding process kenny is not going to be a part of it.

As far as I can tell, right now, we're in the middle of a rebuilding year. We've got 2 2nd year pitchers in our rotation, a 1st year 2nd baseman, a quasi-rookie 3rd baseman up even though he's splitting time with people, a LF in his first full season, and a "CF/1b" who's signed for several more years that we gave up a handful of prospects for.

 

Couple of disappointments tossed in there, but after winning 72 last season, we rebuild enough on the fly to be in the pennant chase again this year.

[caulfield12]

I've wanted Juan Cruz for a while.

 

I don't think KW touches Perez, Lopez, or Vidro with a 20-ft poll. I expect him to be active on the trade market, and I expect him to look into Chone Figgins and Brian Roberts. Some possible FA after 2009 we might go after to fill in at 3B: Adrian Beltre, Chad Tracy, Akinori Iwamura? (played 3B in Japan I believe)

 

Someone mentioned Pedro Feliz, and I wouldn't mind him. I guess he's pretty much Joe Crede with a little less power and batting average. If he's cheap enough and we deal Josh Fields I wouldn't have a problem with it.

 

The main question though is where the Sox see Beckham playing. If Alexei takes SS in 2009, then with Richar traded we'd probably be looking at Getz at 2B if we don't pick anyone else up. Fields would move to 3B in that scenario where we don't make a major move, but either guy may end up being replaceable with Beckham (in Fields' case, maybe a move to another position would make more sense than a trade if he shows offense in the Majors again).

 

And of course there's always the chance KW makes a run at Rafael Furcal to play SS, keeping Alexei at 2B.

 

My preferred offseason:

 

-Let Crede walk and offer arb for draft picks (-5M)

Let OC walk and offer arb for draft picks (-9M)

-Trade Contreras for prospects (-10M)

-Trade Paulie for prospects (-12M)

-Buyout Thome if his option doesn't vest, then pick up Griffey's option (wash because of money from Reds?)

-Re-sign Uribe as a UT man ($4M?)

-Sign Raul Ibanez for 2 years as a DH (+10M?)

-Sign Orlando Hudson as a 2B (+12M?)

-Sign Juan Cruz (+4M?)

-Sign Brad Penny (+12M?)

-Trade for Chone Figgins to play 3B (arb eligible I think)

 

 

Lineup vs. RHP:

 

S Figgins 3B

S Hudson 2B

R Quentin LF

L Griffey 1B

R Dye RF

L Ibanez DH

S Swisher CF

L Pierzynski C

R Ramirez SS

 

Lineup vs. LHP:

 

S Figgins 3B

S Hudson 2B

R Quentin LF

L Ibanez DH

R Dye RF

S Swisher 1B

L Pierzynski C

R Anderson CF

R Ramirez SS

 

Rotation: Buehrle-Floyd-Danks-Penny-Vazquez

Bullpen: Jenks (9th), Linebrink/Thornton/Dotel (7th-8th), Logan/Cruz (6th-7th), Wassermann LR

Bench: Hall C, Anderson OF, Uribe UT, Bourgeois/Getz UT

 

I like the idea of having 2 huge lefty sticks in the lineup against righties, and I like the idea of getting rid of Thome who is the worst situational hitter on this entire team. No hate for the guy, but I'm sick of seeing him K on bad pitches with a runner on 3B in a big situation like he did last night. We didn't need that huge HR from Swish to tie and later win that game, we just needed some solid baseball from Thome, and we didn't get it once again. Ibanez is the type of hitter that comes through in those situations, and there's more than enough power to absorb Thome's loss.

 

Assuming Konerko and Contreras look so-so down the stretch....well I think it's going to be difficult to get rid of either player, B-Level prospects or not.

 

There are way too many concerns about Konerko's weight, general body language, bat speed, "degenerative hip condition," etc., for any team to take a risk on him for an extended period of time without a rigorous set of physical examinations...especially with lingering concerns around the league after Sirotka and Garcia so quickly became "dead weight" to the Blue Jays and Phillies.

 

Maybe it was just lucky timing by KW, just like BB was "lucky" to pick the right time to get rid of Hudson, Mulder and Zito...but I think many teams would be scared to touch either one of these two guys unless they really show something the final 50 games that they haven't the last 50 or so.

 

I don't see Fields playing at 2B (I guess anything is possible, but it seems more possible for someone like J. Valentin in his 30's than Fields)...he's either a DH LF, 3B or trade bait.

 

I think Beckham will have to be at 2B or 3B, ideally at 2B from everything I've read...we'll see how Getz (Aaron Miles clone with a bit more speed and versatility, maybe not quite the hitter) does at 2B.

 

[RockRaines]

I like how everyone's plan of getting rid of aging players is to "trade them for prospects" like its a magic box you put them in and good young players pop out in return. Would anyone here trade OUR prospects for one of those guys.

[elrockinMT]

It is very disturbing to me that we have so few home grown players on our roster. Plus we seem to always have plans to trade the few we have for someone else's. I guess on the other hand it worked with Danks and Floyd so I feel very strongly both ways about this issue

Edited August 6, 2008 by elrockinMT

[caulfield12]

It is very disturbing to me that we have so few home grown players on our roster. Plus we seem to always have plans to trade the few we have for someone else's. I guess on the other hand it worked with Danks and Floyd so I feel very strongly both ways about this issue

 

 

That's why it is always so painful going through partings with homegrown players such as Ventura, Thomas, McDowell (always a testy relationship), Crede, Rowand, Durham, Mike Cameron, Wilson Alvarez, Alex Fernandez....I'm glad we stuck with Buehrle, despite occasional misgivings, like his last couple of starts. I wasn't heartbroken about Garland's departure. Maybe because I'm not a teenage girl!!

 

I guess the only blessing is that players like Ramirez, Quentin, Floyd and Danks pretty much feel like rookies, but, at the same time, it would have been nice to see someone like Brandon McCarthy become a 2/3 starter for the Sox. And Swisher seems like he will become a fan favorite, too. Konerko pretty much has been with the Sox for the majority of his major league career.

 

I do wish that Ordonez and C-Lee left the Sox under better circumstances, especially Magglio.

[Kyyle23]

I know its a source of pride and I would love if the Sox farm system produced more ML talent that made an impact with the Sox, but at the same time I just want a team on the field who will win. If it has to come from other farm systems, so be it

[lostfan]

I love the Beckham pick, and am excited to watch his progress, but you can't base your FA signings around a guy that has never playing an inning of professional baseball at any level. You just can't do it. At this point in time, the most action Beckham is going to see this season is about 40 AB's with Kanny or W-S. You can't go into the off-season and think "Well, we really don't need a FA 2B-SS because we have Beckham in the wings". Can't do it.

Also, for the same reason, you don't draft for your MLB roster's need. The buffer between the draft and actually playing is so long that doing that would be stupid. It amuses me how many people think doing things like that is a good idea.

[Chisoxfn]

If the Sox cared so much about their defense Ken Griffey Jr. would never start a game in CF.

The difference between Griffey & Swisher isn't comparable to the difference between Fields and Uribe defensively. Not to mention the fact that people are really pushing it if they believe that Josh Fields is capable of hitting .250 right now. I realize he did some nice things last year but the guy has a s***load of holes to his game and has been getting PWNED by major league pitching thus far this year (and has not done crap against minor league pitching).

 

I realize injuries are a factor but bottom line is Fields swing is a mess and he's a significant downgrade defensively. Hell, I don't think anyone could even tell me with a straight face that he is that much of an upgrade offensively over Uribe (not with the way Fields is swinging the bat right now).

 

Stick with Juan, at least than we can have one player on the field that can catch the f***ing ball.

[Chisoxfn]

If KW could have got Street for Fields and Poreda i garuntee you he makes the deal, but according to Cowley, the A's asked for Danks or Floyd to go along with Fields and Poreda. The asking price for guys like Fuentes and Street were beyond crazy. So i dont blame KW on this one.

That would have been a terrible trade and I can't stand Josh Fields.

[Chisoxfn]

Here's the problem with how we handled Fields this year. AAA is full of pitchers with mediocre fastballs. Hell, if you want a guy to see good fastballs in the minors, AA is the league to go to. My brother recently saw 6 straight games started by pitchers who threw slower than 88 mph against the Durham Bulls.

The Sox didn't handle Fields wrong. He was ready for AAA and there isn't an issue playing AAA guys. He's stunk this year primarily because injuries have prevented him from playing for any extended period of time. That and a big hole in his swing but that wouldn't have been torn apart whether he was in AA or AAA (if healthy he'd have put up his typical ML minors just like Brian Anderson always did). Thats why clubs need both good scouts and player development people. That way you can not only identify if guys have significant holes, but hopefully correct some of those holes and if the development guys can't than the scouts pass that info to a GM who can trade those players while the value is still there.

 

However, one point I'll agree with you on is related to the talent gap between AA and AAA. If you succeed in AA you can go straight to the majors if you have the tools just as easy as someone who has succeeded in AAA could go to the majors.

[BearSox]

Street is by far the most overrated closer in baseball...

[Balta1701]

Street is by far the most overrated closer in baseball...

He's clearly having a down year this year, but some of those numbers he's put up in the past are hard to argue with. 2007, dominant numbers, 50 innings pitched, 35 hits, 12 walks. WHIP below 1. 63 strikeouts in 50 innings. 2006, pretty solid numbers, WHIP of 1.1, 67 k's in 70 innings.

[Chisoxfn]

Street's biggest issue has been injuries. When he's healthy he's an above average closer. However, he's clearly not healthy.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I like how everyone's plan of getting rid of aging players is to "trade them for prospects" like its a magic box you put them in and good young players pop out in return.

 

Whoever said anything about "good young players?" Griffey went for a couple of young guys with some upside, and Paulie and Contreras should have no problem fetching at least that much. It would be more about dumping salary and picking up a couple pieces that you might be able to move elsewhere.

 

Paulie has two years left on his contract and his numbers this year have been the result of lingering injuries. I love how some, like you are doing here, automatically assume these guys have no value to anyone whatsoever. Contreras should be pretty easy to move with only one year left and a pretty good first half, especially if the contract of an overpaid bench player or reliever is coming back. Paulie would be more difficult only because he has a NTC, but he still will have value.

 

Would anyone here trade OUR prospects for one of those guys.

 

If I didn't have a 1B worth a s*** and he only cost a B and C prospect plus a spare part, then hell yes I'd pick up Paulie. And if I was looking for a #5 starter and didn't want to shell out longterm deals to the bigger names, and if I didn't feel like signing garbage like Randy Wolf to a one year deal, then hell yeah I'd give up practically nothing to take on Contreras for one year. At least when he's on he's dominant instead of mediocre. I'd rather try to catch lightning in bottle for 1/2 - 2/3 of a season instead of going after a guy I pretty much know is going to suck from bell to bell.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

This entire post is a huge contradiction, especially the bolded part.

 

First off, the only reason Griff was even movable was because he is only under contract for two months. Thats it. Stop equating KGJ to a guy that is owed more than 23 million over the next two years. Next, you talk about Contreras only having one year left, and having a pretty good first half, and that the Sox could get back an overpaid bench player. Why would the Sox even move Contreras then? All the young starting pitching the Sox have down at AAA?

 

You talk about Konerko and Contreras like they are valuable assets, yet you want to trade them for spare parts or overpaid bench players. Which is it?

Griff was movable before but a trade was difficult due to his right to nix deals and also ownership wanting to nix deals. We almost had him in 2005 before the Reds ownership canceled the trade.

 

About Contreras, it depends on the player coming back and the fit. If some other team has a RP they owe say $3M to and want to get rid of, maybe it's a guy the Sox feel like they could benefit from? Same thing with a bench player, if it's a fit then it's an option. If the Sox want to go in another direction and maybe sign someone off the FA market or make a trade for another pitcher, they would want to deal Jose just to clear a spot. In that case I could see them taking on a smaller salary with one year left just to get a better prospect in the deal even if they didn't really need that player coming back. The only thing I can't see the Sox doing is eating salary, but I don't think they'd have to. Someone would offer something and take the contract.

 

Konerko and Contreras can be valuable assets, but they aren't going to bring in any really good prospects or anything. The Sox would have to sell low on both and would only do it if they want to go in another direction. Having 4 average or better SP and Nick Swisher under control for the next few years allows them to deal both players for the sake of opening a spot, not maximizing value.

 

I think either Konerko or Contreras could get us something that could help in one way or another. Maybe we could get a RP prospect with some value, a #4/#5 starter prospect to use as trade bait, or maybe another project or two like Floyd and Thornton were. Most teams are going to be looking for starting pitching, so Contreras should be pretty easy to trade because it's very low risk, only money and a player or two not in anyone's longterm plans. For Konerko, the idea is getting him to waive his NTC (which might not happen at all) but in the event Texeira doesn't re-sign with the Angels, they are a possibility (don't know how they feel about Kendry Morales). If he just wants to stay on the West coast and would waive his NTC for a team not in contention, the A's could be an option, also the Giants, Texas isn't on the West coast but it's a great hitting environment he might consider if Bradley isn't brought back, plus the Mariners will need a 1B and a DH.

 

My whole point is that they're not impossible to move and they could bring us something that might help us in the future, even if it's not any big-name players or prospects.

 

Edit: I didn't make any contradiction in the previous post. There's a difference between no value (Jeff Weaver, Jose Vidro, Gary Matthews, Jr.) and some value (players worth under-appreciated prospects or projects with pretty high upside and role players that can help a Major League team in spots).

Edited August 6, 2008 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[caulfield12]

Griff was movable before but a trade was difficult due to his right to nix deals and also ownership wanting to nix deals. We almost had him in 2005 before the Reds ownership canceled the trade.

 

About Contreras, it depends on the player coming back and the fit. If some other team has a RP they owe say $3M to and want to get rid of, maybe it's a guy the Sox feel like they could benefit from? Same thing with a bench player, if it's a fit then it's an option. If the Sox want to go in another direction and maybe sign someone off the FA market or make a trade for another pitcher, they would want to deal Jose just to clear a spot. In that case I could see them taking on a smaller salary with one year left just to get a better prospect in the deal even if they didn't really need that player coming back. The only thing I can't see the Sox doing is eating salary, but I don't think they'd have to. Someone would offer something and take the contract.

 

Konerko and Contreras can be valuable assets, but they aren't going to bring in any really good prospects or anything. The Sox would have to sell low on both and would only do it if they want to go in another direction. Having 4 average or better SP and Nick Swisher under control for the next few years allows them to deal both players for the sake of opening a spot, not maximizing value.

 

I think either Konerko or Contreras could get us something that could help in one way or another. Maybe we could get a RP prospect with some value, a #4/#5 starter prospect to use as trade bait, or maybe another project or two like Floyd and Thornton were. Most teams are going to be looking for starting pitching, so Contreras should be pretty easy to trade because it's very low risk, only money and a player or two not in anyone's longterm plans. For Konerko, the idea is getting him to waive his NTC (which might not happen at all) but in the event Texeira doesn't re-sign with the Angels, they are a possibility (don't know how they feel about Kendry Morales). If he just wants to stay on the West coast and would waive his NTC for a team not in contention, the A's could be an option, also the Giants, Texas isn't on the West coast but it's a great hitting environment he might consider if Bradley isn't brought back, plus the Mariners will need a 1B and a DH.

 

My whole point is that they're not impossible to move and they could bring us something that might help us in the future, even if it's not any big-name players or prospects.

 

Edit: I didn't make any contradiction in the previous post. There's a difference between no value (Jeff Weaver, Jose Vidro, Gary Matthews, Jr.) and some value (players worth under-appreciated prospects or projects with pretty high upside and role players that can help a Major League team in spots).

 

The Angels remain the best possibility, if Texeira leaves.

 

Giants...they're in a rebuilding phase, and signing one player like Konerko at his salary for two seasons won't put them over the top. In fact, one of the main reasons they're in the mess they are in is/was keeping so many veterans/aging players on their roster one or two years too long (players like Dave Roberts, Randy Winn, Durham, Aurilia, Zito), many with longer-term deals.

 

Mariners...maybe, but I think they would be a little gun-shy after the Sexson and Beltre misfires, along with spending so much money on pitchers like Washburn, Weaver and Batista with little to no return. They're kind of caught in the middle. What to do with players like Ichiro and Ibanez and JJ Putz, maybe even Jose Lopez...obviously, they're hoping to build around King Felix and Clement.

 

Rangers....first have to decide whether they will keep Blalock and whether or not Chris Davis is their 1B of the future or not.

 

A's...kind of goes 100% against the BB style, which is trading for or signing hitters like Thomas, Piazza, Bradley, Dye, Hatteberg, etc., that are undervalued. That kind of contract just doesn't seem to fit into the A's plans, especially with all the health concerns surrounding their "franchise" player, Eric Chavez.

 

[Balta1701]

The Angels remain the best possibility, if Texeira leaves.

I think the Angels learned from their experience this year in not trading for Konerko. They're still holding Kendry Morales as a fairly young 1b and if Tex walks I imagine they'll give him a shot first.

[witesoxfan]

Would the numbers make sense to add Furcal, Hudson and Beltre?

 

Aren't we losing most of the payroll benefits of Cabrera, Crede and Uribe leaving because of raises/escaltors in many of the existing contracts?

 

I have no desire to bring in both Furcal and Hudson. That would leave the team with a hell of a mess, what with Ramirez, Swisher, and Konerko all apparently deserving of starting spots and only 2 spots for all 3 of them. If the organization thinks Ramirez can handle short, then the answer would be Hudson; otherwise, it's Furcal.

 

Furcal's age really is a concern...any speed-based player in his early 30's starts a rapid decline, especially at positions with lots of wear and tear. I know that Omar Vizquel has kind of been the exception, but it seems like many of the Dominican players really have drop-offs at that point. Perhaps one factor is the "legitimate" ages and fake birth certificates.

 

I actually have no fear of Furcal producing...the only concern I have with him is injuries, and the Sox have the best training staff in the majors. Some you can't prevent, but they generally keep all of their position players healthy throughout the course of the year on anything other than freak accidents. If you sign him to another 3 year deal, I'd feel perfectly comfortable that he'd be worth the money.

 

Maybe if we moved Konerko or Contreras, but both those moves seem quite unlikely, unless they REALLY heat up the finally months. Every time that Contreras is really hot (first half of 06, first half of 08) it seems crazy to deal him, then he becomes an abysmal pitcher who's ouchy, too old and almost impossible to trade! Frustrating. There have been at least two defined periods in Konerko's Sox career he was similarly impossible to deal...and, likewise, impossible NOT to keep around, seemingly.

 

I don't think you have to move either of them unless you are getting enough value back. The Sox obviously aren't going to spend $150 mill, but with the contracts they have coming off and really only modest raises going to others, they can afford to take on a contract while giving out another one and still be fine with Contreras and Konerko. If they get pieces they can move them for, then that's an entirely different story.