Another Crede thread...

[southsider2k5]

With the relapse of injury problems, a thought just hit me. Usually if a Borass guy can't get a whole lot of years, they take a one year deal so that they could re-explore the market in a year.

 

Any thoughts about something like a one year 7-10 million dollar deal to bring Joe back for 2009?

[BigSqwert]

With the relapse of injury problems, a thought just hit me. Usually if a Borass guy can't get a whole lot of years, they take a one year deal so that they could re-explore the market in a year.

 

Any thoughts about something like a one year 7-10 million dollar deal to bring Joe back for 2009?

Hmm. He seems to miss a decent amount of time every season now. For 1 year maybe we can sign Casey Blake? And is Fields still a desirable option for the future? Seems like fans are losing interest and patience.

[Dick Allen]

It doesn't look like Joe played last night, so his back must really be bothering him. I was all for bringing him back this year, but he's done all the exercises and preventitive things he could do, and he still has issues. Its going to kill his market IMO, and while I hope he gets back soon, I think its best for the Sox to move on after the season. It looks like he probably will have problems from here on out.

[WCSox]

I think its best for the Sox to move on after the season. It looks like he probably will have problems from here on out.

 

+1

 

And with Fields looking terrible at the plate this year, Kenny should go after a cheap-ish, get-me-by vet like Blake in the off-season.

 

[DBAHO]

Yeah Blake is looking like a good option at this point.

 

I'd be all for trading Fields for a good young starting pitcher in the Danks / Floyd mould who could jump into the rotation from next season.

 

Of course you'd have $10M wasted on Contreras still then (unless you could somehow dump him on somebody).

[BigSqwert]

Of course you'd have $10M wasted on Contreras still then (unless you could somehow dump him on somebody).

Joba is hurt! They have money. One can only dream.

[WCSox]

I'd be all for trading Fields for a good young starting pitcher in the Danks / Floyd mould who could jump into the rotation from next season.

 

Of course you'd have $10M wasted on Contreras still then (unless you could somehow dump him on somebody).

 

If KW were able to procure Blake (or somebody like him), I'd go ahead and deal Fields for a pitcher. I'd like to keep Fields around to see if he can develop into a better hitter, but I think that we need a reliable (health-wise) 5th starter more than Josh.

 

Next year is the last of Jose's deal and I'm sure that somebody would take him if Kenny ate half of the remaining $10 million or so on it.

 

[DBAHO]

If KW were able to procure Blake (or somebody like him), I'd go ahead and deal Fields for a pitcher. I'd like to keep Fields around to see if he can develop into a better hitter, but I think that we need a reliable (health-wise) 5th starter more than Josh.

 

Next year is the last of Jose's deal and I'm sure that somebody would take him if Kenny ate half of the remaining $10 million or so on it.

Some team in the NL such as the Padres or even the Mets could be well interested in Jose for $5M if the cost was minimal. I doubt whether or not the Sox would be willing to pick up much of that contract though.

 

A lot depends on how Jose looks for the rest of the season when he eventually comes back.

[thedoctor]

does anyone really think that fields is going to be the key to a deal that gets us a good starting pitcher? if sox fans are aware he's been sucky and hasn't solved the hole in his swing, i'd imagine other gms are aware as well.

[almagest]

does anyone really think that fields is going to be the key to a deal that gets us a good starting pitcher? if sox fans are aware he's been sucky and hasn't solved the hole in his swing, i'd imagine other gms are aware as well.

Probably not; they're too busy dreaming about signing Casey Blake (?!) and trading Fields for Jake Peavy or something.

[southsideirish71]

does anyone really think that fields is going to be the key to a deal that gets us a good starting pitcher? if sox fans are aware he's been sucky and hasn't solved the hole in his swing, i'd imagine other gms are aware as well.

 

You can't teach that type of raw power, so he will have value. Not the value to get an SP, but something will come back our way. Other teams might think that a change of venue, a different message might help him make better contact. How many physically talented pitchers have we fixed up to rehab here. Now the key is, to move the asset before he burns all of his value like Mr. Borchard.

Edited August 5, 2008 by southsideirish71

[Metz]

You can't teach that type of raw power, so he will have value. Not the value to get an SP, but something will come back our way. Other teams might think that a change of venue, a different message might help him make better contact. How many physically talented pitchers have we fixed up to rehab here. Now the key is, to move the asset before he burns all of his value like Mr. Borchard.

 

We did get Thornton out of Borchard, but yeah what he could have been is a bit greater

[Dick Allen]

Russell Branyon had a couple years in MLB similar in power numbers to Fields' 2007. His minor league numbers were far superior. Ben Broussard is what the Indians got for him when they cut the cord. If Fields can't make contact, he's not worth much. Hopefully, that is an area that can be improved.

[Balta1701]

With the relapse of injury problems, a thought just hit me. Usually if a Borass guy can't get a whole lot of years, they take a one year deal so that they could re-explore the market in a year.

 

Any thoughts about something like a one year 7-10 million dollar deal to bring Joe back for 2009?

Here's my question...what do the doctors think? I'm really not surprised Joe's having back issues again this year, it's still been only 1 year or so since he actually had the surgery, and within 6 months or so after the surgery he was already pushing himself to get back to baseball. Think of people who try to rush back from Tommy John or any other major surgery, they tend to come back but then wind up feeling a little more pain then having to shut themselves down to heal a bit.

 

The question is...is Crede's back problem now just related to his back stiffening up after all the work he's loaded on it trying to rehab, or is it actually continuing to degenerate?

[DBAHO]

Russell Branyon had a couple years in MLB similar in power numbers to Fields' 2007. His minor league numbers were far superior. Ben Broussard is what the Indians got for him when they cut the cord. If Fields can't make contact, he's not worth much. Hopefully, that is an area that can be improved.

I still think an NL team such as the Giants who desperately need offense would love to have Fields if the price was right.

 

Fields for Jonathan Sanchez for example maybe?

[southsideirish71]

Here's my question...what do the doctors think? I'm really not surprised Joe's having back issues again this year, it's still been only 1 year or so since he actually had the surgery, and within 6 months or so after the surgery he was already pushing himself to get back to baseball. Think of people who try to rush back from Tommy John or any other major surgery, they tend to come back but then wind up feeling a little more pain then having to shut themselves down to heal a bit.

 

The question is...is Crede's back problem now just related to his back stiffening up after all the work he's loaded on it trying to rehab, or is it actually continuing to degenerate?

 

The question is, how long has his back hurt this year. This is a guy on the verge of a big payday. I would say that for that kind of payday, people could deal with a lot of discomfort. To me the drop off from his hot start with the bat, and the amount of errors on simple plays is a bit concerning. Look at how he works. He can make the spectacular plays. The ones he reacts to. The ones that take time, and allow him to think cause him issues this year. These are the types where he has to bend over quite a bit or follow through on the throw. Sailing a throw and not following through is something that screams the back. If you look at his fielding issues, there were he has to bend over with the ball in front of him. It takes him a bit to do that. Normally you bend you knees, level to the ball and make the play. He is trying to bend over without bending his knees. I dont know if a doctor will get near him until he signs his FA deal.

[Metz]

I still think an NL team such as the Giants who desperately need offense would love to have Fields if the price was right.

 

Fields for Jonathan Sanchez for example maybe?

 

I hope we get more value then just Sanchez, but yeah its just an example

[fathom]

I hope we get more value then just Sanchez, but yeah its just an example

 

We'd have to give up more than Fields to get Sanchez likely. I still predict that the Giants sign OC to a big deal in the offseason.

Edited August 5, 2008 by fathom

[Metz]

We'd have to give up more than Fields to get Sanchez likely.

 

Eh, Idk .. Sanchez has not really looked good since his last win which was at the end of June. KW would not give up Fields+ for Sanchez

[YASNY]

The question is, how long has his back hurt this year. This is a guy on the verge of a big payday. I would say that for that kind of payday, people could deal with a lot of discomfort. To me the drop off from his hot start with the bat, and the amount of errors on simple plays is a bit concerning. Look at how he works. He can make the spectacular plays. The ones he reacts to. The ones that take time, and allow him to think cause him issues this year. These are the types where he has to bend over quite a bit or follow through on the throw. Sailing a throw and not following through is something that screams the back. If you look at his fielding issues, there were he has to bend over with the ball in front of him. It takes him a bit to do that. Normally you bend you knees, level to the ball and make the play. He is trying to bend over without bending his knees. I dont know if a doctor will get near him until he signs his FA deal.

 

In my opinion, that is one fantastic analysis.

[GreatScott82]

Eh, Idk .. Sanchez has not really looked good since his last win which was at the end of June. KW would not give up Fields+ for Sanchez

Not to mention the Giants will likely overpay for Crede this offseason. I would be okay with Casey Blake for a year if it means bringing back another starter for Fields. However, Im sure KW's first 3rb base option will to be attempting to aqcuire Figgins once again. A lot will depend on if Konerko can increase his market value these next 2 months.

 

 

[elrockinMT]

With the relapse of injury problems, a thought just hit me. Usually if a Borass guy can't get a whole lot of years, they take a one year deal so that they could re-explore the market in a year.

 

Any thoughts about something like a one year 7-10 million dollar deal to bring Joe back for 2009?

 

 

I don't think the injury is the same as the back surgery. Stiffness or tightness in the back muscles is what I believe the word was from the team trainer. Joe is still a better choice for 3B then Fields or Uribe in my opinion and I would have no problem with an extension.

Edited August 5, 2008 by elrockinMT

[LosMediasBlancas]

The question is, how long has his back hurt this year. This is a guy on the verge of a big payday. I would say that for that kind of payday, people could deal with a lot of discomfort. To me the drop off from his hot start with the bat, and the amount of errors on simple plays is a bit concerning. Look at how he works. He can make the spectacular plays. The ones he reacts to. The ones that take time, and allow him to think cause him issues this year. These are the types where he has to bend over quite a bit or follow through on the throw. Sailing a throw and not following through is something that screams the back. If you look at his fielding issues, there were he has to bend over with the ball in front of him. It takes him a bit to do that. Normally you bend you knees, level to the ball and make the play. He is trying to bend over without bending his knees. I dont know if a doctor will get near him until he signs his FA deal.

 

Great observation. What's interesting is that normally, bending at the knees will take pressure off your back.

A someone else mentioned, we really need to hear from a Dr. on Crede's situation. The Sox claim he didn't really need to go on the DL, that they just did it so that we'd have him at the end of the season. This makes no sense to me, either the guy can play or he can't.

[thedoctor]

You can't teach that type of raw power, so he will have value. Not the value to get an SP, but something will come back our way. Other teams might think that a change of venue, a different message might help him make better contact. How many physically talented pitchers have we fixed up to rehab here. Now the key is, to move the asset before he burns all of his value like Mr. Borchard.

 

i can buy that. i don't doubt at all that fields has some value. i just guess i wonder if we overvalue him sometimes because he's the top prospect in a deficient minor-league system.

 

i mean, few publications even rank fields as a top-100 overall prospect. then factor in his struggles both offensively and defensively at the big-league level and i wonder if he's as good as we think he is in terms of overall trade value.

 

at the same time, although he's struggled in limited time this year, his successes last year probably bump his value up a bit. i guess in general i just have a hard time coming to a conclusion about whether fields is a valuable prospect or not as it relates to trade return.

[Kalapse]

I don't think the injury is the same as the back surgery. Stiffness or tightness in the back muscles is what I believe the word was from the team trainer. Joe is still a better choice for 3B then Fields or Uribe in my opinion and I would have no problem with an extension.

Would you be in favor of giving Crede a 100% guaranteed 4 or 5 year deal right now?