I've got an awesome idea...

[Soxbadger]

Milkman,

 

The last time the Sox tried to rebuild Id consider the "White Flag" trade.

 

How did the fans react to that?

[thedoctor]

To ptatc and thedoctor, agree to disagree. I am more a believer that, with the age of our players and lack of depth in our farm system, we should look to rebuild if we don't find the promised land again this year. I felt this way last year, and so far it seems like I was definitely wrong. But, the team is definitely getting older and I don't see that solving itself. Sooner or later it will probably have to be done, and that might just be my own opinion. And again, let me clarify that I'm not talking about a total rebuild, but more of sacrificing a couple of years to dump the older players, replace them with younger guys that may need some time to adjust, and keep the young guys we already have (Buehrle, Jenks, Quentin, Ramirez, Swisher, etc.).

 

i hear what you're saying, and there is some truth to letting the roster change and move into something else.

 

at the same time, i think some of that will happen naturally. as mentioned earlier in the thread there is a potential that a significant chunk of payroll comes off the books after this year, particularly if thome's option isn't picked up. next year you can potentially have dye, contreras, and a few others come off the books (i think).

 

where does that money go? i think you can make some deals and spend wisely and keep the team competitive. my fear of going into total rebuilding mode is that attendance suffers, payroll drops, and that is going to be damn hard to recapture. consider that from 2005 until now the sox are averaging almost 10,000 more fans per game than they did in the four years prior to 2005. the sox need to win to draw and they need to draw to maintain the payroll they'll need to keep guys like alexei, quentin, danks, and floyd.

[greg775]

Ive got an awesome idea, the Sox should start Griffey the first game he plays in Chicago regardless of pitcher because thats who the fans want to see

 

Exactly.

[Kyyle23]

Exactly.

 

Im pretty sure that was sarcasm from SB, I dont think he meant that

[BigSqwert]

Im pretty sure that was sarcasm from SB, I dont think he meant that

Indeed. I did find it odd that we had 3 lefties in the lineup against Robertson. But how could you bench Jr in his first home game?

[ptatc]

To ptatc and thedoctor, agree to disagree. I am more a believer that, with the age of our players and lack of depth in our farm system, we should look to rebuild if we don't find the promised land again this year. I felt this way last year, and so far it seems like I was definitely wrong. But, the team is definitely getting older and I don't see that solving itself. Sooner or later it will probably have to be done, and that might just be my own opinion. And again, let me clarify that I'm not talking about a total rebuild, but more of sacrificing a couple of years to dump the older players, replace them with younger guys that may need some time to adjust, and keep the young guys we already have (Buehrle, Jenks, Quentin, Ramirez, Swisher, etc.).

 

I'm not saying your wrong. Sometimes that is the best plan. I was just commenting on how this board would react and I'm not sure if most fans would agree with you.

 

Edited August 6, 2008 by ptatc

[Kyyle23]

Indeed. I did find it odd that we had 3 lefties in the lineup against Robertson. But how could you bench Jr in his first home game?

 

Hasnt Thome been pretty good against lefties this year?

[greg775]

And again, let me clarify that I'm not talking about a total rebuild, but more of sacrificing a couple of years to dump the older players, replace them with younger guys that may need some time to adjust, and keep the young guys we already have (Buehrle, Jenks, Quentin, Ramirez, Swisher, etc.).

 

I haven't read all the threads but what young guys are you talking about playing? Guys from our s*** farm system? Trading some of our old guys for young guys? KW is doing a pretty nice job as our GM. I want him to try to keep the team competitive and not sacrifice a couple years. The Royals spout this BS every year and suck every year except when they play us.

Edited August 6, 2008 by greg775

[Jake]

He can't hit for average anymore, can't run too hard or he'll injure himself, and he can't defend. He'll give you the occasional homer. In that sense, he's pretty one-dimensional. I guess you can say two-dimensional, as he can still draw a walk. The guy is a shell of his former self. I refuse to overlook his flaws because he used to be great.

 

And again, to Masset. I wasn't necessarily pointing out the loss of Masset, but the fact that we traded from a weakness (which we should have addressed) to add to the team's current strong point.

 

He had a slow start to this season but as of late has indeed hit for average. He batted .277 last year in a full time role, and I don't see how one can use the "well he's older now" to say he can't hit at a clip similar to last year from here on out. His season stats indicate a two-dimensional hitter, his recent splits and career numbers indicate a three-dimensional hitter. I don't know how he hits situationally, I suppose if he does that well you could say there is another potential dimension.

[Soxbadger]

It wasnt sarcasm, there is no way Griffey does not start yesterdays game. In terms of marketing presence, Ken Griffey is the biggest name on the South Side in years. He was a legitimate superstar that brings fans to the game.

 

I went to last nights game, I cant even imagine how the 35k+ fans would have reacted to Griffey not playing.

[greg775]

You don't acquire Griffey to sit him. He's Griffey. Like you said the fans would have been furious.

[Jake]

It wasnt sarcasm, there is no way Griffey does not start yesterdays game. In terms of marketing presence, Ken Griffey is the biggest name on the South Side in years. He was a legitimate superstar that brings fans to the game.

 

I went to last nights game, I cant even imagine how the 35k+ fans would have reacted to Griffey not playing.

 

The attendance would have went down strangely early in the game. I know that if I paid for the ticket I would have stayed, but would have felt discourage to go again if there was a chance Griff wouldn't play.

[Milkman delivers]

Which of the "old guys" are you going to dump, and how are you going to do it? And how will you justify dumping Jermaine Dye?

 

Well, fortunately I'm not the GM and I don't have to come up with the specifics.

 

I'd actually take Jenks off the no-trade list. He seems like a guy who can be sold high on before he drops off too much. And dumping Dye would be justified if we were going to do a sort of rebuild, as he'd be useless to a rebuilding team and would bring a nice package back in a trade. I'd definitely trade Vazquez, and hope to get something of worth for Konerko and Contreras (although they wouldn't bring back very much at this time). Some of the relievers would have to bring back something, too.

[Milkman delivers]

Milkman,

 

The last time the Sox tried to rebuild Id consider the "White Flag" trade.

 

How did the fans react to that?

 

Point taken. But, at some point, a rebuild will have to be necessary. We don't have the resources of the Red Sox and Yankees. Those are the kinds of teams that don't have to rebuild because of the outrageous amount of money they can put out there. Eventually, we'll have to rebuild, and the fans will just have to deal with it. I'm sure most of us would watch a rebuilding team, but I understand that a whole lot of people wouldn't.

[Dick Allen]

It wasnt sarcasm, there is no way Griffey does not start yesterdays game. In terms of marketing presence, Ken Griffey is the biggest name on the South Side in years. He was a legitimate superstar that brings fans to the game.

 

I went to last nights game, I cant even imagine how the 35k+ fans would have reacted to Griffey not playing.

That was the Cubs' formula for years. Sammy and Grace, who cares about the game.Brooks Boyer does not have more pull in terms of the White Sox line-up than the baseball people. If the White Sox played Griffey last night do in any portion to PR, I would be very upset. The old saying is keep doing what the fans want you to do and you wind up sitting next to them.

[Soxbadger]

If the White Sox played Griffey last night do in any portion to PR, I would be very upset.

 

Really?

 

Have you ever seen a starter sat on opening day for match ups?

 

My guess is no because the bottom line is sports is a business, and entertainment is that business. There would have been way more people upset that Ken Griffey Jr. did not play last night, than he did play for the wrong reason.

 

Its not about Brooks Boyer, its about the owners of the White Sox. Last I checked they were running a business, "goodwill" means something and playing Griffey last night was goodwill. Thousands of fans came to see him play, Sox werent going to let down their fans.

 

Just my opinion, but I believe that under no circumstances Griffey was sitting yesterday.

[greg775]

If the White Sox played Griffey last night do in any portion to PR, I would be very upset.

 

I'm saying you don't acquire Griffey to sit him in his home opener. That would be really strange if not dumb. Why acquire him then? It would have been bizarre.

[witesoxfan]

Well, fortunately I'm not the GM and I don't have to come up with the specifics.

 

I'd actually take Jenks off the no-trade list. He seems like a guy who can be sold high on before he drops off too much. And dumping Dye would be justified if we were going to do a sort of rebuild, as he'd be useless to a rebuilding team and would bring a nice package back in a trade. I'd definitely trade Vazquez, and hope to get something of worth for Konerko and Contreras (although they wouldn't bring back very much at this time). Some of the relievers would have to bring back something, too.

 

For f***'s sake, the Sox aren't the goddamn Marlins. You don't trade every player over 28 and trade them for any valuable piece of prospect you can. The Sox have money to spend and I would bet good money that you see both Dye and Thome in the opening day lineup come next season. Rebuilding is not an option at this point, and the word "rebuild" means nothing to Kenny Williams unless it comes in terms of a building or structure they want rebuilt.

 

And I'd also bet a great amount of money Vazquez is back next year. KW has a super 'Peter North' hard-on for Vazquez and, if that didn't go away with 2006, it's not going away with a mediocre 2008 barring a catastrophic meltdown.

 

No, cancel any and all plans for a rebuild and stop thinking about it now. Think about ways you can beat the top teams in the AL for a World Series appearance in 2009, cuz otherwise you suck.

 

Point taken. But, at some point, a rebuild will have to be necessary. We don't have the resources of the Red Sox and Yankees. Those are the kinds of teams that don't have to rebuild because of the outrageous amount of money they can put out there. Eventually, we'll have to rebuild, and the fans will just have to deal with it. I'm sure most of us would watch a rebuilding team, but I understand that a whole lot of people wouldn't.

 

I'll disagree completely that a rebuild is necessary. I will also disagree with assumption that the Sox have limited resources (which is my assumption, seeing as how you are comparing the White Sox with the Sawkxzzzzzzzzz and the Yankzzzzzzz)...their payroll is in the top 7 or 8 and it's over $100 mill...the Sox don't rebuild; they spend wisely and occasionally have bad seasons. Perhaps the Sox will have to rebuild, but with Alexei for 3 years, Quentin, Danks, and Floyd for 3 years, and Swisher until 2012 (BUT HE HITS .230 HE SUCKS) (till whenever), the Sox have a fantastic core to build around and the word rebuild has never and will never enter my scope of reality, nor should it KW's. If those guys fizzle out, F*** IT, find someone else who fits the bill. It's not that big of deal.

 

No, stop saying rebuild or rebuilding or whatever version of the word you want to use with a first place team that has several pieces to work with towards the future. Stop. Please. Stop now. Stop.

 

 

 

 

Stop.

 

 

 

 

Stop.

 

Now.

 

Really?

 

Have you ever seen a starter sat on opening day for match ups?

 

Yep. Pablo Ozuna against CC Sabathia, last season. Bad season, but it's happened in the past and Ozzie loves his matchups. Podsednik started the next game. Erstad still sucked through all of eternity, though thankfully he's from North Dakota and he sucks superass.

 

He also knows Griffey is GRIFFEY and will do whatever because it's GRIFFEY.

 

[Soxbadger]

I guess my post should have said a "super star" starter sit on opening day.

 

Pods had 2 good seasons and a lot of meh seasons.

[YASNY]

I guess my post should have said a "super star" starter sit on opening day.

 

Pods had 2 good seasons and a lot of meh seasons.

 

The 2008 AL MVP didn't start on Opening Day.

[Soxbadger]

He played on the Sox opening day, I know I was there to see him.

 

Maybe it was not clear, but I was comparing Griffey playing his first home game, to the White Sox playing their home opener (opening day for the Sox at home). CQ was on the field that day, although Ramirez was not.

 

 

[Kyyle23]

He played on the Sox opening day, I know I was there to see him.

 

Maybe it was not clear, but I was comparing Griffey playing his first home game, to the White Sox playing their home opener (opening day for the Sox at home). CQ was on the field that day, although Ramirez was not.

 

The way I look at it, managers put players in a position to succeed in order to win. Griffey was facing off against a lefthander, and continued to face tough lefthanders for the rest of the game until extra innings, where he faced a nearly unhittable Rodney, he really wasnt in a position to succeed

 

I wouldnt have minded if Griffey say vs Robertson and faced verlander, I am not of the "He is Griffey so you must play him" mindset

[YASNY]

He played on the Sox opening day, I know I was there to see him.

 

Maybe it was not clear, but I was comparing Griffey playing his first home game, to the White Sox playing their home opener (opening day for the Sox at home). CQ was on the field that day, although Ramirez was not.

 

Okay. I got it now.

[Milkman delivers]

For f***'s sake, the Sox aren't the goddamn Marlins. You don't trade every player over 28 and trade them for any valuable piece of prospect you can. The Sox have money to spend and I would bet good money that you see both Dye and Thome in the opening day lineup come next season. Rebuilding is not an option at this point, and the word "rebuild" means nothing to Kenny Williams unless it comes in terms of a building or structure they want rebuilt.

 

And I'd also bet a great amount of money Vazquez is back next year. KW has a super 'Peter North' hard-on for Vazquez and, if that didn't go away with 2006, it's not going away with a mediocre 2008 barring a catastrophic meltdown.

 

No, cancel any and all plans for a rebuild and stop thinking about it now. Think about ways you can beat the top teams in the AL for a World Series appearance in 2009, cuz otherwise you suck.

 

 

 

I'll disagree completely that a rebuild is necessary. I will also disagree with assumption that the Sox have limited resources (which is my assumption, seeing as how you are comparing the White Sox with the Sawkxzzzzzzzzz and the Yankzzzzzzz)...their payroll is in the top 7 or 8 and it's over $100 mill...the Sox don't rebuild; they spend wisely and occasionally have bad seasons. Perhaps the Sox will have to rebuild, but with Alexei for 3 years, Quentin, Danks, and Floyd for 3 years, and Swisher until 2012 (BUT HE HITS .230 HE SUCKS) (till whenever), the Sox have a fantastic core to build around and the word rebuild has never and will never enter my scope of reality, nor should it KW's. If those guys fizzle out, F*** IT, find someone else who fits the bill. It's not that big of deal.

 

No, stop saying rebuild or rebuilding or whatever version of the word you want to use with a first place team that has several pieces to work with towards the future. Stop. Please. Stop now. Stop.

 

 

 

 

Stop.

 

 

 

 

Stop.

 

Now.

 

 

 

Yep. Pablo Ozuna against CC Sabathia, last season. Bad season, but it's happened in the past and Ozzie loves his matchups. Podsednik started the next game. Erstad still sucked through all of eternity, though thankfully he's from North Dakota and he sucks superass.

 

He also knows Griffey is GRIFFEY and will do whatever because it's GRIFFEY.

 

Rebuild

 

I'm only saying, every team has to eventually consider rebuilding when the players just become too old. The few exceptions are the ones I mentioned, with the ridiculously unfair payrolls.