Man held in Fla. for threatening Obama's life

[HuskyCaucasian]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26077318/

A man is being held in Florida by federal authorities on charges of threatening to assassinate Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama.

 

Raymond Hunter Geisel was ordered held without bail Thursday at a brief court hearing.

 

The Secret Service says Geisel made the threat during a training class for bail bondsmen in Miami in late July. Another tipster said Geisel also threatened President Bush.

 

A search of Geisel's SUV and hotel room uncovered a loaded handgun, knives, dozens of rounds of ammunition, body armor and a machete. The SUV was wired with emergency lights.

 

Geisel told the Secret Service he was originally from Bangor, Maine. He contended he made no threat against either Obama or the president.

[BigSqwert]

I wonder if this guy is a redneck?

[Kyyle23]

The Secret Service says Geisel made the threat during a training class for bail bondsmen in Miami in late July. Another tipster said Geisel also threatened President Bush.

 

Well, he doesnt look like he is going by political party. He just doesnt seem to like politics in general

[mr_genius]

I wonder if this guy is a redneck?

 

na, a redneck would never do this

 

Geisel also threatened President Bush.

[YASNY]

I wonder if this guy is a redneck?

 

Does Maine produce rednecks?

[juddling]

Does Maine produce rednecks?

 

 

not sure about that, but they do have some skinheads....maine skinheads

[southsider2k5]

I watched this story on CNN yesterday and was totally shocked by it. The part that amazed me was that he also threatened to kill someone else important... Who was it? Oh yeah, the guy who is actually the President of the United States... It was a complete afterthought in the story.

[BearSox]

I watched this story on CNN yesterday and was totally shocked by it. The part that amazed me was that he also threatened to kill someone else important... Who was it? Oh yeah, the guy who is actually the President of the United States... It was a complete afterthought in the story.

I'm pretty sure that Obama is already the president for all of the MSM.

Edited August 8, 2008 by BearSox

[BigSqwert]

I'm pretty sure that Obama is already the president for all of the MSM.

Well we all know it's a foregone conclusion.

[Jenksismyhero]

I watched this story on CNN yesterday and was totally shocked by it. The part that amazed me was that he also threatened to kill someone else important... Who was it? Oh yeah, the guy who is actually the President of the United States... It was a complete afterthought in the story.

 

 

I love the fact that he made essentially the same "threatening" comments to both Bush and Obama, and they only charged him with threatnening the candidate. Also, the fact that they used his "weapons" as proof of his intent, notwithstanding the fact that he owned them and was in a bailbondsman class when the comments were made.

 

If I were this kid, I'd hire myself a real good lawyer and sue the pants off the government.

[southsider2k5]

I love the fact that he made essentially the same "threatening" comments to both Bush and Obama, and they only charged him with threatnening the candidate. Also, the fact that they used his "weapons" as proof of his intent, notwithstanding the fact that he owned them and was in a bailbondsman class when the comments were made.

 

If I were this kid, I'd hire myself a real good lawyer and sue the pants off the government.

 

Especially when you factor in that even talking about killing the President is a federal offense.

[NorthSideSox72]

Especially when you factor in that even talking about killing the President is a federal offense.

Which is why I think we are missing some key parts of the story here. The Secret Service did the investigating, not the MSM, and I don't think the USSS has any great preference for Obama over Bush. Possibly even the opposite. So if this guy is being charged over the Obama comment and not the Bush one, I can almost guarantee you that there are important differences in what was said about each one by the suspect.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Which is why I think we are missing some key parts of the story here. The Secret Service did the investigating, not the MSM, and I don't think the USSS has any great preference for Obama over Bush. Possibly even the opposite. So if this guy is being charged over the Obama comment and not the Bush one, I can almost guarantee you that there are important differences in what was said about each one by the suspect.

 

Actually, not really. Here's a copy of the affidavit: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years...7081obama1.html

 

Basically there's not much more than what was in the news article (in terms of threats) and you learn some other things that were not in the article: that some of the weapons and ammunition that were found in the car were in a safe and that all of the weapons were legally in his possession and legal to own (including the armor piercing rounds).

 

So, basically this is an incredibly scary situation, IMO. Not that he shouldn't have been questioned, or watched closely, but the fact that they deem a couple of cracks to classmates and some legally owned weapons probably cause to charge and detain him... I thought the Alien and Sedition Acts went away a long time ago...

[NorthSideSox72]

Actually, not really. Here's a copy of the affidavit: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years...7081obama1.html

 

Basically there's not much more than what was in the news article (in terms of threats) and you learn some other things that were not in the article: that some of the weapons and ammunition that were found in the car were in a safe and that all of the weapons were legally in his possession and legal to own (including the armor piercing rounds).

 

So, basically this is an incredibly scary situation, IMO. Not that he shouldn't have been questioned, or watched closely, but the fact that they deem a couple of cracks to classmates and some legally owned weapons probably cause to charge and detain him... I thought the Alien and Sedition Acts went away a long time ago...

Actually, check point 6 in the Affidavit, and its exactly what I was referring to. He made a threatening comment towards Obama, directly to a USSS agent (which has to be on the top 10 list of stupid things one can do to get themselves arrested). The in point 12, you have a witness statement about Giesel making a specific and life-threatening comment towards Obama.

 

This versus the only Bush mention is in point 13, is not a direct quote, and was not said directly to a federal agent. Plus the President reference is not clearly attached to Bush there (which is just poor writing by the agent who filed the report).

 

This is all why point 17 suggests prosecution of the threat against Obama - its a much stronger case. The Bush comment was just "hate", and then a general comment about killing a President.

 

By the way, something else worth pointing out that few people know... The USSS has special legal privileges for search, seizure and detention that no other agency of government at any level has. If it pertains to a case of a threat against the executive, they can do all those things without a warrant or permission. They do not require a warrant, or felony-in-commission, or wingspan, or any of the other various warrant exceptions. They can, if they elect to, just do it.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Actually, check point 6 in the Affidavit, and its exactly what I was referring to. He made a threatening comment towards Obama, directly to a USSS agent (which has to be on the top 10 list of stupid things one can do to get themselves arrested). The in point 12, you have a witness statement about Giesel making a specific and life-threatening comment towards Obama.

 

This versus the only Bush mention is in point 13, is not a direct quote, and was not said directly to a federal agent. Plus the President reference is not clearly attached to Bush there (which is just poor writing by the agent who filed the report).

 

This is all why point 17 suggests prosecution of the threat against Obama - its a much stronger case. The Bush comment was just "hate", and then a general comment about killing a President.

 

By the way, something else worth pointing out that few people know... The USSS has special legal privileges for search, seizure and detention that no other agency of government at any level has. If it pertains to a case of a threat against the executive, they can do all those things without a warrant or permission. They do not require a warrant, or felony-in-commission, or wingspan, or any of the other various warrant exceptions. They can, if they elect to, just do it.

 

I don't want to take this guys side - so lets get that out there first - but to your points:

 

I don't see how Paragraph 6 is a direct threat. He denied making the threats, then said (probably in a joking manner, which as you say is the dumbest thing you can do, but still), that if he wanted to kill him he'd use a sniper rifle....that's a stretch to mean "i want to go kill obama." I've heard comedians saythings 20 times worse towards Bush and you don't see the USSS rush in and arrest them (and remember they questioned him and then searched his car/room on the basis of those comments, nothing else).

 

Moreover I like the fact that Paragraph 17 claims he was threatening to kidnap, even though he never said that (if he did, i must have glanced over that, but I didn't find it anywhere in that affidavit).

 

I guess I just feel this is totally weak. It's linking together some racist guys comments and his weapons and assuming he's going to do something about it. Again, i'm not saying he shouldn't have been questioned or that he shouldn't have been followed/watched, but i think detaining him is an entirely different thing.

[NorthSideSox72]

I don't want to take this guys side - so lets get that out there first - but to your points:

 

I don't see how Paragraph 6 is a direct threat. He denied making the threats, then said (probably in a joking manner, which as you say is the dumbest thing you can do, but still), that if he wanted to kill him he'd use a sniper rifle....that's a stretch to mean "i want to go kill obama." I've heard comedians saythings 20 times worse towards Bush and you don't see the USSS rush in and arrest them (and remember they questioned him and then searched his car/room on the basis of those comments, nothing else).

 

Moreover I like the fact that Paragraph 17 claims he was threatening to kidnap, even though he never said that (if he did, i must have glanced over that, but I didn't find it anywhere in that affidavit).

 

I guess I just feel this is totally weak. It's linking together some racist guys comments and his weapons and assuming he's going to do something about it. Again, i'm not saying he shouldn't have been questioned or that he shouldn't have been followed/watched, but i think detaining him is an entirely different thing.

Eh, I could see it going either way. You can't joke around about that anyway, and sure as hell not to a USSS agent. I think the facts that he is mentally unstable and very well armed may have contributed to the decision to arrest him.

 

And I agree the report has some issues, as I pointed one out myself. Sometimes cops, even ones in a high level agency like the USSS, are really poor writers. Not really considered a core competency for the job, though perhaps it should be.