Short on answers

[joeynach]

There is no doubt this team is pretty banged up and probably wont be 100% for the rest of the year. Its starting to catch up with this team, bad bullpen, bad starting pitching, weak 3B. So the question is where are the answers. Getting rid of Massett and sending Boone down is a great start, those were both non productive members of the pen. Getting Linebrink back would be a big boost, but we need more if we are really gonna win this division. Uribe's glove is nice at 3B and fields was really becoming a liability there. Hopefully Crede can come back and be productive, but its looks like thats 50/50 with his recent setback. We could really use a solid replacement in the rotation. Do we try and rely on guys like Rusell, Broadway, Poreda, etc or do we try and hit the waiver wire with Maddux, Washburn, or Byrd. I think Maddux would get killed in our ballpark but Washburn might be OK. Are we really anchoring the problems in our pen with Horacio Ramirez, what options do we have. This is huge for KW and the team....the next few moves we make could make us or break us. Either way its going to interseting, but I just dont know if there is enough in our minor leagues or via the waiver wire to solidify this team enough. Seems like we are kind of short answers!

[Kalapse]

Maddux wouldn't come here anyway (he really only wants to play for the Padres or Dodgers) plus he sucks and Washburn would get absolutely destroyed in the Cell with his ultra flyball style.

[beck72]

I say go with the vet SP. Byrd has thrown well of late. Over on the Indians MLB board, they attribute Byrd going 4-0 in his last four starts, and good July and August, to improved mechanics--not him just getting old and bad. They also can't believe a contender hasn't picked him up yet. Also, people their are talking about re-signing him. Of the names mentioned, including the minor leaguers, why not Byrd. Byrd's problem is the long ball. But he's improved on that the last two months, and his ERA is down as a result.

 

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx...s&tid=43597

[beck72]

Tomo Ohka has thrown well of late. Esp. in the bullpen. Try Ohka in set up/ long relief until Thursday. With Carrasco used up, the sox will need someone who can throw long relief. Carrasco could possibly take Jose's place then.

 

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/st...&pid=219594

[kwolf68]

 

No minor league talent (or very little) means we go with what we got. Oh well, it's not like we didn't know Crede had a bum back and half the rest of the team was aging (fast). If EVERYTHING went perfectly, the Sox were ok, but it's not going perfectly. I don't know what Massett, Richar + player could have brought us in the way of pitching depth, but I'd rather have had that than slow-footed OF depth.

[caulfield12]

No minor league talent (or very little) means we go with what we got. Oh well, it's not like we didn't know Crede had a bum back and half the rest of the team was aging (fast). If EVERYTHING went perfectly, the Sox were ok, but it's not going perfectly. I don't know what Massett, Richar + player could have brought us in the way of pitching depth, but I'd rather have had that than slow-footed OF depth.

 

 

Well, I would guess the best we could do is someone who is fatally-flawed, like Joey Gathright.

 

Maybe Rocco Baldelli?

 

We can just be happy that KW wasn't ever very serious about acquiring Andruw Jones or Gary Mathews, Jr.

 

Pitching, pitching, pitching...back in 2000/01, we had "waves and waves" of pitchers on the horizon, and the only ones that "took" were Garland and Buehrle.

Think about it...Rauch, Parque, Ginter, Myette, Danny Wright, Brian West, Lorenzo Barcelo, etc.

 

Now we've had two more first rounders (Broadway and McCullough) basically fail to make much of an impact...so it's not a surprise we're in this position, and, no, I don't think Gio Gonzalez was ready to lead us to the playoffs either.

 

Essentially, the White Sox had to have everything break right for them this season...and that was the case for 2/3rd's of the year, with Floyd and Danks pitching better than anyone could have conceived (outside of the front office) and Ramirez and Quentin playing like All-Star/MVP candidates despite both essentially being rookies.

 

While this White Sox line-up remainds dangerous, and has the pitching at the front to make a run in the playoffs if everyone was on fire simultaneously, I just don't see how things can hold up for another 50 games. Over the last two months, I've been looking over my shoulder waiting for the Twins to catch us, yet not believing it was possible, with the losses of Liriano, Hunter, Santana, Cuddyer, etc. It seems they are always better than their statistics...maybe they are due to cool off though, they're batting well over .300 with RISP, which is first in the majors. That's the kind of statistic that doesn't hold up forever. I keep waiting for that young starting rotation to show some cracks in the foundation, but it has been our rotation that has "blinked" first. All that said, we're still only 1/2 game behind and the Twins are about to play the Yankees at home, then go on their longest and most demanding road trip of the year (due to the GOP NC).

 

 

 

[Texsox]

It seems that it takes catching lightening in a bottle to win a championship. 2005 saw a rookie closer perform beyond all expectations. Doesn't matter who we roll the dice with, the available options are all fraught with more questions then answers and all a longish shots to be productive. Fishing farther up the food chain for a more proven SP will result in digging a hole somewhere else. Here's to getting lucky

[caulfield12]

It seems that it takes catching lightening in a bottle to win a championship. 2005 saw a rookie closer perform beyond all expectations. Doesn't matter who we roll the dice with, the available options are all fraught with more questions then answers and all a longish shots to be productive. Fishing farther up the food chain for a more proven SP will result in digging a hole somewhere else. Here's to getting lucky

 

Yeah, we got Jenks for free...and we lucked out with Hermanson, Politte and Cotts that year...everything just went right. Pods stayed healthy for enough of the season to build up that huge lead.

 

I don't know much about Poreda...but Jenks was consistently ranked one of the Angels' best prospects before he forced their hand with his behavior, like the Rays cutting ties with Josh Hamilton. I tend to think someone like Poreda, or Joel Zumaya, who don't have much in the way of secondary pitches...are going to get tagged. But I'll try to think optimistically.

[Milkman delivers]

There is no doubt this team is pretty banged up and probably wont be 100% for the rest of the year. Its starting to catch up with this team, bad bullpen, bad starting pitching, weak 3B. So the question is where are the answers. Getting rid of Massett and sending Boone down is a great start, those were both non productive members of the pen. Getting Linebrink back would be a big boost, but we need more if we are really gonna win this division. Uribe's glove is nice at 3B and fields was really becoming a liability there. Hopefully Crede can come back and be productive, but its looks like thats 50/50 with his recent setback. We could really use a solid replacement in the rotation. Do we try and rely on guys like Rusell, Broadway, Poreda, etc or do we try and hit the waiver wire with Maddux, Washburn, or Byrd. I think Maddux would get killed in our ballpark but Washburn might be OK. Are we really anchoring the problems in our pen with Horacio Ramirez, what options do we have. This is huge for KW and the team....the next few moves we make could make us or break us. Either way its going to interseting, but I just dont know if there is enough in our minor leagues or via the waiver wire to solidify this team enough. Seems like we are kind of short answers!

 

If those are the choices, I'd say Byrd is clearly the best bet.

 

Even if we were to make the playoffs, I can't see us doing very much against the Angels or Rays. The Angels, especially, seem like a team that is well out of our league.

[joejoesox]

doesn't matter, unless we somehow overtake 1st place with our record in the AL over the angels, we're going to be playing as the road team in every series. And with our homerun or nothing style... it will be a quick exit. this team's heavy reliance on the homerun simply does not adjust well to other ballparks, and when we don't homerun at home, we lose by large margins (see last nights game)

[caulfield12]

doesn't matter, unless we somehow overtake 1st place with our record in the AL over the angels, we're going to be playing as the road team in every series. And with our homerun or nothing style... it will be a quick exit. this team's heavy reliance on the homerun simply does not adjust well to other ballparks, and when we don't homerun at home, we lose by large margins (see last nights game)

 

 

When we don't hit at least two homers at home. I think that particular statistic is both quite dramatic and quite telling.

 

Thome had a meaningless homer late in the game.

[Jake]

A common theme on WS teams is unlikely heroes, people playing over their heads. You could say the Sox have had some of them already, I think we need another soon to cap off our run to the playoffs.

[westy21]

There is no doubt this team is pretty banged up and probably wont be 100% for the rest of the year. Its starting to catch up with this team, bad bullpen, bad starting pitching, weak 3B. So the question is where are the answers. Getting rid of Massett and sending Boone down is a great start, those were both non productive members of the pen. Getting Linebrink back would be a big boost, but we need more if we are really gonna win this division. Uribe's glove is nice at 3B and fields was really becoming a liability there. Hopefully Crede can come back and be productive, but its looks like thats 50/50 with his recent setback. We could really use a solid replacement in the rotation. Do we try and rely on guys like Rusell, Broadway, Poreda, etc or do we try and hit the waiver wire with Maddux, Washburn, or Byrd. I think Maddux would get killed in our ballpark but Washburn might be OK. Are we really anchoring the problems in our pen with Horacio Ramirez, what options do we have. This is huge for KW and the team....the next few moves we make could make us or break us. Either way its going to interseting, but I just dont know if there is enough in our minor leagues or via the waiver wire to solidify this team enough. Seems like we are kind of short answers!

 

the AL would eat Maddux alive

 

[letsgoarow]

Well, I would guess the best we could do is someone who is fatally-flawed, like Joey Gathright.

 

Maybe Rocco Baldelli?

 

We can just be happy that KW wasn't ever very serious about acquiring Andruw Jones or Gary Mathews, Jr.

 

Pitching, pitching, pitching...back in 2000/01, we had "waves and waves" of pitchers on the horizon, and the only ones that "took" were Garland and Buehrle.

Think about it...Rauch, Parque, Ginter, Myette, Danny Wright, Brian West, Lorenzo Barcelo, etc.

 

Now we've had two more first rounders (Broadway and McCullough) basically fail to make much of an impact...so it's not a surprise we're in this position, and, no, I don't think Gio Gonzalez was ready to lead us to the playoffs either.

 

Essentially, the White Sox had to have everything break right for them this season...and that was the case for 2/3rd's of the year, with Floyd and Danks pitching better than anyone could have conceived (outside of the front office) and Ramirez and Quentin playing like All-Star/MVP candidates despite both essentially being rookies.

 

While this White Sox line-up remainds dangerous, and has the pitching at the front to make a run in the playoffs if everyone was on fire simultaneously, I just don't see how things can hold up for another 50 games. Over the last two months, I've been looking over my shoulder waiting for the Twins to catch us, yet not believing it was possible, with the losses of Liriano, Hunter, Santana, Cuddyer, etc. It seems they are always better than their statistics...maybe they are due to cool off though, they're batting well over .300 with RISP, which is first in the majors. That's the kind of statistic that doesn't hold up forever. I keep waiting for that young starting rotation to show some cracks in the foundation, but it has been our rotation that has "blinked" first. All that said, we're still only 1/2 game behind and the Twins are about to play the Yankees at home, then go on their longest and most demanding road trip of the year (due to the GOP NC).

 

Rocco was on the team i work for. He was here for about 3 weeks, and trust me we do not want him. He is literally about as slow as Konerko now. He was slower than our first basemen. Hes got a little bit of power, but he runs with a piano on his back. He also doesnt really play the field anymore. He played some games in RF but mostly was our DH. He has a cell disorder, and cant catch his breath. He could do nothing to help us.

[beck72]

the sox still aren't in that bad of a position injury wise. They're missing one SP. Crede and Linebrink should make it back in the next few weeks. They've been missed, but sox really haven't lost much ground with those 2 out. If the sox don't make the playoffs, will it be because Contreras is done for the year? If the other starters pitch like they have been--with slight improvement--and the bullpen rebounds, they'll be OK.

 

The lineup is otherwise pretty healthy and should be ready to put up solid numbers for the next month and a half. Some people are now lamenting the Griffey trade. Yet it has allowed the sox to rest Thome, PK, Swisher and Dye a bit. Having those guys ready for the stretch run could be key if the pitching doesn't rebound.

[caulfield12]

the sox still aren't in that bad of a position injury wise. They're missing one SP. Crede and Linebrink should make it back in the next few weeks. They've been missed, but sox really haven't lost much ground with those 2 out. If the sox don't make the playoffs, will it be because Contreras is done for the year? If the other starters pitch like they have been--with slight improvement--and the bullpen rebounds, they'll be OK.

 

The lineup is otherwise pretty healthy and should be ready to put up solid numbers for the next month and a half. Some people are now lamenting the Griffey trade. Yet it has allowed the sox to rest Thome, PK, Swisher and Dye a bit. Having those guys ready for the stretch run could be key if the pitching doesn't rebound.

 

 

Well, a 6.17 ERA over the last 23 games from the starters definitely hasn't helped, that's for sure.

 

In some sense, it's amazing we are still within one-half game, if you look at it from that perspective. We've basically been treading water, between 12-16 games over .500, for much of the last two months. If we can stay within 2-3 games before Minnesota goes on their 14 game road trip (starting on August 21st), we should be okay.

 

I am a LITTLE more optimistic about Crede than Linebrink after I read somewhere (suntimes) that Joe felt much better and had exchanged e-mails or text messages with KW to that affect.

Edited August 10, 2008 by caulfield12

[joeynach]

Well look on the bright side on losing Jose. It will force the Sox hand to acquire another starting pitcher, perhaps not for 08, but defiantly for 09. That means we will probably get someone younger and more talented that isn't a liability in holding runners on or covering 1st base. Im not happy Contreras is gone, but sometimes this stuff and turn out to be a blessing in disguise if it forces KW to do what he does, go out there get creative in bring in someone we thought we weren't going to get. Could work out well for 2009.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Well look on the bright side on losing Jose. It will force the Sox hand to acquire another starting pitcher, perhaps not for 08, but defiantly for 09. That means we will probably get someone younger and more talented that isn't a liability in holding runners on or covering 1st base. Im not happy Contreras is gone, but sometimes this stuff and turn out to be a blessing in disguise if it forces KW to do what he does, go out there get creative in bring in someone we thought we weren't going to get. Could work out well for 2009.

As I posted in another thread, I would have Thornton try out for one of the starting slots next spring.

[WCSox]

Well look on the bright side on losing Jose. It will force the Sox hand to acquire another starting pitcher, perhaps not for 08, but defiantly for 09. That means we will probably get someone younger and more talented

 

I don't know about more talented, but at the very least it'll force Kenny to get somebody less injury-prone. I really appreciate what Jose has done for this team, but I was really hoping that Kenny would deal him this winter, regardless of how he may have pitched down the stretch. In that regard, Jose's injury just moved up the inevitable.

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Unless Crede comes back with a bang like he did after going down in 2005, he's not much of a loss at all. Uribe seems to be more reliable at third than Crede was, and even though he's clutch, Crede's still a pop-up machine.

 

The big injuries here are Contreras and Linebrink. Those hurt a TON. Crede IMO is not even a factor at this point.

 

Hopefully Ramirez for Logan will prove to be an upgrade, Carrasco for Masset will continue to be an upgrade, Russell will survive until Linebrink gets back, and KW picks up a Major League starter that allows the Sox to play .500 baseball in his starts for the rest of the year.

 

Overall I'm not all that worried, although if I had any expectations whatsoever for this year's team I'd be freaking out - and not because of the Twins, who for the first time in seemingly forever are choking in opportunities to put the Sox behind them, but because it looks like we may very well have nothing left come playoff time.

[WilliamTell]

the AL would eat Maddux alive

 

Yeah now's not the time to switch leagues for Maddux.

[beck72]

Linebrink IMO has been the biggest lose to this team, and the effect has been rather large. Take last night for example. Granted, Thornton should have been in anyway, but in that situation, its Thornton, then Dotel, Then Line, then Jenks. Instead, everyone gets pushed up. Logan in for Thornton, Thornton in for Dotel, Dotel in for Linebrink. Players get exposed, and it cost us a win last night.

That's why the best argument for getting a vet to replace Jose is to keep the bullpen in the strongest shape possible. If a rook is thrown in there [or Carrasco] the bullpen will be extended again. Guys have already gotten moved around during both Jenks and Liney's absences. The bullpen was best when they knew their roles. With the injuries, that's been thrown out the window.

[beck72]

Well, a 6.17 ERA over the last 23 games from the starters definitely hasn't helped, that's for sure.

 

In some sense, it's amazing we are still within one-half game, if you look at it from that perspective. We've basically been treading water, between 12-16 games over .500, for much of the last two months. If we can stay within 2-3 games before Minnesota goes on their 14 game road trip (starting on August 21st), we should be okay.

 

I am a LITTLE more optimistic about Crede than Linebrink after I read somewhere (suntimes) that Joe felt much better and had exchanged e-mails or text messages with KW to that affect.

 

That's why having Griffey around has helped the sox, even if his numbers haven't been there. The big hitters have gotten some time off, and are hopefully ready physically for the stretch run.

 

That the sox haven't played well, have had their share of injuries, yet are still in 1st, is somewhat amazing.

[joeynach]

Unless Crede comes back with a bang like he did after going down in 2005, he's not much of a loss at all. Uribe seems to be more reliable at third than Crede was, and even though he's clutch, Crede's still a pop-up machine.

 

The big injuries here are Contreras and Linebrink. Those hurt a TON. Crede IMO is not even a factor at this point.

 

Hopefully Ramirez for Logan will prove to be an upgrade, Carrasco for Masset will continue to be an upgrade, Russell will survive until Linebrink gets back, and KW picks up a Major League starter that allows the Sox to play .500 baseball in his starts for the rest of the year.

 

Overall I'm not all that worried, although if I had any expectations whatsoever for this year's team I'd be freaking out - and not because of the Twins, who for the first time in seemingly forever are choking in opportunities to put the Sox behind them, but because it looks like we may very well have nothing left come playoff time.

 

I agree with you on Crede, there is something to be said for the patented Joe Crede infield Pop up. Its kills us when he does that about 1-2 times per game. Its not as if Uribe has awsome at bats either, but were almost out of options here. Pablo had better and more productive at bats, but was a liability with his glove. Fields also turned into a liability with his glove and didn't really seems to have a ll that productive at bats either.

[greg775]

I agree with you on Crede, there is something to be said for the patented Joe Crede infield Pop up. Its kills us when he does that about 1-2 times per game

 

Tough crowd as usual.

Crede's numbers in a season when he's coming back from serious back surgery

255 .323 .474 .797 .

He has 17 homers and 54 RBIs. He was on the all-star team. But he's a pop up machine. I get it.