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TCQ vs Hamilton (MVP Debate @ ESPN)


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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 11:49 AM)
Thanks for pointing out the chat, I just got a question in.

 

mine didnt go through ;(

 

it was in regards to game-tying/go-ahead RBI's (i.e. Clutch). Isn't quentin leading the league in those categories?

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QUOTE (joesaiditstrue @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 10:51 AM)
mine didnt go through ;(

 

it was in regards to game-tying/go-ahead RBI's (i.e. Clutch). Isn't quentin leading the league in those categories?

If you use the "Close and late" split on ESPN, he's in a 4 way MLB-wide tie for 3rd, notably with Carlos Pena, in RBI in those cases He's at 19. Hamilton is at 15, but Quentin actually has 6 more AB's in those spots than JH.

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QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 10:53 AM)
So unbelievable that we're seeing this thread for a guy who originally was slated to not make the team. In a sense was behind Owens, Anderson and Alexei for outfield time.

Quentin was never behind Anderson.

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QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 11:53 AM)
So unbelievable that we're seeing this thread for a guy who originally was slated to not make the team. In a sense was behind Owens, Anderson and Alexei for outfield time.

 

this season is going to be a positive when it's all said and done, for me. even if we miss the playoffs/world series

 

with being able to see young stars on our team play amazing baseball (Gavin, Danks, Quentin, Alexei), hopefully it's a sign of things to come

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 11:55 AM)
Quentin was never behind Anderson.

 

Actually, you're right, and the reason is b/c Ozzie favored CQ from the start, saw his work ethic. With Anderson's spring, most other managers would have given BA the reins.

 

Good thing Ozzie dislikes BA enough.

Edited by Princess Dye
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Just for the sake of reference:

           G   AB   R    H   2B  3B   HR   RBI   BB   SO   AVG   OBP   SLG   OPS

Hamilton 115 462 77 140 26 3 28 111 47 90 .303 .367 .554 .921

Quentin 113 420 82 120 21 1 32 90 50 68 .286 .383 .569 .952

 

MEN ON AB PA AVG OBP SLG OPS

Hamilton 228 261 .316 .368 .627 .995

Quentin 172 210 .349 .452 .651 1.104

 

 

RISP AB PA AVG OBP SLG OPS

Hamilton 138 165 .326 .382 .659 1.041

Quentin 102 130 .324 .446 .588 1.034

 

 

2 OUTS AB PA AVG OBP SLG OPS

Hamilton 182 201 .313 .378 .615 .993

Quentin 147 167 .286 .371 .551 .922

 

 

2 OUT RISP AB PA AVG OBP SLG OPS

Hamilton 63 69 .365 .420 .857 1.277

Quentin 39 47 .282 .404 .513 .917

 

 

Close&LATE AB PA AVG OBP SLG OPS

Hamilton 59 72 .288 .375 .559 .934

Quentin 65 76 .354 .447 .754 1.201

 

 

High Lev AB PA AVG OBP SLG OPS

Hamilton 81 91 .309 .363 .593 .955

Quentin 74 91 .351 .462 .784 1.254

 

 

INN 7-9 AB PA AVG OBP SLG OPS

Hamilton 123 147 .317 .401 .537 .938

Quentin 119 143 .328 .434 .681 1.114

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QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 11:53 AM)
So unbelievable that we're seeing this thread for a guy who originally was slated to not make the team. In a sense was behind Owens, Anderson and Alexei for outfield time.

 

It sucks for him personally, but Owens injury was the best thing that happened to this team this year. Who knows how long it would have taken to get Quentin into the starting lineup if Owens started the year out there.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 11:55 AM)
If you use the "Close and late" split on ESPN, he's in a 4 way MLB-wide tie for 3rd, notably with Carlos Pena, in RBI in those cases He's at 19. Hamilton is at 15, but Quentin actually has 6 more AB's in those spots than JH.

An interesting stat that Stark mentioned: Hamilton has had 51 more runners on base than Quentin (261-210). So Hamilton has had 24% more chances for knocking runners in, essentially. No surprise, as he has better hitters hitting ahead of him than CQ does. That helps to explain why Hamilton also has 23% more RBIs.

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QUOTE (JorgeFabregas @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 02:13 PM)
An interesting stat that Stark mentioned: Hamilton has had 51 more runners on base than Quentin (261-210). So Hamilton has had 24% more chances for knocking runners in, essentially. No surprise, as he has better hitters hitting ahead of him than CQ does. That helps to explain why Hamilton also has 23% more RBIs.

A textbook example of why RBI should not be used as a metric to compare players. RBI is the product of a bunch of other factors, the only one a player can control that has a direct effect on RBI total is how many HRs he hits.

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As it stands, Quentin leads Hamilton in every single meaningful offensive category, plus his team is in first. If things stay the way they are, Quentin looks like the clear winner.

 

But he didn't do drugs, oh wait.

 

I think Hamilton's story is nice, but his past shouldn't affect MVP voting, in my opinion.

Edited by Sox It To Em
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QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 10:53 AM)
So unbelievable that we're seeing this thread for a guy who originally was slated to not make the team. In a sense was behind Owens, Anderson and Alexei for outfield time.

 

I can't tell you how many D'Backs fans were pizzed when that trade was made with what they ended up agreeing on with Byrnes, and the rest of the D'Backs fans are pizzed now whenever Quentin is mentioned on the radio, tv, etc. They loved him here in Phoenix and preferred Byrnes be traded.

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QUOTE (Cali @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 02:38 PM)
I think CQ should get it cause he's been more valuable to his team than Hamilton. Carlos basically carried the team through April and May. Hamilton has Young Kinsler and Bradley helping him....

 

Carlos has basically carried this team day in and day out. It was just yesterday when you actually felt that the Quentin-Dye-Thome trio is nothing to be messing with.

 

CQ not only leads in most of the offensive categories, but he has done an awesome job in LF. He is a smart player all around and if he keeps it up (which I think he will) he will have the MVP on lockdown. Hamilton has nothing to look forward except racking up all kinds of RBI's, but in Quentin's case he has all kinds of things to look forward to if the team can clinch the Central.

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QUOTE (Sox It To Em @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 02:13 PM)
As it stands, Quentin leads Hamilton in every single meaningful offensive category, plus his team is in first. If things stay the way they are, Quentin looks like the clear winner.

 

But he didn't do drugs, oh wait.

 

I think Hamilton's story is nice, but his past shouldn't affect MVP voting, in my opinion.

 

Yeah, don't they have an award like, uh, oh I don't know... "comeback player of the year" for that???

 

SFF

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