TCQ vs Hamilton (MVP Debate @ ESPN)

[caulfield12]

Since it is BP, they will probably use their VORP rating as a discriminator:

 

1. ARod - 56.3

2. Kinsler - 54.8

3. Sizemore - 51.4

4. Huff - 49.2

5. Quentin - 48.1

6. Bradley - 47.4

7. Youkilis - 46.3

8. Hamilton - 45.5

9. Mauer - 42.3

10. Roberts - 41.6

 

With Texas, Cleveland, and Baltimore out of the running, it looks like it would be between ARod, CQ, and Youkilis.

 

 

Sam, Mike or Aubrey Huff? You've got to be kidding. By this theory, Baltimore should actually be good, they have two of the top ten players in baseball. It's one tool, but certainly not the be-all, end-all by any stretch of the imagination. If Huff even finishes in the top 10, or Roberts, I will be completely shocked. The one thing I do like it is seems to value catchers, middle infielders and CF's more highly. And I'm not exactly sure how Milton Bradley, who's basically a DH, is more difficult to replace than Josh Hamilton, who is a very solid defender with a strong arm? Morneau is fading, but he will definitely be in the Top 5 if the Twins win the division.

Edited August 19, 2008 by caulfield12

[lostfan]

In modern baseball, RBI is not and should not be a significant offensive category used as a metric for measuring players. There is only one way to guarantee yourself an RBI after an at-bat, and guess who leads in that category?

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Jon (Minny): Who are your top 3 AL MVP candidates as of right now?

 

Buster Olney: (1:36 PM ET ) As of today: 1. Carlos Quention. 2. Kevin Youkilis. 3. Joe Mauer.

 

From Buster Olney's chat this afternoon

[bmags]

It's good he can spell.

[joejoesox]

Jesse Rogers just did a country-wide poll, with fellow beat-writers/sports writers for all of the other american league teams, and in 100% of those asked, all had Quentin had #1 in the MVP voting if the season ended today. this included boston/newyork writers, as well as west coast and midwestern teams

 

ironically, nobody had ARod in the top 3 (looking at the numbers, it's far from ironic, but needless to say)

[SpringfieldFan]

In modern baseball, RBI is not and should not be a significant offensive category used as a metric for measuring players. There is only one way to guarantee yourself an RBI after an at-bat, and guess who leads in that category?

 

How about an RBI efficiency stat where you divide a players RBI by the number of players (plus the batter himself) who did not score on his at bat? For example, if a hitter hits a two run home run and then strikes out with the bases loaded, his RBI efficiency would be 2/4, or 0.500. I wish there were a way to look up each player's season LOB. If there were I would love to calculate this.

 

SFF

Edited August 19, 2008 by SpringfieldFan

[lostfan]

How about an RBI efficiency stat where you divide a players RBI by the number of players (plus the batter himself) who did not score on his at bat? For example, if a hitter hits a two run home run and then strikes out with the bases loaded, his RBI efficiency would be 2/4, or 0.500. I wish there were a way to look up each player's season LOB. If there were I would love to calculate this.

 

SFF

That's not a bad idea but I think that's bordering on too many numbers. There is already OPS with RISP which gives you a pretty good idea of how effective a guy is with runners on base.

[RME JICO]

How about an RBI efficiency stat where you divide a players RBI by the number of players (plus the batter himself) who did not score on his at bat? For example, if a hitter hits a two run home run and then strikes out with the bases loaded, his RBI efficiency would be 2/4, or 0.500. I wish there were a way to look up each player's season LOB. If there were I would love to calculate this.

 

SFF

Wouldn't it be 2/6 since you would be counting the batter as well?

 

OPS with Runners On seems to be good enough for this type of situation (Quentin has a 1.111 with Runners On, which is Nintendo-like).

 

I am sure if you just took RBI and divided by AB, you would get a pretty good indicator of efficiency (very raw).

[SpringfieldFan]

Wouldn't it be 2/6 since you would be counting the batter as well?

 

OPS with Runners On seems to be good enough for this type of situation (Quentin has a 1.111 with Runners On, which is Nintendo-like).

 

I am sure if you just took RBI and divided by AB, you would get a pretty good indicator of efficiency (very raw).

 

I was thinking RBI vs failed RBI, rather than RBI out of potential RBI, thus:

1st AB: 2 RBI, 0 LOB (they scored on the HR)

2nd AB: 0 RBI, 4 LOB (the 3 guys on base plus the batter)

But either way would work.

 

I wouldn't prefer simple RBI per AB because it punishes a guy for being on a poor offensive team. I agree that OPS w/ runners on is a very good indicator, probably the best measurement for productive clutch hitting. However, it would give credit for a guy getting an opposite field single with just a runner on first who doesn't score. Again, that is a valuable achievement, but I was looking for a simple stat that says how well a guy gets runs across the plate when he has the opportunity, nothing more nothing less (I think that was what the basic RBI stat was created for in the first place). But yeah, this all could result in a case of stat overload.

 

SFF

Edited August 20, 2008 by SpringfieldFan

[WCSox]

Jon (Minny): Who are your top 3 AL MVP candidates as of right now?

 

Buster Olney: (1:36 PM ET ) As of today: 1. Carlos Quention. 2. Kevin Youkilis. 3. Joe Mauer.

 

From Buster Olney's chat this afternoon

 

Youkilis is a very underrated player who is having a really nice season and all, but the ESPN Red Sox knob-slobbing is incredibly annoying. Number two in the AL MVP voting? GMAFB.

 

Also, Morneau is having a better season at the plate than Mauer. And given that he and Mauer are pretty much the Twins' entire offense, he's more deserving than "Youk" as well.

 

Edited August 20, 2008 by WCSox

[RME JICO]

I was thinking RBI vs failed RBI, rather than RBI out of potential RBI, thus:

1st AB: 2 RBI, 0 LOB (they scored on the HR)

2nd AB: 0 RBI, 4 LOB (the 3 guys on base plus the batter)

But either way would work.

 

I wouldn't prefer simple RBI per AB because it punishes a guy for being on a poor offensive team. I agree that OPS w/ runners on is a very good indicator, probably the best measurement for productive clutch hitting. However, it would give credit for a guy getting an opposite field single with just a runner on first who doesn't score. Again, that is a valuable achievement, but I was looking for a simple stat that says how well a guy gets runs across the plate when he has the opportunity, nothing more nothing less (I think that was what the basic RBI stat was created for in the first place). But yeah, this all could result in a case of stat overload.

 

SFF

Got it, but it would seem like the first 2 would be a successful opportunity, thus a 2 for 2 or 100% efficiency, then the 0 for 4 would bring the efficiency down to 2 of 6 or 33%. Otherwise at first it would be 2 for 0, or it would at least seem that way. Every AB, whether someone was on or not would be an opportunity. I do like AVG with Runners on because that is all the batter can really do is get a hit. He can't help a slow player score from 2nd on a single, that is out of his control. So should he be punished for hitting a double and the guy on first doesn't score?

[chunk23]

I'm thinking that it's going to be difficult from here on out for Quentin to add to his xbh totals because judging from these last few games, he's being pitched around and won't see nearly as many hittable pitches. He had how many walks in this series?

Edited August 21, 2008 by chunk23

[Balta1701]

I'm thinking that it's going to be difficult from here on out for Quentin to add to his xbh totals because judging from these last few games, he's being pitched around and won't see nearly as many hittable pitches. He had how many walks in this series?

Even days like today are still going to push his OPS up there.

 

And we're one JD hot streak away from no one pitching around Q again. When JD gets locked in you'd rather pitch to Pujols than JD because you just know he's going to homer in 3 straight games.

[oralsoxpodcast]

The chat was very informative. Nice to see CQ getting some love. Do you think they take looks into account? Because Quentins PFP (pretty face percentage) is like .900. Hamilton's is like .650...too much drugs son.

[SpringfieldFan]

I do like AVG with Runners on because that is all the batter can really do is get a hit. He can't help a slow player score from 2nd on a single, that is out of his control. So should he be punished for hitting a double and the guy on first doesn't score?

Point well taken. Of course you could also compare the guy who advances a runner to third with a single to a guy who hits a homer in that situation. I believe AVG with Runners on would be equal for both, would it not? Maybe there just is no perfect stat for this. I guess if there were we would have it. In any case I am confident Q would acquit himself quite nicely no matter what stat you want to use.

 

SFF