TCQ vs Hamilton (MVP Debate @ ESPN)

[joejoesox]

From ESPN boards:

 

Hamilton has played in 115 games and has hit .326 with RISP.

 

Quentin has played in 113 games and has hit .324 with RISP.

 

So how can they be so far apart (21 RBI)?

 

A closer look into their numbers shows that Hamilton has had 135 AB with RISP while Quentin has had only 102. Of Hamilton's 135 RISP AB there were a total of 154 runners in scoring position. Of Quentin's 102 RISP AB there were a total of only 118 runners in scoring position.

 

So, Hamilton gets .72 RBI for every RISP.

 

While Quentin gets .76 RBI for every RISP.

 

Hamilton's RBI numbers are that much bigger only because he his team gives him that many more chances. Quentin is actually more efficient at driving in runs, he just doesn't see nearly the same amount of opportunities.

 

Nice, this shows Quentin IS more efficient at driving in runs

[Wanne]

I can't tell you how many D'Backs fans were pizzed when that trade was made with what they ended up agreeing on with Byrnes, and the rest of the D'Backs fans are pizzed now whenever Quentin is mentioned on the radio, tv, etc. They loved him here in Phoenix and preferred Byrnes be traded.

 

Makes me smile every time I get into a conversation with DBack fans out here. I always like to add..."but, but...you've got Chris Young...". They got nobody to blame but themselves because they provided the peer pressure with all the b****ing about Gonzo, Johnson, Schilling, etc.... being moved and the thought of losing Byrnes who was having a good year just didn't sit well. Just because "he's popular"... tough s***zkies......

 

 

[Heads22]

Makes me smile every time I get into a conversation with DBack fans out here. I always like to add..."but, but...you've got Chris Young...". They got nobody to blame but themselves because they provided the peer pressure with all the b****ing about Gonzo, Johnson, Schilling, etc.... being moved and the thought of losing Byrnes who was having a good year just didn't sit well. Just because "he's popular"... tough s***zkies......

 

Probably doesn't help them when Young is putting up comparable numbers to Anderson.

[knightni]

Probably doesn't help them when Young is putting up comparable numbers to Anderson.

I'd take him back.

[RME JICO]

From ESPN boards:

 

Nice, this shows Quentin IS more efficient at driving in runs

Hamilton has Kinsler and Young in front of him. CQ has had OCab and Swish or AJ. Big difference in terms of RBI opportunities. Also, Hamilton has over 50 more ABs with runners on than CQ.

[RME JICO]

I hate to dig up old threads, but I didn't want to start another CQ MVP thread with this one already out there.

 

It looks like Kinsler is going to the DL, which will kill a huge portion of Hamilton's RBI opportunities. This gives CQ a great chance to close the gap in the one stat that Hamilton leads in.

[AssHatSoxFan]

Kinsler was more of an MVP candidate than Hamilton IMHO

[Kalapse]

After both games today:

           G   AB   R    H   2B  3B   HR   RBI   BB   SO   AVG   OBP   SLG   OPS

Hamilton  121  486  80  146  28   3   28   114   50   94  .300  .365  .543  .908

Quentin   119  440  89  129  22   1   35    96   56   75  .293  .395  .586  .981 

[mr_genius]

Q for sure. The voters like to go with someone on a winning team and Q's numbers are superior.

[Balta1701]

Q for sure. The voters like to go with someone on a winning team and Q's numbers are superior.

If we miss the playoffs I bet Hamilton still gets it. Or perhaps even a Morneau default again.

[Kalapse]

After both games today:

           G   AB   R    H   2B  3B   HR   RBI   BB   SO   AVG   OBP   SLG   OPS

Hamilton  121  486  80  146  28   3   28   114   50   94  .300  .365  .543  .908

Quentin   119  440  89  129  22   1   35    96   56   75  .293  .395  .586  .981 

After tonight's games Carlos Quentin's OPS is now .073 points higher than that of Josh Hamilton. That's Big difference.

[caulfield12]

I think you have to keep your eye/s on Morneau again. If the Twins make it and the Sox don't, he might be the quietest two-time league MVP in recent memory.

 

I almost think that Hamilton has a better chance if the Twins win, because they might prefer not to give it to Morneau two seasons in a row. Carlos Quentin makes for a better storyline than J. Morneau fwiw. I also think Dye could siphon off some votes as well...

[Kalapse]

I think you have to keep your eye/s on Morneau again. If the Twins make it and the Sox don't, he might be the quietest two-time league MVP in recent memory.

 

I almost think that Hamilton has a better chance if the Twins win, because they might prefer not to give it to Morneau two seasons in a row. Carlos Quentin makes for a better storyline than J. Morneau fwiw. I also think Dye could siphon off some votes as well...

A-Rod won the MVP last season so it wouldn't be 2 years in a row for Morneau. I would have a tough time voting for Justin Morneau (if I had a vote), he's a first baseman with an OPS right around -- though at the moment below -- .900 and will probably finish with 25 HR at the most. That's pretty weak. I'd give it to Youk before Morneau.

[tealeafreaderii]

I think you have to keep your eye/s on Morneau again. If the Twins make it and the Sox don't, he might be the quietest two-time league MVP in recent memory.

 

I almost think that Hamilton has a better chance if the Twins win, because they might prefer not to give it to Morneau two seasons in a row. Carlos Quentin makes for a better storyline than J. Morneau fwiw. I also think Dye could siphon off some votes as well...

ARod won last year... wouldn't be 2 in a row.

[caulfield12]

A-Rod won the MVP last season so it wouldn't be 2 years in a row for Morneau. I would have a tough time voting for Justin Morneau (if I had a vote), he's a first baseman with an OPS right around -- though at the moment below -- .900 and will probably finish with 25 HR at the most. That's pretty weak. I'd give it to Youk before Morneau.

 

I completely was ignoring last season, lol. Because I was travelling/teaching overseas and the White Sox were so abysmal. Funny how that happens.

 

I can't stand the idea of Youkilis winning it. I think Paul O'Neill would be preferable to him. Even Giambi, yikes!

[shipps]

Josh Hamilton was addicted to heroin. Heroin was addicted to Carlos Quentin.

 

"Hello, my name is Heroin, and I'm a Carlos Quentinaholic."

LOL.Nicely done.

[Steve9347]

There's a lot of time left, obviously, but if the season ended today, CQ would be your 2008 MVP, and the league would somehow find a way to not award Kenny as Executive of the Year again like they did in 2005.

 

Alexei

CQ

 

Those two moves alone would merit it.

[southsider2k5]

After both games today:

           G   AB   R    H   2B  3B   HR   RBI   BB   SO   AVG   OBP   SLG   OPS

Hamilton  121  486  80  146  28   3   28   114   50   94  .300  .365  .543  .908

Quentin   119  440  89  129  22   1   35    96   56   75  .293  .395  .586  .981 

 

Hamilton has really gone into a second half swoon. Post all-star break he is hitting .279 with 7 homers and 19 RBI in 104 ABs. Compare that to Carlos who is .347 with 12 homers and 25 RBI in 98 ABs. His post ASB OPS is 1.238 compared to .913 for Hamilton. With the brutal Texas summer sapping the Rangers, and Kinsler being out, expect Hamiltons numbers to keep sliding.

[kapkomet]

Hamilton has really gone into a second half swoon. Post all-star break he is hitting .279 with 7 homers and 19 RBI in 104 ABs. Compare that to Carlos who is .347 with 12 homers and 25 RBI in 98 ABs. His post ASB OPS is 1.238 compared to .913 for Hamilton. With the brutal Texas summer sapping the Rangers, and Kinsler being out, expect Hamiltons numbers to keep sliding.

Except the Texas brutal summer has taken a vacation this week. We've gotten a ton of rain the last 5 days. Yesterday, it didn't get out of the 70's. Usually that means the 100's are over, so it won't be such a grind down here for those guys. Still, Hamilton's definitely sliding.

[RME JICO]

Hamilton has really gone into a second half swoon. Post all-star break he is hitting .279 with 7 homers and 19 RBI in 104 ABs. Compare that to Carlos who is .347 with 12 homers and 25 RBI in 98 ABs. His post ASB OPS is 1.238 compared to .913 for Hamilton. With the brutal Texas summer sapping the Rangers, and Kinsler being out, expect Hamiltons numbers to keep sliding.

 

Kinsler's injury will have the biggest impact on Hamilton's numbers. He won't have the same RBI opportunities as before and the pitchers won't be pitching from the stretch so much against him.

Edited August 19, 2008 by RME JICO

[caulfield12]

There's a lot of time left, obviously, but if the season ended today, CQ would be your 2008 MVP, and the league would somehow find a way to not award Kenny as Executive of the Year again like they did in 2005.

 

Alexei

CQ

 

Those two moves alone would merit it.

 

I'm sure they will give it to the Rays' GM or Shapiro. Actually, one of the biggest trades of the off-season was Bartlett/Garza for D. Young. If the Twins had kept Bartlett and Garza, I think they would now be 3-5 games ahead of us. A lot of Twins fans are really getting aggravated with Young's lack of speed, hustle, defensive ineptitude and complete lack of plate patience and bad habit of swinging at either first pitches or every single ball out of the strike zone or in the dirt with 2 strikes. Harris isn't a very good fundamental player, either. The irony is that bringing in position players from other organizations doesn't work so well for the Twins usually.

 

I think you have to add Linebrink and Dotel to that list too...they both have played (especially Scott) huge roles in bridging the way from the starters to Jenks. Danks and Floyd weren't such bad moves either, :-). Neither happened in this past off-season, but you have to consider them part of the total body of work in putting together this year's team and recovering from 2007.

Edited August 19, 2008 by caulfield12

[Steve9347]

I'm sure they will give it to the Rays' GM or Shapiro. Actually, one of the biggest trades of the off-season was Bartlett/Garza for D. Young. If the Twins had kept Bartlett and Garza, I think they would now be 3-5 games ahead of us. A lot of Twins fans are really getting aggravated with Young's lack of speed, hustle, defensive ineptitude and complete lack of plate patience and bad habit of swinging at either first pitches or every single ball out of the strike zone or in the dirt with 2 strikes. Harris isn't a very good fundamental player, either. The irony is that bringing in position players from other organizations doesn't work so well for the Twins usually.

 

I think you have to add Linebrink and Dotel to that list too...they both have played (especially Scott) huge roles in bridging the way from the starters to Jenks. Danks and Floyd weren't such bad moves either, :-). Neither happened in this past off-season, but you have to consider them part of the total body of work in putting together this year's team and recovering from 2007.

I hope you mean "especially Octavio", because he's been the man, while Linebrink's been on the shelf.

[caulfield12]

I hope you mean "especially Octavio", because he's been the man, while Linebrink's been on the shelf.

 

 

No, I meant Linebrink. He was the glue the first half that held everything together in the pen...like Pods, in a very different and less visible way, in 2005.

 

We wouldn't have been able to get to the 10-15 games above .500 mark without him, there's not a doubt in my mind. Since he went down on July 22nd, the White Sox have been treading water until this recent string of games against lower competition (KC, Seattle, Oakland).

[iamshack]

Anyone read Joe Sheehan's article on picking the AL MVP @ Baseball Prospectus? I am not a subscriber, but I'd love to hear who he went with....

[RME JICO]

Anyone read Joe Sheehan's article on picking the AL MVP @ Baseball Prospectus? I am not a subscriber, but I'd love to hear who he went with....

Since it is BP, they will probably use their VORP rating as a discriminator:

 

1. ARod - 56.3

2. Kinsler - 54.8

3. Sizemore - 51.4

4. Huff - 49.2

5. Quentin - 48.1

6. Bradley - 47.4

7. Youkilis - 46.3

8. Hamilton - 45.5

9. Mauer - 42.3

10. Roberts - 41.6

 

With Texas, Cleveland, and Baltimore out of the running, it looks like it would be between ARod, CQ, and Youkilis.