5th Starter

[RockRaines]

Nope. He may have a few good starts here and there, but its not worth the risk. Goose Gossage was tried as a starter, and he went from a dominating reliever who could throw multiple innings, to a below average starter. Eckersley was a great starter at one time, but he was done until he became a dominant reliever. Derek Lowe did well going from a reliever to starter, but I have a hard time believing Jenks would hold up with the extra workload. The screw and his tendency to put on weight during the season would make me wonder. Keep him where he's at. I don't think his career will be long anyway, but you might as well have a guy at the end of the game you can confidently say will get people out. Unless you really had an unbelievable need for a starter, and you had a young stud who could close, I don't know why it would even be considered.

Good starters are more valuable than relievers correct? Take out your point of his elbow which none of us know much about and many opinions state that its better for the pitchers arm to throw on regular rest.

 

Lets say Jenks came out and had a Ryan Dempster type year, then would it be worth it? He's had the workload before, he just wasnt a pitcher, he was a thrower who didnt have command nor any knowhow on how to use his stuff.

 

And the reason its being considered is because this is a message board.

Edited August 28, 2008 by RockRaines

[ptatc]

Good starters are more valuable than relievers correct? Take out your point of his elbow which none of us know much about and many opinions state that its better for the pitchers arm to throw on regular rest.

 

Lets say Jenks came out and had a Ryan Dempster type year, then would it be worth it? He's had the workload before, he just wasnt a pitcher, he was a thrower who didnt have command nor any knowhow on how to use his stuff.

 

And the reason its being considered is because this is a message board.

 

It is usually better for a pitcher to have the regular work and not have the up and down, starting and stopping of a reliever. However, in ths case with the history of stress fx and the screw, I don't think it would be advisable to load up the number of pitches on the arm. The screw can work its way out or even break with stress. Remember Cal Eldred he had a great first half for the Sox one year, then a screw would work its way lose and he wasn't the same. I think he tried to pitch again with St. Louis but he was never the same.

 

[Dick Allen]

Good starters are more valuable than relievers correct? Take out your point of his elbow which none of us know much about and many opinions state that its better for the pitchers arm to throw on regular rest.

 

Lets say Jenks came out and had a Ryan Dempster type year, then would it be worth it? He's had the workload before, he just wasnt a pitcher, he was a thrower who didnt have command nor any knowhow on how to use his stuff.

 

And the reason its being considered is because this is a message board.

Jenks has throw over 100 innings twice as a pro with 123 being his high in a season. It would be insane to move him into the rotation not only because he's at best a question mark as a starter both performance-wise and physically, but it also would weaken a bullpen significantly.

[Harry Chappas]

Do you want an elite closer or a question mark starter who may or may not give you innings and may be injured or become somewhere between Carlos Zambrano and Esteban Loiaza.

 

Look at Papelbon for Boston.

 

Without Jenks this team is toast. They have enough starting pitching but look around baseball and look at bullpens that struggle. The St. Louis Cardinals and New York Mets would kill for a Jenks.

 

Who closes next year.........

 

I do not think the risk is worth the reward.

 

In regard to screws in elbows Farmer and Stone were talking about Adam Lowen and how it ended his pitching career.

Edited August 28, 2008 by Jenks Heat

[RockRaines]

Jenks has throw over 100 innings twice as a pro with 123 being his high in a season. It would be insane to move him into the rotation not only because he's at best a question mark as a starter both performance-wise and physically, but it also would weaken a bullpen significantly.

So you dont think he'd be a good starter? May I ask why? Do you think he doesnt have the stuff of our other guys? Doesnt know how to pitch as well? Doesnt have the mental makeup?

[RockRaines]

Do you want an elite closer or a question mark starter who may or may not give you innings and may be injured or become somewhere between Carlos Zambrano and Esteban Loiaza.

 

Look at Papelbon for Boston.

 

Without Jenks this team is toast. They have enough starting pitching but look around baseball and look at bullpens that struggle. The St. Louis Cardinals and New York Mets would kill for a Jenks.

 

Who closes next year.........

 

I do not think the risk is worth the reward.

 

In regard to screws in elbows Farmer and Stone were talking about Adam Lowen and how it ended his pitching career.

Ryan Dempster seemed to make a good transition.

[Dick Allen]

So you dont think he'd be a good starter? May I ask why? Do you think he doesnt have the stuff of our other guys? Doesnt know how to pitch as well? Doesnt have the mental makeup?

He hasn't been as successful as a starter and if he became one he would have to take his foot off the gas a little bit. Moving Dempster to the rotation made sense because he had at least some success as a starter before, was a mediocre to bad closer and they had replacements several replacements. Why mess with success? Its not about stuff or mental make-up, although Bobby's "stuff" would probably not seem as good over 6 innings as it does for one, plus he has a scrwew in his elbow. He's an elite closer. Maybe the Sox should sign KRod and put him in their rotation. Its a crazy idea.

[RockRaines]

He hasn't been as successful as a starter and if he became one he would have to take his foot off the gas a little bit. Moving Dempster to the rotation made sense because he had at least some success as a starter before, was a mediocre to bad closer and they had replacements several replacements. Why mess with success? Its not about stuff or mental make-up, although Bobby's "stuff" would probably not seem as good over 6 innings as it does for one, plus he has a scrwew in his elbow. He's an elite closer. Maybe the Sox should sign KRod and put him in their rotation. Its a crazy idea.

So you are going back to the line of thinking that he is the same pitcher that was a starter in the Angels organization over 4 years ago? (FYI his last healthy season in the minors as a starter has him going 7-2 with a 2.17 ERA) He has already taken his foot off the gas and actually has added several pitches that work well with the batters making contact. This is pretty evident in his k/9 dropping consistenly over the last few seasons 11.44-10.34-7.75-5.20 He arguably has the best stuff on our staff today. Closers are fairly easy to find these days and we may have one in waiting in Aaron Poreda.

 

And the KROD argument doesnt make any sense at all, not really sure why you put it in there. Why is it that nobody can think outside of the box on this site anymore?

Edited August 28, 2008 by RockRaines

[Dick Allen]

So you are going back to the line of thinking that he is the same pitcher that was a starter in the Angels organization over 4 years ago? (FYI his last healthy season in the minors as a starter has him going 7-2 with a 2.17 ERA) He has already taken his foot off the gas and actually has added several pitches that work well with the batters making contact. This is pretty evident in his k/9 dropping consistenly over the last few seasons 11.44-10.34-7.75-5.20 He arguably has the best stuff on our staff today. Closers are fairly easy to find these days and we may have one in waiting in Aaron Poreda.

 

And the KROD argument doesnt make any sense at all, not really sure why you put it in there. Why is it that nobody can think outside of the box on this site anymore?

There's thinking outside the box and craziness. Some pitchers are more valuable as closers. Bullpens are becoming more important every season. Although there's a possibility he could become an ace, as I stated, he's never pitched more than 123 innings in a season and he hit 109 one year, the only 2 he's been in triple figures. The up and down argument really doesn't apply to him in the bullpen because he is a closer. Its very rare he warms up and sits down and warms up again. But even if he did, wouldn't he have to do that 6 or 7 times a game if he was a starter? He's a closer. If it ain't broke........................

 

I'm sure Dempster's success has given you this idea, but remember, Dempster was a starter most of his major league career. He's pitched more than 200 innings more than once.

Edited August 28, 2008 by Dick Allen

[jenksycat]

So you are going back to the line of thinking that he is the same pitcher that was a starter in the Angels organization over 4 years ago? (FYI his last healthy season in the minors as a starter has him going 7-2 with a 2.17 ERA) He has already taken his foot off the gas and actually has added several pitches that work well with the batters making contact. This is pretty evident in his k/9 dropping consistenly over the last few seasons 11.44-10.34-7.75-5.20 He arguably has the best stuff on our staff today. Closers are fairly easy to find these days and we may have one in waiting in Aaron Poreda.

 

And the KROD argument doesnt make any sense at all, not really sure why you put it in there. Why is it that nobody can think outside of the box on this site anymore?

 

Closers are easy to find huh? Hahahaha, ask the cards, mets, tigers, clevland, etc. You don't take an elite closer and gamble him in the rotation. You keep him as a lights out closer and worry about the other 8 innings.

 

Dumpster made the transistion because it was a no lose situation. He was a s***ty closer, and if he was a s***ty starter, what do you lose?

Edited August 28, 2008 by Jenksy Cat

[RockRaines]

Closers are easy to find huh? Hahahaha, ask the cards, mets, tigers, clevland, etc. You don't take an elite closer and gamble him in the rotation. You keep him as a lights out closer and worry about the other 8 innings.

 

Dumpster made the transistion because it was a no lose situation. He was a s***ty closer, and if he was a s***ty starter, what do you lose?

Papelbon, Valverde, Soria, Sherril, Gregg, Wood, Capps, Saito. All been made full time closers within 3 seasons. Those teams didnt have hard times finding closers. I would argue that Poreda may be our closer in waiting.

[Balta1701]

Papelbon, Valverde, Soria, Sherril, Gregg, Wood, Capps, Saito. All been made full time closers within 3 seasons. Those teams didnt have hard times finding closers. I would argue that Poreda may be our closer in waiting.

But on the other hand....look at how much teams like Detroit, Cleveland, Atlanta, Milwaukee, etc. have struggled to find a reliable closer for years, even in some cases despite a couple trades and a lot of money thrown at marginal FA's.

[RockRaines]

But on the other hand....look at how much teams like Detroit, Cleveland, Atlanta, Milwaukee, etc. have struggled to find a reliable closer for years, even in some cases despite a couple trades and a lot of money thrown at marginal FA's.

Like I said, we may have one in the wings. I'm not saying we NEED to put Jenks in the rotation, but its not entirely out of the question.

[Dick Allen]

Papelbon, Valverde, Soria, Sherril, Gregg, Wood, Capps, Saito. All been made full time closers within 3 seasons. Those teams didnt have hard times finding closers. I would argue that Poreda may be our closer in waiting.

But if starters are more valuable than closers, why move Poreda to the closer role? Poreda's major league career =?

Jenks as a starter=?. Jenks as a closer= elite. I see no reason to mess with it.

 

How many elite closers with zero track record of success as a starter have been converted to one the past 20 years?

Edited August 29, 2008 by Dick Allen

[The Ginger Kid]

didn't kenny rogers clear waivers? he is kind of nails in big games.

[Balta1701]

I'd rather take my chances with Richard. Rogers almost 1.60 WHIP is scary, and his 188 hits over 161 innings doesn't scream "big game pitcher"

All we need to do is find him a more clear sticky adhesive for his hand.

[RockRaines]

But if starters are more valuable than closers, why move Poreda to the closer role? Poreda's major league career =?

Jenks as a starter=?. Jenks as a closer= elite. I see no reason to mess with it.

 

How many elite closers with zero track record of success as a starter have been converted to one the past 20 years?

Its a valid point. I still think Aaron's future is in the pen though.

[YASNY]

Its a valid point. I still think Aaron's future is in the pen though.

 

Rock, you're argument makes a lot of sense. But with that screw in Bobby's arm ... well, I'll take the if it ain't broke, don't fix it stance.