The disaster known as the Sox bullpen

[caulfield12]

Statistics since Linebrink went out on July 22nd

 

Carrasco 14 IP, 6 ER=3.86 ERA (you can see why OG wants to keep him down in the pen when you look at the other ERA's, and number of IP)

 

Logan 5 1/3 IP, 9 ER=31.21 ERA (banished)

 

Dotel 10 2/3 IP, 6 ER=5.06 ERA (suffering from a move from the 7th to 8th inning)

 

Jenks 9 IP, 2 ER=2.00 (the one bright spot, along with DJ Carrasco, at least until last night)

 

Masset 2 IP, 3 ER=13.50 (exiled)

 

Thornton 10 1/3 IP, 5 ER=4.35 ERA (getting worn down?)

 

Wasserman 8 1/3 IP, 4 ER=4.32 ERA (actually pitched better than his first time up)

 

Russell 8 2/3 IP, 5 ER=5.19 ERA

 

H. Ramirez 1 IP, 1 ER=9.00 ERA

 

Broadway 1/3 IP, 0 ER=0.00 ERA

 

 

TOTAL DAMAGES 69 2/3 IP, 41 ER=5.30 ERA (2 huge blown saves at Minnesota and Oakland)

 

According to a Phil Rogers/Tribune article, the mathematical predictors are giving the advantage to the White Sox to win the division based on relief pitching (I think it's actually even without Linebrink), defense (not so sure about that) and because of the Twins' upcoming 14 game road swing. Without Linebrink, I would give the Twins a slight edge because the White Sox have to play them at the Dome.

 

However, TB and NY are wounded, which really should help the White Sox. After games like last night's you really want to give up watching the White Sox and just tune in at the end of the season, but, thankfully, there's a new day tomorrow (instead of waiting for a week like football) and anything can happen. I really wish they would hire someone to work with Anderson and Ramirez on their baserunning.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[retro1983hat]

You could feel it coming last night. There's a handful of games at the end of the year if you miss the playoffs you point to as the reason. Put that one in that column.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

Disaster, maybe but it can be blamed to a large degree on injuries causing a spirited game of musical chairs. Every team deals with them, ours just happened to strike in the back part of the season. You can hope that the starters minimize the absence of Liney by going deep and deeper and the offense continues, even improves itself.

Edited August 16, 2008 by ChiSox35

[WCSox]

Dotel 10 2/3 IP, 6 ER=5.06 ERA (suffering from a move from the 7th to 8th inning)

 

I don't think that's the problem. Dotel is a former closer who has several years experience in other bullpen roles. I think that it has more to do with the fact that Dotel has been an average/mediocre pitcher since undergoing Tommy John surgery a few years ago. His numbers over the past couple of years aren't nearly as good as what he's put up overall this season. That's not to say that Dotel can't shake these disastrous outings and finish with a very strong season, but one shouldn't be surprised that he's not exactly lights-out all of the time. And there's little evidence that moving from middle relief to setup man is responsible for it.

 

Thornton 10 1/3 IP, 5 ER=4.35 ERA (getting worn down?)

 

Hasn't he been having back problems?

 

[caulfield12]

I don't think that's the problem. Dotel is a former closer who has several years experience in other bullpen roles. I think that it has more to do with the fact that Dotel has been an average/mediocre pitcher since undergoing Tommy John surgery a few years ago. His numbers over the past couple of years aren't nearly as good as what he's put up overall this season. That's not to say that Dotel can't shake these disastrous outings and finish with a very strong season, but one shouldn't be surprised that he's not exactly lights-out all of the time. And there's little evidence that moving from middle relief to setup man is responsible for it.

 

 

 

Hasn't he been having back problems?

 

 

I saw where he attributed his performance in the final Boston game (Danks' start) to fatigue from the really long Tigers game we won on Swisher's walk-off after Thornton gave up the 2nd homer to Polanco.

 

Dotel...I don't know, obviously he's lost 3-5 MPH on his fastball. You look at his stats, and everything appears great, but then you get outings like last night. I guess it's kind of a cop-out to excuse him, he's a major league veteran, after all. It just seems when we had Dotel/Thornton, then Linebrink, then Jenks, everything just seemed to click.

 

Ozzie's been searching for that fourth reliever for weeks now...sometimes it's Carrasco (more recently), but I think he also has to look at Ramirez and Russell to see what he can get out of those guys. Unfortunately, on-the-job training for Russell, but in the heat of a pennant race.

 

I understand why he left Dotel in there...even though logic/match-ups might have favored Ramirez. It's simply that Ozzie Factor...he likes to believe in his players until they prove him wrong too many times, and removing Dotel would have raised more doubts in Dotel's mind about his ability to get it done. In some ways, Dotel has been very resilient in bouncing back from disasters in the late innings, but there's something about him that has always been "fragile" and has led to his moving around quite a bit throughout his career.

 

 

[elrockinMT]

Pretty por performance last night by the pen. They gave up three homers in less than 2 inings. But as bad as they were last night there were many ga,mes they were superb. What happened last night was a team effort to look as bad as possible

[WCSox]

It just seems when we had Dotel/Thornton, then Linebrink, then Jenks, everything just seemed to click.

 

That may have to do with the fact that our bullpen had a lot more depth with Linebrink and Logan both available and pitching well. Then again, I don't see any signs of over-use on the part of Dotel, so who knows.

 

I understand why he left Dotel in there...even though logic/match-ups might have favored Ramirez. It's simply that Ozzie Factor...he likes to believe in his players until they prove him wrong too many times, and removing Dotel would have raised more doubts in Dotel's mind about his ability to get it done. In some ways, Dotel has been very resilient in bouncing back from disasters in the late innings, but there's something about him that has always been "fragile" and has led to his moving around quite a bit throughout his career.

 

With Linebrink out and Thornton not throwing well at all, Ozzie pretty much has to stick with Dotel now. So I don't blame him in that regard. And given how well Dotel's pitched overall this season, one could argue that he's earned it. That said, I just don't think that Dotel has the raw stuff to be a reliable setup man. He doesn't throw particularly hard, he doesn't have a great "out" pitch, and his command is average. A guy like that is just fine in middle relief, I'm happy that we have him, and I'm really happy that he's done so well overall this year. But this bullpen really needs a healthy Linebrink back to help hold leads and take pressure off of the other guys.

 

[witesoxfan]

You could feel it coming last night. There's a handful of games at the end of the year if you miss the playoffs you point to as the reason. Put that one in that column.

 

The exact opposite can be stated too, and the Sox extra inning win against Detroit fills that column. This team is always either very good or very bad and there's no in-between...just hope they're more good than bad the rest of the way.

[Paint it Black]

The Linebrink injury was key because everybody had to move up a spot. So when a guy like Carrasco steps up just when Contreras goes down, it hurt the pen once again. I do think that there is some silver lineing with Linebrink being out, and that is some much needed rest, albeit not the kind of rest you want, but it could work in our favor

[nitetrain8601]

I actually felt it as soon as Dotel came in. I honestly have predicted when and to who he gives up the HR to and what pitch everytime he comes in this year when I have a chance to watch them. Last night was no different. I was watching the game with my gf and was trying to teach her the basics of baseball and Sox players. I said, "This guy Dotel, he was good, messed up his arm, still thinks he has lightning in it and he gets hit at the most inopportune moments." She said, "Wow, way to be positive about him." Then I explained to her one of my roommates and a bunch of Sox fans in the LF bleachers said the same right before I predicted he would choke when he was coming in against the Yankees. So she's like, "Yeah right, you're stubborn and think you're right. You probably never liked him." I replied as to how I loved him ever since he helped in that no hitter against the Mets I believe when he was with Houston. She wanted me to predict him giving up a HR tonight and by who. I shocked her when I said 2 because it would be enough to tie the game since we were up. I said, "This guy" when the first HR was popped. Then when the second was popped, I called it again and said, "HR, this pitch, watch".

 

So now she's kind of scared of me because she thinks I'm psychotic and there's no way I could have known that. When it comes to Dotel, I know.

[Metz]

I actually felt it as soon as Dotel came in. I honestly have predicted when and to who he gives up the HR to and what pitch everytime he comes in this year when I have a chance to watch them. Last night was no different. I was watching the game with my gf and was trying to teach her the basics of baseball and Sox players. I said, "This guy Dotel, he was good, messed up his arm, still thinks he has lightning in it and he gets hit at the most inopportune moments." She said, "Wow, way to be positive about him." Then I explained to her one of my roommates and a bunch of Sox fans in the LF bleachers said the same right before I predicted he would choke when he was coming in against the Yankees. So she's like, "Yeah right, you're stubborn and think you're right. You probably never liked him." I replied as to how I loved him ever since he helped in that no hitter against the Mets I believe when he was with Houston. She wanted me to predict him giving up a HR tonight and by who. I shocked her when I said 2 because it would be enough to tie the game since we were up. I said, "This guy" when the first HR was popped. Then when the second was popped, I called it again and said, "HR, this pitch, watch".

 

So now she's kind of scared of me because she thinks I'm psychotic and there's no way I could have known that. When it comes to Dotel, I know.

 

you got to love the well timed guess! congrats! hah

[nitetrain8601]

you got to love the well timed guess! congrats! hah

 

It's not a guess though somehow. It always happens when I call it. It's never happened with any other pitcher or any other sport or anything. For some reason, I can tell when Dotel is about to give up a jack. It kind of freaks me out when I think of it. My roommate thinks it's cool. And my gf thinks I'm a weirdo for it.

[Jake]

You have to remember that two of Thornton's runs came at the beginning of his fourth consecutive inning against Detroit, and I really don't hold him accountable for what happens after he's left out there that long.

 

Does anyone else feel like Wasserman gave up a ton of cheap hits?

[nitetrain8601]

You have to remember that two of Thornton's runs came at the beginning of his fourth consecutive inning against Detroit, and I really don't hold him accountable for what happens after he's left out there that long.

 

Yes, Thornton always seemed like a one/two inning max guy.

[fathom]

You have to remember that two of Thornton's runs came at the beginning of his fourth consecutive inning against Detroit, and I really don't hold him accountable for what happens after he's left out there that long.

 

Does anyone else feel like Wasserman gave up a ton of cheap hits?

 

Lots of cheap hits because Wassermann doesn't strike anyone out. In order to beat a ROOGY in the majors, you need to have a good slider. So far this season, Wassermann's been throwing almost primarily inside fastballs.

[maggsmaggs]

Lots of cheap hits because Wassermann doesn't strike anyone out. In order to beat a ROOGY in the majors, you need to have a good slider. So far this season, Wassermann's been throwing almost primarily inside fastballs.

ROOGY just doesn't have the same beatiful sound as LOOGY.

[joejoedairy]

It's not a guess though somehow. It always happens when I call it. It's never happened with any other pitcher or any other sport or anything. For some reason, I can tell when Dotel is about to give up a jack. It kind of freaks me out when I think of it. My roommate thinks it's cool. And my gf thinks I'm a weirdo for it.

 

 

Then stop calling it and he wont give up any homers. Use your powers for good

[nitetrain8601]

Then stop calling it and he wont give up any homers. Use your powers for good

 

When tell him to stop giving them up and then I won't have anything to call!

 

[jenksycat]

You can say they might blow some games down the stretch, but in reality we wouldn't even be in a race without them all being godly in the first half of the season.

 

You'd obviously want them to be stellar all year round, but I'd rather be in first place in August with a shaky bullpen than 8 games back with a solid one.