sin city sox fan Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 I have to say I was definitely in the majority who was screaming for KW to go get a starting pitcher when Jose went down. I didn't care if it was Byrd, Washburn, or somebody else of just slightly below mediocre talent. However, you have to hand it to Kenny....he knows when to trade and when not to trade. The jobs done by Broadway and Richard in each of their last starts has been an extremely pleasant surprise and gives me confidence for the rest of the year. If these two can keep it up, we may have a young staff of homegrown starters wearing a White Sox uni for quite some time. Way not to make a move Kenny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 (edited) If Kenny had better bullets I'm pretty sure he still would've made a move. This has mostly just been luck I think, it wasn't his Plan A. Or even his Plan B. Edited August 20, 2008 by lostfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBetsy Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 QUOTE (lostfan @ Aug 19, 2008 -> 09:11 PM) If Kenny had better bullets I'm pretty sure he still would've made a move. This has mostly just been luck I think, it wasn't his Plan A. Other than the fact that Richard's second and third starts were basically forfeits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 He gets more than his fair share of blame from a lot of people. Sometimes we have to remember he did help bring a World Series title to the team, which I will value for the rest of my life, even if I was only witnessing it on TV. It's funny how many people rip him, including myself, then say they were wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 At least the last two "#5 starters" have been W's (assuming we hang on tonight). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 QUOTE (kapkomet @ Aug 19, 2008 -> 09:13 PM) At least the last two "#5 starters" have been W's (assuming we hang on tonight). And as long as we get that W, nothing else matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 QUOTE (BlackBetsy @ Aug 19, 2008 -> 10:13 PM) Other than the fact that Richard's second and third starts were basically forfeits? Right. Unless I'm totally misunderstanding what Kenny and Ozzie were doing, Richard went back to AAA not to bring up Broadway, but because he was horrible and unready. I don't think anybody expected 6 shutout innings, even against a garbage squad like Seattle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 It's seems like in good seasons, it's stuff like this that has to happen. The mediocre prospects that come into the middle of the pennant race and succeed. In a 162 game season so much can go wrong, and so much can go right. Luckily for us it's been going right (quintin, alexei, danks, floyd, carrasco, uribe) after things had gone wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 QUOTE (lostfan @ Aug 19, 2008 -> 09:17 PM) Right. Unless I'm totally misunderstanding what Kenny and Ozzie were doing, Richard went back to AAA not to bring up Broadway, but because he was horrible and unready. I don't think anybody expected 6 shutout innings, even against a garbage squad like Seattle. No. He went down because he just pitched and was going to be unavailable for 5 days. By sending him down and bringing up another AAA pitcher we had more depth in our bullpen. It's the exact same strategy the club executed after Broadway's start. It's good roster management if you have the arms in the minors to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 The market this mid-season wasn't a very selective one where Kenny would have tried to pull the trigger on a front man starter. You look at the Brewers and Cubs, they both acquired quality arms before the All-Star Break and that meant getting more out of them. The Dodgers just traded for Maddux, but they probably will only see him go out there for 5 starts (6 at most) since there's approximately 36 games left in the season. IMO, if we were going to see a new pitcher in a White Sox uniform, it was going to be before the trade dead-line and not mid-August. I wasn't very much surprised that Kenny didn't go overboard and try to overpay or give up too much because there's not too much to choose from, not to mention that a lot of teams think they still have a shot at making a run. Giving the youngsters like Richard or Broadway a chance couldn't be all that big of a crisis since these guys would only be coming out every 5th game. The month of September also means seeing more guys in the dugout since the rosters expand. Perhaps someone comes up and has an impressive September-call up to push us through this pennant race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claydude14 Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Remember the spots have come against two of the worst AL teams, I'm not saying, I'm just saying. I thought Richard would man up and I'm glad to see he did. Someone said we won't need a 5th starter the next few times around the roto so if that's true than Broadway and Richard could both be on the September roster to make starts based on match up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (ROC Sox Fan @ Aug 19, 2008 -> 09:35 PM) Remember the spots have come against two of the worst AL teams, I'm not saying, I'm just saying. The Mariners suck because they can't pitch... not because they can't hit. They have a good offense. Since the all-star break they're batting .302 as a team... 2nd best in MLB. (Kansas City is 25th. Their offense does suck.) On the other hand, since the AS game, the Mariners have the second worst ERA in MLB (5.96). Edited August 20, 2008 by scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 QUOTE (ROC Sox Fan @ Aug 19, 2008 -> 09:35 PM) Remember the spots have come against two of the worst AL teams, I'm not saying, I'm just saying. I thought Richard would man up and I'm glad to see he did. Someone said we won't need a 5th starter the next few times around the roto so if that's true than Broadway and Richard could both be on the September roster to make starts based on match up. There's 36 games left after today's game and 4 days off before the season is done with. The 5th starter (whether it be Richard or Broadway) would probably have to be out there for another 5 starts. The season is quickly coming to an end if you think about it so if our 5th starter can keep us in the game there shouldn't be too much lament about there not being a Washburn or Byrd in our rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Richard was great tonight. You couldn't have asked for anything more from him. Everytime he got into a jam, he had the pitch to get out of it. His first couple of starts he had great innings, he just fell apart at the end. He looks like he is gaining confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBetsy Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 QUOTE (scenario @ Aug 19, 2008 -> 09:39 PM) The Mariners suck because they can't pitch... not because they can't hit. They have a good offense. Since the all-star break they're batting .302 as a team... 2nd best in MLB. (Kansas City is 25th. Their offense does suck.) On the other hand, since the AS game, the Mariners have the second worst ERA in MLB (5.96). Yay facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Well...we shall see how they (Broadway/Richard/Poreda/Egbert, etc.) do against the better teams down the stretch. That will be the key. Luckily, we're 2-0 in our last two starts out of the fifth spot. From 2001-2004, the winning percentage from that position was pretty abysmal, something like only 15-20% of the those starts. I think KW simply made a calculation that it wasn't worth trading someone like Poreda for a pretty minimal return of 6-7 starts down the stretch. If they didn't have those conveniently placed off-days, I think there would have been really no choice but to make a move...as giving up (possibly) four more games would have been a bigger difference in the final standings. He also knew that he had Carrasco as a last/final resort, and the September roster call-ups/reinforcements. All things considered, a very positive start. Like Alexei and his baserunning, Cooper needs to work with Richard on his throws to first base before they really come back to bite us in the butt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 19, 2008 -> 11:54 PM) Like Alexei and his baserunning, Cooper needs to work with Richard on his throws to first base before they really come back to bite us in the butt. No, I dont want Cooper helping anyone w/ their baserunning. He cant even run in the dugout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEANS Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 great job by Richard tonight, hope this will build his confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 19, 2008 -> 11:54 PM) I think KW simply made a calculation that it wasn't worth trading someone like Poreda for a pretty minimal return of 6-7 starts down the stretch. If they didn't have those conveniently placed off-days, I think there would have been really no choice but to make a move...as giving up (possibly) four more games would have been a bigger difference in the final standings. Yes. This is what I'm saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 QUOTE (scenario @ Aug 19, 2008 -> 09:26 PM) No. He went down because he just pitched and was going to be unavailable for 5 days. By sending him down and bringing up another AAA pitcher we had more depth in our bullpen. It's the exact same strategy the club executed after Broadway's start. It's good roster management if you have the arms in the minors to do it. If Richard had pitched like he did tonight - that is to say, lights out - instead of imploding like he did before being sent down do you think they would have bothered sending him back to Charlotte and calling up Broadway? I don't. I think it would've been overly optimistic to expect Richard to shut Seattle down the way he did after the big innings he gave up a few weeks ago, and the strategy of trading arms would never have happened if Richard had been better from the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 After watching the Richard start last night, he definately has a higher ceiling than Broadway. Broadway seems to be a better "pitcher" at this point, but Richard has the ability to miss bats. It will be interesting to see their progress. Clayton has to work on his consistancy if he wants to stay a starter, but he could be a nasty set up guy with his arm slot, his delivery, and his variation of pitches. Broadway looks like he could be a pitch to contact Paul Byrd type of pitcher at the high end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 QUOTE (sin city sox fan @ Aug 19, 2008 -> 10:08 PM) I have to say I was definitely in the majority who was screaming for KW to go get a starting pitcher when Jose went down. I didn't care if it was Byrd, Washburn, or somebody else of just slightly below mediocre talent. However, you have to hand it to Kenny....he knows when to trade and when not to trade. The jobs done by Broadway and Richard in each of their last starts has been an extremely pleasant surprise and gives me confidence for the rest of the year. If these two can keep it up, we may have a young staff of homegrown starters wearing a White Sox uni for quite some time. Way not to make a move Kenny! U would be lying to urself If u didn't think KW was still rolling the dice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 After listening to Rick Hahn over the weekend, that was pleanty of reassurance for why they didnt go out and get a guy like Byrd or Washburn. If they picked up a guy like Washburn it would take away the chance of going after a bigger fish this offseason. A guy like Sheets or perhaps Burnett... or it could take away for an oppurtunity for a guy to make a name for himself this season in hope for a chance for 2009 and beyond... So far Richard has looked pretty good and so has Broadway... Is Washburn/Byrd better than Richard/Broadway? They have experience in big games, but thats about it. We already have big game pitchers, the 5th slot is needed for a guy to throw 5-6 innings.... Hahn said once Harden and Sabathia were gone, there wasnt anyone left starting pitching wise out there that would make this club significantly better and I agree. I think the Sox are in a good possition what they have the rest of this season to get it done. And i like the fact to have an option at going after a bigger fish in the offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Could you imagine a thread with this title being posted here last season? OMG, Kenny's so stupid!!11!1! Fire him now!!11!1! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (lostfan @ Aug 20, 2008 -> 06:56 AM) If Richard had pitched like he did tonight - that is to say, lights out - instead of imploding like he did before being sent down do you think they would have bothered sending him back to Charlotte and calling up Broadway? I don't. Yes. I do. Remember... they didn't send down Richard and call up Broadway... They called up Adam Russell when they sent Richard down on August 5th. They added an available arm for our bullpen, which was really struggling at the time. Broadway was called up on the 11th when they sent Logan down (after his implosion). Richard was not available because he started a game in Charlotte a couple of days earlier. Broadway hadn't pitched in a week so bringing him up made more sense. He was immediately able to pitch in relief (which he did his first night up). Edited August 20, 2008 by scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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