Kalapse Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 26, 2008 -> 09:25 PM) Kalapse.....how much would we have to offer him in arbitration? $7.2M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 He refuses to get in front of the ball (see last Saturday's debacle). He fears, literally fears contact around the bag. See any play around the bag also see any DP he flys up in the air. He seems really stupid and his nowhere near the bat control hitter he was promised to be. He does not seem to even want to be here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Aug 26, 2008 -> 06:28 PM) $7.2M Your own payroll resource has him at $9 million this year. I didn't think the team could offer him a lower salary than the one he had this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 Since someone asked earlier, I think Ramirez is much better suited for 2nd base. He seems to have difficulty on grounders that stay low to the ground, and when he has to rush his throw, he struggles. Thanks Kalapse for the arbitration figures. That's not bad at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 27, 2008 -> 02:29 AM) Your own payroll resource has him at $9 million this year. I didn't think the team could offer him a lower salary than the one he had this year? I thought you have to offer 80 pct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Aug 26, 2008 -> 10:19 PM) The av and post work well together. I wouldnt say I like him. Or hate him. I dont know him, so I dont see it as my place to make rash judgments. I don't follow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 I like his game but one could easily see why people don't like him, especially earlier in the year. He just wasn't earning his keep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 26, 2008 -> 09:10 PM) Erstad busted his ass everytime he was on the field. I have no hate for Erstad as a person. It's not his fault that some members of the organization get a hard on for grinders. I cannot understand their hatred for hoagies. Really grinds my gears. QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Aug 26, 2008 -> 09:22 PM) These responses are funny. Cabrera is a 3rd in the AL in WS for SS, is way, way ahead in defensive WS and other advanced defensive metrics, and is swinging a decent (for a SS) bat. And take it from me: I f***ing hated this trade and hated O-Cab as late as this July. But he's made a believer out of me. He's not a great hitter, but he's a guy that from SS will put up a solid 280/330/390 line and more than make up for his offensive mediocrity with great defense. Like most of you after watching him for a few games I thought his defense was horrible. He rounds off balls, doesn't have a strong arm, and seems to just make routine plays look hard. But after watching him play (I'd say I've seen about 50% of the innings played so far this year) he really does make all the plays. He might not have the best range, or the best arm, or the best hands: but he does have good skills in all those areas. Rarely does he not make a tough play. The advanced defensive metrics back this up. Furthermore, he's going to net the Sox 2 nice draft picks this winter, what the hell isn't to love about that? Cabrera is a vital player on this good Sox team, there is no reason (other than the meaningless scorer stuff) to not like him. I agree completely with this, even if I don't actually like him as a player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Aug 26, 2008 -> 10:22 PM) These responses are funny. Cabrera is a 3rd in the AL in WS for SS, is way, way ahead in defensive WS and other advanced defensive metrics, and is swinging a decent (for a SS) bat. And take it from me: I f***ing hated this trade and hated O-Cab as late as this July. But he's made a believer out of me. He's not a great hitter, but he's a guy that from SS will put up a solid 280/330/390 line and more than make up for his offensive mediocrity with great defense. Like most of you after watching him for a few games I thought his defense was horrible. He rounds off balls, doesn't have a strong arm, and seems to just make routine plays look hard. But after watching him play (I'd say I've seen about 50% of the innings played so far this year) he really does make all the plays. He might not have the best range, or the best arm, or the best hands: but he does have good skills in all those areas. Rarely does he not make a tough play. The advanced defensive metrics back this up. Furthermore, he's going to net the Sox 2 nice draft picks this winter, what the hell isn't to love about that? Cabrera is a vital player on this good Sox team, there is no reason (other than the meaningless scorer stuff) to not like him. Well, let me start by saying most people don't care about the statistics when their eyes tell them the opposite. Secondly, in regards to the bold part, I've seen almost 100% of the innings this year. And no, no he does not really "make all the plays." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 His listed 2008 salary is $10 million which means the Sox will have to offer at least $8 million. Screw the questionable metrics and draft picks (it's the Sox drafting, remember?) We gave up a consistent starting pitcher for this asshole. I'm more excited to see him leaving the Sox than Darin Erstad. That's saying ALOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 26, 2008 -> 10:33 PM) I cannot understand their hatred for hoagies. Really grinds my gears. I agree completely with this, even if I don't actually like him as a player. Ooooooooooooh, he said it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Aug 27, 2008 -> 03:34 AM) His listed 2008 salary is $10 million which means the Sox will have to offer at least $8 million. Screw the questionable metrics and draft picks (it's the Sox drafting, remember?) We gave up a consistent starting pitcher for this asshole. I'm more excited to see him leaving the Sox than Darin Erstad. That's saying ALOT. Honestly, at least Danks/Floyd have been outstanding this year, which makes you grateful we created room for them. It's too bad we couldn't have received Brandon Phillips for Garland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 Who will be looking for shortstops this offseason? OC, in my mind, would be perfect in San Fran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Aug 26, 2008 -> 06:34 PM) His listed 2008 salary is $10 million which means the Sox will have to offer at least $8 million. Screw the questionable metrics and draft picks (it's the Sox drafting, remember?) We gave up a consistent starting pitcher for this asshole. Well, here's reality with what we gave up...we had to trade Garland for something. Contreras was unmovable, Vazquez I dunno...Buehrle unmovable...and after that, Floyd was out of options, and then we had Garland and Danks. In other words, either we had Garland in the rotation and Danks in the minors or we traded Garland. If all we did was get someone who netted us an extra draft pick, getting Danks in to the rotation was worth that move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Aug 26, 2008 -> 09:34 PM) His listed 2008 salary is $10 million which means the Sox will have to offer at least $8 million. Yep, this. He makes $10M this year so they could offer him at most a 20% decrease in salary: $8M. Actually ESPN has his salary at $10M but Cot's has him at $9M. Ok, I assume the extra million comes from his signing bonus which is paid over a 4 year span. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 26, 2008 -> 06:37 PM) Who will be looking for shortstops this offseason? OC, in my mind, would be perfect in San Fran. I can certainly see him winding up with the Dodgers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox1844 Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 26, 2008 -> 08:11 PM) Erstad actually seemed like he wanted to play for this team. Cabrera does not. I want to know why people think he's so pompous? Or that he doesn't want to play here? Because a winner like Joe Cowley said so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 27, 2008 -> 02:38 AM) I can certainly see him winding up with the Dodgers. I'd be surprised honestly, as they seem to have their hearts set on Furcal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 QUOTE (sox1844 @ Aug 27, 2008 -> 02:38 AM) I want to know why people think he's so pompous? Or that he doesn't want to play here? Because a winner like Joe Cowley said so? or by looking at Jermaine Dye blowing up on him about something stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox1844 Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Aug 26, 2008 -> 08:14 PM) Cabrera seems to be one of the more animated guys in the post homerun and victory celebrations Alexei looks like pure death after he hits homeruns in the dugout. Of course, based on his production, we dont fault him for it. Since Alexei is emotionless (visibly) during most games, are we to believe he doesnt want to be on the team? I wouldnt make that jump, and I dont know that we can make that jump regarding OC either. They're just different personalities. We cant purport to know what they're thinking, as much fun as it might be. I totally agree with this. Watching how much fun OC has with his team doesn't jive with the media attention he has garnered in Chicago. WHich leads me to believe that the media attention isn't warranted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 Sportsline, FOXsports say $10 million but roto has it at $9 million as well. Regardless, I can't think of too many teams offering a 20% cut to a bigger name player or even the last time the Sox went to arbitration with a player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox1844 Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 26, 2008 -> 08:41 PM) or by looking at Jermaine Dye blowing up on him about something stupid. I think we can all agree that JD was at fault on that. No? And both handled it well once it was over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Aug 27, 2008 -> 03:42 AM) Sportsline, FOXsports say $10 million but roto has it at $9 million as well. Regardless, I can't think of too many teams offering a 20% cut to a bigger name player or even the last time the Sox went to arbitration with a player. Unless OC is the WS MVP, I cannot fathom how he'll be brought back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 I want to know why people think he's so pompous? Or that he doesn't want to play here? Because a winner like Joe Cowley said so? When the Sox went to Anaheim and he received his Gold Glove, he talked about how much he missed it there and how Mike Soascia was the greatest manager ever. We should've left him behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 QUOTE (sox1844 @ Aug 27, 2008 -> 03:43 AM) I think we can all agree that JD was at fault on that. No? And both handled it well once it was over. BTW, it's not just Joe Cowley who has said that OC is hated in the clubhouse. Yes Dye was at fault, but I guarantee you he doesn't flip out like that if it was someone like Swisher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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