Why the OC hate?

[lostfan]

I want to know why people think he's so pompous? Or that he doesn't want to play here? Because a winner like Joe Cowley said so?

It's pretty easy to observe in his lackadaisical body language.

[lostfan]

Well, let me start by saying most people don't care about the statistics when their eyes tell them the opposite. Secondly, in regards to the bold part, I've seen almost 100% of the innings this year. And no, no he does not really "make all the plays."

He's got to have at least 5 more errors than he has been given in the stat sheet but somehow he isn't credited with those.

[Kalapse]

Sportsline, FOXsports say $10 million but roto has it at $9 million as well. Regardless, I can't think of too many teams offering a 20% cut to a bigger name player or even the last time the Sox went to arbitration with a player.

He makes $9M this year, $10M if you count the extra million he makes from his $4M signing bonus which is paid over the life of the deal. Since his actual salary this season is $9M I assume they could off him as little as $7.2M.

 

And yes, I agree if Orlando accepts arbitration and the 2 sides decide to go in front of an arbitrator there's no way the Sox offer him a 20% decrease in salary, Orlando would win easily. If Orlando accepts arbitration he make at least $9M next year and as much as $9.5-$10M.

[sox1844]

BTW, it's not just Joe Cowley who has said that OC is hated in the clubhouse. Yes Dye was at fault, but I guarantee you he doesn't flip out like that if it was someone like Swisher.

Really? Who else said that? All I see is him laughing and doing funny handshakes in the dugout. Hate is a pretty strong word.

[santo=dorf]

Well, here's reality with what we gave up...we had to trade Garland for something. Contreras was unmovable, Vazquez I dunno...Buehrle unmovable...and after that, Floyd was out of options, and then we had Garland and Danks. In other words, either we had Garland in the rotation and Danks in the minors or we traded Garland. If all we did was get someone who netted us an extra draft pick, getting Danks in to the rotation was worth that move.

Using that narrow minded thinking I could argue releasing Garland would've been a good move because of the way Floyd and Danks have been pitching. Who cares about the money we would eat? John and Gavin have been worth more than that.

 

Why not just trade Garland for a couple of prospects?

[fathom]

Really? Who else said that? All I see is him laughing and doing funny handshakes in the dugout. Hate is a pretty strong word.

 

Scott Merkin, Mark Gonzales, everyone on the Score

[sox1844]

Scott Merkin, Mark Gonzales, everyone on the Score

I've heard those guys reporting on the situation. Cowley is the only one who first expressed that he personally hated OC, then proceeded to announce that everyone else hated him too. Sounds like a one-sided battle to me. Whatever- if the Sox can get a ring out of this line-up, and everyone goes their seperate ways...thats fine with me. Not every player is a great fit on every team.

[Wanne]

Really? Who else said that? All I see is him laughing and doing funny handshakes in the dugout. Hate is a pretty strong word.

 

So you think a guy going into the FA market is gonna come off as a jerkoff on camera in the dugout. The dude just seems like a strange bird for some reason. That being said...I'd take him at 24M for 3 years....but no more than that. The guy's a good player no matter how strange he is...

[Princess Dye]

The av and post work well together.

 

meaning your comment fit well with Mr Perfect's expression. but hey at least a couple OC people sprouted up here now.

 

 

 

Why not just trade Garland for a couple of prospects?

 

Because we needed a top of the order hitter badly, and Cabrera provides some of that for the present. And ...well, 76 wins later, it has worked. That's why I more directed this topic towards personality speculations, as opposed to performance. It has been there, filled a need. Jon's pretty much been Jon.

[sox1844]

So you think a guy going into the FA market is gonna come off as a jerkoff on camera in the dugout. The dude just seems like a strange bird for some reason. That being said...I'd take him at 24M for 3 years....but no more than that. The guy's a good player no matter how strange he is...

Hahahahah, who ISN'T a strange bird on the White Sox?

[greg775]

there will be a lot of OC Lovers including me if he builds on tonight and we win it all and he's a reason!

[jmk853]

I think this is greatly exagerated. OC is right in the middle of any victory celebration there is. I have acutally mentally noted on a couple different occassions how OC acutally seemed to be the happiest guy on the team after a big hit by someone other than himself. I don't buy the garbage that he is disliked by the team.

 

I'm sure there are times he get under people's skin.... but in a way didn't the Sox need that?

[YASNY]

I think this is greatly exagerated. OC is right in the middle of any victory celebration there is. I have acutally mentally noted on a couple different occassions how OC acutally seemed to be the happiest guy on the team after a big hit by someone other than himself. I don't buy the garbage that he is disliked by the team.

 

I'm sure there are times he get under people's skin.... but in a way didn't the Sox need that?

 

Not really. They got AJ!

[Harry Chappas]

I do not know about the dugout and clubhouse but I do know from watching that he is really soft. I have not seen anything close to gold glove defense but he seems average and gets the benefit of a lot of questionable score keeping. The soft line drives thht he gets out of the way of (Saturday's and there was one early this or late last month). Are the epitome of his cushiness.

 

He to me is the shortstop version of Carlos Lee when it comes to defense and Carlos Lee worked hard to become average.

Edited August 27, 2008 by Jenks Heat

[RME JICO]

I just don't understand how he can have 42 multi-hit games, yet his averages floats around .270. Also, I didn't even realize he had 18 SBs.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

OC has made it pretty clear from the beginning that he wants to test free agency. Very hard to love a mercenary though he's a decent player.

[chitownsportsfan]

Cabrera really seems to be in the middle of most of the dugout celebrations. I'm not sure how you can knock him for not being a "team guy", even with the scorer and Dye bulls*** from earlier in the year. He's a mercenary sure, but he's also playing a valuable role as a great defensive shortstop with acceptable offense on a team in the middle of a pennant race. There are plenty of guys looking to get paid in MLB, I don't blame O-Cab for looking to lock up one more big contract before he enters serious decline. As long as it doesn't affect him on the field I have no problems with it.

 

I can't imagine where the team would be with Uribe at SS, especially after Crede went down yet again, that would have led to serious depth problems.

[scenario]

"Why the OC hate?"

 

Seems like many sports fans just love to have somebody on their own team to hate.

 

(And OC's early season slump and phone habits made him an easy target.)

 

So... if it wasn't him, someone else on the Sox would be catching the abuse.

 

What a guy... taking one for the team.

[YASNY]

Cabrera really seems to be in the middle of most of the dugout celebrations. I'm not sure how you can knock him for not being a "team guy", even with the scorer and Dye bulls*** from earlier in the year. He's a mercenary sure, but he's also playing a valuable role as a great defensive shortstop with acceptable offense on a team in the middle of a pennant race. There are plenty of guys looking to get paid in MLB, I don't blame O-Cab for looking to lock up one more big contract before he enters serious decline. As long as it doesn't affect him on the field I have no problems with it.

 

I can't imagine where the team would be with Uribe at SS, especially after Crede went down yet again, that would have led to serious depth problems.

 

Which is why I couldn't believe all the posts wishing the Sox would just release Uribe.

[almagest]

Jon Garland this year:

 

W-L ERA WHIP BB-K HR

11-8 4.49 1.466 49-72 20

 

So basically, his peripherals are worse this year than every other year except his rookie year (ERA+ of 95 is the lowest since his rookie year of 78), but his ERA is decent, and he has a decent record. Something tells me we'd be pretty unhappy with Jon if he were still here, given the numbers he's posted for a very good team that plays in a pitcher's park for 81 games.

 

I also don't understand the "well my eyes tell me OC sucks on defense, so the stats are obviously wrong" mentality at all. We're fans. We don't know more than professional scouts, and we don't know more than professional metrics that have proven time and time again to be very good ways to measure a player's performance. We're also a lot more likely to overreact to and remember a bad or mediocre play by someone we don't like, and it's pretty obvious OC isn't well liked by a good number of the members here.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Cabrera really seems to be in the middle of most of the dugout celebrations. I'm not sure how you can knock him for not being a "team guy", even with the scorer and Dye bulls*** from earlier in the year. He's a mercenary sure, but he's also playing a valuable role as a great defensive shortstop with acceptable offense on a team in the middle of a pennant race. There are plenty of guys looking to get paid in MLB, I don't blame O-Cab for looking to lock up one more big contract before he enters serious decline. As long as it doesn't affect him on the field I have no problems with it.

 

I can't imagine where the team would be with Uribe at SS, especially after Crede went down yet again, that would have led to serious depth problems.

Don't get me wrong. I appreciate his contributions to the team, but I don't love the guy. We've all heard about his feud with Renteria, calling the official scorer, slobbering over Scioscia and his shouting match with JD. Everything points to him being a "me" first kind of guy. Add to that the accusations of avoiding contact with runners and the hard hit balls(can't get hurt , would hurt the bottom line) and you basically have a guy who is saying "I'm good enough to make solid contributions to a winning team without risking my neck. I'm not going to get hurt and ruin my next big payday." When a guy just looks like he's not a 100% balls to the wall kind of guy you are not going to be beloved.

[ptatc]

Jon Garland this year:

 

W-L ERA WHIP BB-K HR

11-8 4.49 1.466 49-72 20

 

So basically, his peripherals are worse this year than every other year except his rookie year (ERA+ of 95 is the lowest since his rookie year of 78), but his ERA is decent, and he has a decent record. Something tells me we'd be pretty unhappy with Jon if he were still here, given the numbers he's posted for a very good team that plays in a pitcher's park for 81 games.

 

I also don't understand the "well my eyes tell me OC sucks on defense, so the stats are obviously wrong" mentality at all. We're fans. We don't know more than professional scouts, and we don't know more than professional metrics that have proven time and time again to be very good ways to measure a player's performance. We're also a lot more likely to overreact to and remember a bad or mediocre play by someone we don't like, and it's pretty obvious OC isn't well liked by a good number of the members here.

 

 

No! not on this board. You must be thinking of another one, no one overreacts here.

[RME JICO]

Jon Garland this year:

 

W-L ERA WHIP BB-K HR

11-8 4.49 1.466 49-72 20

 

So basically, his peripherals are worse this year than every other year except his rookie year (ERA+ of 95 is the lowest since his rookie year of 78), but his ERA is decent, and he has a decent record. Something tells me we'd be pretty unhappy with Jon if he were still here, given the numbers he's posted for a very good team that plays in a pitcher's park for 81 games.

I didn't realize Garland's WHIP was that high. Also, looking at his monthly splits, he has only had one really good month, with three bad months. Post-ASB:

 

W-L ERA WHIP BAA

3-2 5.31 1.51 .316

 

We would be calling for his head if he pitched like that during the pennant chase.

 

Back to OC. The guy is not a superstar (sub-.700 OPS), but he is not that bad either. He has a 16.9 VORP (5th best on team) which is 16th in the league for SS. Not great, but not bad either. He just doesn't seem like a likeable player.

[fathom]

I know I overreact in my dislike for certain players. However, when Balta, Kalapse, Santo, and Tony all agree with me, then I feel like the hatred is justified.

[Princess Dye]

Anyone who brings up OC's comments about Scioscia being the best manager he has played under...

 

Hope no one who dislikes that has also criticized Guillen's in-game managing. If so, then you're likely agreeing with Orlando, no?