So... what are our options?

[bigruss]

A patch for the next 3 years?

Haha, yea, but unless he learns how to draw more walks I think he wouldnt be used properly in that position, if we have a guy who gets on base at a good clip like .350-.370 and isnt a big stealer, then he would be great with the amount of hits that he gets. A base stealer may hurt him because personally I dont think he has the bat control of a guy like Iguchi to be effective.

 

Looking back I wouldve loved that trade for Duch if it was at all possible. (or Street as well, but I dont like him that much and Duch has surprised me by staying strong so far).

[GreatScott82]

The 2008 team is very much one dimensional. Its important to have those speedy guys in ur lineup. We only have one guy who has true speed and thats Alexie. Looking at many of the divison leaders in the AL, all of them have guys at the top with speed. Boston has Pedroia, Elsbury. Minny has Gomez, TB has Upton and Crawford, LA has Figgins, not mention many others who can steal at any given moment. Its obvious we need to get fast, need alittle more diversity in the lineup. Im sure KW knows this and im sure KW will figure something out in the offseason. As of now we just have to hope that our boppers keep bopping because thats the only way the 2008 White Sox can win games.

[joejoesox]

Isn't Duch on the DL now though?

[fathom]

Isn't Duch on the DL now though?

 

Yep, and there's been rumors of a degenerative hip condition.

[LVSoxFan]

You can talk about the hitless wonder stretches in 05 all day but that team:

 

-could hit clutch

-had stellar defense

-found endless ways to win by only a run

 

Do you really think this team in any way resembles 05, besides four strong arms (that aren't as consistent this year)?

 

I see a lot of big boppers who, when they're on, its great, but when they're not we have no answers. #1 and #2 should be setting the table for the middle of the lineup, not watching them from the dugout or standing on base hoping for that homer which all too often ends in a popup.

 

I just do not get how people don't remember how we retooled in 05 and how radical and questioned it was.

 

This team looks nothing like 05.

Edited September 2, 2008 by LVSoxFan

[whitesoxfan99]

The 2008 team is very much one dimensional. Its important to have those speedy guys in ur lineup. We only have one guy who has true speed and thats Alexie. Looking at many of the divison leaders in the AL, all of them have guys at the top with speed. Boston has Pedroia, Elsbury. Minny has Gomez, TB has Upton and Crawford, LA has Figgins, not mention many others who can steal at any given moment. Its obvious we need to get fast, need alittle more diversity in the lineup. Im sure KW knows this and im sure KW will figure something out in the offseason. As of now we just have to hope that our boppers keep bopping because thats the only way the 2008 White Sox can win games.

 

Carlos Gomez is currently a freaking terrible baseball player. I cringe when people bring him up as the type of player the Sox need because he he has been one of the worst hitters in the major leagues. He strikes out a ton, doesn't hit for average, and doesn't walk. But you could have him in your lineup if you want speed. I will take a guy who is actually good at baseball. He may be good someday but he is currently the definition of an awful player. Jacoby Ellsbury may steal bases but he isn't great at getting on base and isn't hitting for power either. Those are not the type of players we need. Speed is nice but only if the guy is actually a good baseball player. I would love to have a Pedroia on our team because he hits line drives and is just a really good hitter, that he has speed is a luxury. I would love to add some guys who hit for average and hit line drives. Whether they have speed is far less important.

[fathom]

You can talk about the hitless wonder stretches in 05 all day but that team:

 

-could hit clutch

-had stellar defense

-found endless ways to win by only a run

 

All things that are easy to do when you have a bullpen that is among the best in baseball history.

[LVSoxFan]

All things that are easy to do when you have a bullpen that is among the best in baseball history.

 

So if we just beef up the pen, remaining in 2004 style will pay off.

 

No thanks.

[fathom]

So if we just beef up the pen, remaining in 2004 style will pay off.

 

No thanks.

 

It was working quite well earlier this year when Linebrink was healthy. KW should be very thankful that the 2005 team won the World Series, as trading Carlos Lee for Scott Podsednik has to be one of the worst trades in recent history (in terms of talent level).

[whitesoxbrian]

Trade for Brian Roberts and Adrian Beltre.

Sign or trade for a good/great relief pitcher as Linebrink clearly can't be counted on for a full season.

[Balta1701]

It was working quite well earlier this year when Linebrink was healthy. KW should be very thankful that the 2005 team won the World Series, as trading Carlos Lee for Scott Podsednik has to be one of the worst trades in recent history (in terms of talent level).

The key on that trade is still gettign the Brewers to take on more salary.

[fathom]

Trade for Brian Roberts and Adrian Beltre.

Sign or trade for a good/great relief pitcher as Linebrink clearly can't be counted on for a full season.

 

Who are all these great prospects we have to trade for? Also, do you really think KW will trade for Beltre, who is a Boras client heading into his walk season. The 5th starter spot, 3rd base, and 2nd base are the biggest holes by far.

[fathom]

The key on that trade is still gettign the Brewers to take on more salary.

 

Oh, of course, and freeing up the salary for the Sox to acquire more players. I don't think anyone on here really wants to see us make a move like that again, unless it's to clear Konerko's contract.

[whitesoxbrian]

Who are all these great prospects we have to trade for? Also, do you really think KW will trade for Beltre, who is a Boras client heading into his walk season. The 5th starter spot, 3rd base, and 2nd base are the biggest holes by far.

Are you serious? Who cares? It's called "don't negotiate with him" then. Keep him for the year, and let him walk. If he isn't going to want tons per year, then maybe sign him to a 2-4 year deal, but if he's going to want what Crede does, screw it.

 

And BTW- how can you think 3rd and 2nd aren't big holes? Going into next year, we might have Getz and Fields at those spots, and that would be brutal.

[fathom]

Are you serious? Who cares? It's called "don't negotiate with him" then. Keep him for the year, and let him walk. If he isn't going to want tons per year, then maybe sign him to a 2-4 year deal, but if he's going to want what Crede does, screw it.

 

And BTW- how can you think 3rd and 2nd aren't big holes? Going into next year, we might have Getz and Fields at those spots, and that would be brutal.

 

Beltre will want more than what Crede wants. Why trade all of your prospects (Beltre would likely cost us Poreda) for a one year rental? Also, I did say that 2b/3b are big holes.

Edited September 2, 2008 by fathom

[whitesoxfan99]

And BTW- how can you think 3rd and 2nd aren't big holes? Going into next year, we might have Getz and Fields at those spots, and that would be brutal.

 

Did you read his post?

[fathom]

There's a better chance of Hank Blalock being our 3rd baseman next year than Beltre. I'm a big fan of Beltre's, but he's become very overrated on this site (Eric Chavez-esque).

[whitesoxbrian]

Beltre will want more than what Crede wants. Why trade all of your prospects (Beltre would likely cost us Poreda) for a one year rental? Also, I did say that 2b/3b are big holes.

First off- my fault, I thought it said "aren't".

 

Secondly- the Mariners aren't going to want tons for Beltre. If they think they will get our best pitching prospect for a .260 hitter with a gold glove for 1 year, they're nuts. They'll likely want Fields and Broadway, and that's fine with me. It'd probably be impossible to get both Roberts and Beltre, but it all depends on how much Baltimore would want for their 1-year rental.

 

There's a better chance of Hank Blalock being our 3rd baseman next year than Beltre. I'm a big fan of Beltre's, but he's become very overrated on this site (Eric Chavez-esque).

I wouldn't mind that, except that he's probably going to want Crede money as well and for a guy who gets hurt every year, I'd probably pass.

Edited September 2, 2008 by whitesoxbrian

[fathom]

First off- my fault, I thought it said "aren't".

 

Secondly- the Mariners aren't going to want tons for Beltre. If they think they will get our best pitching prospect for a .260 hitter with a gold glove for 1 year, they're nuts. They'll likely want Fields and Broadway, and that's fine with me. It'd probably be impossible to get both Roberts and Beltre, but it all depends on how much Baltimore would want for their 1-year rental.

 

So if they want Fields/Broadway for Beltre, don't you think there's 5 other teams that will beat that package? They asked for Slowey, Blackburn, or Perkins from the Twins, along with another prospect. Their asking price will drop a little in the offseason, even though Beltre's on quite the tear right now (raising his value).

[santo=dorf]

That is a good analysis but it only further points the finger on Konerko and Thome. Those guys are both hitting below .250 - it would be naive to call that an anamoly given their ages and apparent decline in skill. They are major contributors to the Sox being so low in hits. More over, they are SLOW and hit into A TON of GIDP. Does that mean we should replace them with hitters that can hit .270 - .280 with 15 - 20 hrs? Maybe a Sean Casey / Carlos Guillen type hitter?

That is a product of a guy in front of them having a high OBP. It's going to happen. You do realize every regular in the Sox lineup is in double digits for GIDP's don't you?

 

Hell, Griffey's hit into 5 in 72 at-bats, and the speedy Dewaynse wise has hit into 4 in 66 ab's.

[whitesoxbrian]

So if they want Fields/Broadway for Beltre, don't you think there's 5 other teams that will beat that package? They asked for Slowey, Blackburn, or Perkins from the Twins, along with another prospect. Their asking price will drop a little in the offseason, even though Beltre's on quite the tear right now (raising his value).

That's true. It was just a suggestion.

 

I'd rather have Roberts anyway- a .300 AVG guy, with a .380 OBP and 40+ SB every year. When we won, we had a leadoff guy. Roberts would give that to us.

[IlliniKrush]

You can talk about the hitless wonder stretches in 05 all day but that team:

 

-could hit clutch

-had stellar defense

-found endless ways to win by only a run

 

Do you really think this team in any way resembles 05, besides four strong arms (that aren't as consistent this year)?

 

I see a lot of big boppers who, when they're on, its great, but when they're not we have no answers. #1 and #2 should be setting the table for the middle of the lineup, not watching them from the dugout or standing on base hoping for that homer which all too often ends in a popup.

 

I just do not get how people don't remember how we retooled in 05 and how radical and questioned it was.

 

This team looks nothing like 05.

This comes up now and then, and a lot of misguided people point to Pods and 'Ozzieball' as reasons we won in 05, when it's simply not true.

 

Amazing starting and bullpen pitching and home runs won it.

 

In 05, they were 5th in the league in HRs. 22nd in OBP. 11th in Slugging. Dead last in doubles.

 

It wasn't really grindy ozzie ball like people want to think it was. It wasn't as easy as outing Maggs and Lee and inserting Pods on the offensive side.

 

I'd much rather have this lineup over the 05 offense that struggled mightily at times.

 

You don't need an entire philosophical change.

Edited September 2, 2008 by IlliniKrush

[santo=dorf]

It's not misguided people, it's just LVsox looking for a chance to bash Thome and home runs. Only a matter of time before we get the "Man, I miss that guy [Rowand]" post.

[jenksycat]

This comes up now and then, and a lot of misguided people point to Pods and 'Ozzieball' as reasons we won in 05, when it's simply not true.

 

Amazing starting and bullpen pitching and home runs won it.

 

In 05, they were 5th in the league in HRs. 22nd in OBP. 11th in Slugging. Dead last in doubles.

 

It wasn't really grindy ozzie ball like people want to think it was. It wasn't as easy as outing Maggs and Lee and inserting Pods on the offensive side.

 

I'd much rather have this lineup over the 05 offense that struggled mightily at times.

 

You don't need an entire philosophical change.

 

Yeah people tend to think it was "ozzzzzzie ballll" that won the WS. It wasn't. It was the lights out bullpen and 4 stud starting pitchers, defense, and a dash of offense.

 

Do we rely on the hr? Of course, look where we play 81 games out of the season. The pitching carried us in the beginning of the season, then the offense came around and the pitching fell off a bit. Now that both the pitching and offense have been sketchy, we struggle. This team is streaky as hell, and I'd rather them "get hot" around September 15 and last for a few weeks.

[fathom]

Every team is going to have holes going into the off-season, and I'm actually happy those are ours. In reality, those 3 are probably the easiest to fill.

 

Agreed, you know from our PM a few days ago that we both feel KW's in a much better position to build for the next few years than he was at this point last season.