Anyone else hate our offseason moves?

[Wanne]

I can't believe people who are actually b****ing about the OC trade don't realize that if that trade's not made...Gavin's not in the rotation to start the year. Hmmmmm....what's Gavin's record? OC's been a pretty solid addition. Is he an ideal leadoff guy...not really...but he's raised his avg pretty steadily throughout the year and has provided solid D...what more do you want. So you'd prefer Garland over Gavin right now. Seems like at the least a wash and we got a starting SS out of it...so in my opinion...that argument is a pretty moot point with Gavin's arrival.

 

Swish...like the move a lot. He'll be big for this team down the road as well...and a nice contract also.

 

Linebrink...be nice to have him healthy again.

 

Lexi...more than anybody could have hoped for.

 

CQ...possible MVP...again...more than anybody could have hoped for.

 

If anything...maybe question getting OC for Garland instead of Figgins...but the contracts determined that one. But if that deal's made...I doubt Kenny would have gotten Swish. All the moves were relevent IMO...and I have no problem whatsoever with them...actually somewhat pleased.

 

 

If anything...maybe complain about the deals that weren't made...like Paulie possibly going to the Halos for a decent package surrounding Figgins...or Santana. But like I said...I think things have all worked out ok. So say we got Kendrick...that pretty much means we wouldn't have known what we had in Lexi.

Edited September 3, 2008 by Wanne

[caulfield12]

Yeah, yeah, ironic my name is CQMVP. My point, was that we had holes last year that killed us, and we STILL have those same holes this year. Obviously, given my name, I agree with everyone that says CQ was an absolute steal. No argument there. Ramirez has been a diamond in the rough too. But we really don't know what we have yet with those two. They might put up similiar numbers for the rest of their careers, or this season might just be an anamoly. Either way, they cost us nothing, so those are great moves.

 

OC is not a leadoff hitter, which we've needed since 2005. Nick Swisher is not the CF we've needed, ever since we got rid of Rowand... We've had holes at CF and leadoff hitter since 2005... Three seasons later and we're still trying to address the same holes in our lineup? Come on.

 

Linebrink has been great when he's healthy, but the Brewers really got their money's worth last year after they acquired him. He pitched a TON at the end of the season, and most people would tell you that's the major reason he's been on the DL so much this year. How much does he have left in the tank? Will he even pitch again this year in the ML? That remains to be seen. Our bullpen stats really don't tell the full story this season. We had a stellar first couple months, mostly because of Linebrink being lights out, but it has been a downhill ride ever since. I can't count how many games the bullpen has lost for us over the last two months.

 

How big of an upgrade is OC over Uribe? I don't think he's as solid defensively as Uribe, and he's a little bit better at the plate. It seems like OC's errors come in the worst possible situations, on, what seem to be, relatively routine plays. It also seems to me that they always end up leading to a game being blown wide open and out of reach. I'd definitely prefer to have John Garland in the lineup right now, and Uribe playing every day at SS. Even if OC is a slight upgrade at the plate.

 

On to Swisher over Brian Anderson.... Defensively? Not even close. Give me BA any day of the week. Offensively? Well, Swisher is batting an amazing .226 right now. He's what, 2 for his last 30? BA is at .235, and it's a lot harder to get hits in the situations that BA has been this season. He comes into the games late and gets one, maybe two at bats. Yeah, I would actually prefer BA in the lineup every day over Swisher. Call me crazy!

 

I just think that Kenny could have done a much, much better job in the offseason. Ultimately, I think the Swisher and OC moves will be the reason we don't go anywhere this year, IF we can somehow make it into the playoffs. With the way we've been playing lately, I really don't see us holding off the Twins, and if we do, we're one and done. Our pitching is starting to drop off. Danks seems like he's running on empty, and we only have four legitimate starters to begin with. Now we may be down to three? Our bullpen is still not healthy, and they do their job one out of every 5 games. Our offense has been sporadic, at best. If we don't hit home runs, we don't win. Period. I hope I'm wrong, but I've watched pretty much every game over the last 3 months...and this is just what I've witnessed.

 

1) We're going to get 2 high draft picks when we lose Cabrera, who we never intended to keep long-term IMO, with Ramirez being KW's "hoped for" solution in 2009, which is looking to be on target right now

 

2) We needed to shed Garland's and Garcia's salaries to keep the decks free/open for some younger pitching, so we have Danks and Floyd now, and our rotation isn't soaking up an incredible percentage of the payroll, like the 2006 team

 

3) Gavin Floyd or Danks>>>Jon Garland, not even accounting for the fact that they're both huge bargains salary-wise

 

4) Going into the season with BA as the starting CF was really not a realistic possibility for anyone but Sox bloggers and fanboys...Anderson is not a power hitter, but he has no fundamental skills and he doesn't bring much else to the table (such as smart baserunning or more than 5-10 stolen bases per year, if he played the full season). Heck, if we had a decent CF the first half of 2006, we might have been able to hold onto the playoff spot, instead of embarassing Mackowiak (and this year Griffey) by putting them out there. If BA could bunt, hit to the opposite field, cut down his strikeouts and do some of the little things to be a good "complementary" player like Iguchi was in 2005/06, I would say great, sign me up, even though I don't think he's better than Torii Hunter/Andrew Jones/Jim Edmonds in their primes like many BA fans who are convinced KW is the devil and is out to destroy the team.

 

Even this week, Ozzie has more confidence that Jerry Owens will get something started against a RH pitcher...moreso than believing BA is the answer.

 

5) If we didn't have Swisher, we wouldn't have had any hitter with a semblance of power capable of getting hot and carrying the team for stretches of a week or so, like Swisher has done this year when he was really on fire.

 

6) Uribe over a full season leaves us with more offensive problems and without a leadoff hitter...taking OC off the club would have left us with who batting leadoff? Brian Anderson? Ramirez? Statistically, Jim Thome would have been our best leadoff hitter!!!! Swisher at least has SOME plate patience and takes some walks, although his OBP and OPS haven't been up to career levels this season. However, if you had argued on July 1st that he would have 25 homers by the end of the season, I would have taken that bet against you.

 

7) Having Garland, Sweeney and Gio Gonzalez this season wouldn't have put us in a better position to win. Sweeney's low 700's OPS is okay in Oakland, which is a stadium which values speed and defense more than power, and where a doubles hitter MIGHT have a place in the line-up. In Comiskey, he's definitely a liability at one of the corner spots, and his defense isn't good enough for center (only his arm would be okay there).

Edited September 3, 2008 by caulfield12

[Harry Chappas]

I missed the Swisher carrying the team part of the season.

 

I am not sure you are not seeing Nick Swisher for what he is. I really want to like him but he seems the kind of guy that gets the meaningless 2 out walk and fits the mold of wildly inconsistent like the rest of the Sox line-up. He is hitting lower than Thome and Konerko and they have a history of success which Swisher does not.

[Balta1701]

I can't believe people who are actually b****ing about the OC trade don't realize that if that trade's not made...Gavin's not in the rotation to start the year. Hmmmmm....what's Gavin's record? OC's been a pretty solid addition. Is he an ideal leadoff guy...not really...but he's raised his avg pretty steadily throughout the year and has provided solid D...what more do you want. So you'd prefer Garland over Gavin right now. Seems like at the least a wash and we got a starting SS out of it...so in my opinion...that argument is a pretty moot point with Gavin's arrival.

Actually, Gavin would still have been in the rotation. Gavin didn't have any options left, and they weren't going to let him walk for nothing. The only guy in our starting rotation who had a minor league option left was John Danks. So, quite simply, if you kept Garland, until Jose got hurt, Danks was in AAA.

[scenario]

Regarding the Great Jon Garland... a little reality check here...

 

Gar has a 4.54 ERA this season (31st in the AL) with a .294 BAA and a 1.45 WHIP... not exactly $10M worth of production.

 

Meanwhile, Danks is 11th in the AL in ERA... and Gavin is 13th.

 

Would keeping Garland have made us better? No.

 

[Chisoxfn]

Swisher and OC have been total disappointments this year. I can't stand either of them. I certainly hope Kenny has some better moves this upcoming offseason, or you can forget about playoffs next year. Right now, we're really lucky that Detroit and Cleveland have had terrible seasons.

OC hasn't been as good as advertised, but he's still been very solid and a significant upgrade over the performance the Sox have gotten at shortstop over the prior couple seasons. Swisher has been an absolute dissapointment. I know people will point to his solid power numbers and good OBP but as a whole I have a hard time accepting anyone who hits for the average he does (and strikes out with the abundance he does) to be an effective player (at least given his hype). However, I think Swisher should be more productive in future years, although, I wouldn't be opposed to dealing him if the right offer were out there (ie, if the Sox could use him to get a legit CFer).

 

Its also funny that you ignore acquisitions like Linebrink/Dotel/Quentin/Alexei Ramirez who all have been very key performers for a team that no one expected to contend. Plus, Jon Garland hasn't exactly been dominant. Given the performances of Danks/Floyd for about 90% of the season thus far you really can't hammer the fact that the Sox gave up Jon.

[Chisoxfn]

Regarding the Great Jon Garland... a little reality check here...

 

Gar has a 4.54 ERA this season (31st in the AL) with a .294 BAA and a 1.45 WHIP... not exactly $10M worth of production.

 

Meanwhile, Danks is 11th in the AL in ERA... and Gavin is 13th.

 

Would keeping Garland have made us better? No.

He's pitching half of his games in a hitters park and has had his ERA skewed by a few horrible outings. Bottom line I'd say he's pretty much pitching consistent with his salary (in terms of ERA/Wins). Basically put he's been a bit above league average and market value for that is right around 10M.

[Chisoxfn]

The Cabrera deal sucked...the Swisher deal has a while to go to tell if it was good or not.

 

However, I like the lower end deals of acquiring Quentin and signing Alexei.

If that deal isn't made the Sox don't have a chance at being where they are today. I'm sorry, but Alexei wasn't ready to be a starter from opening day and I certainly didn't want to sit through another season of watching Uribe play for the Sox. Out of curiosity, what would the Sox lineup have looked like had the Sox not made that deal?

 

Well they would have had Uribe/Ramirez in the middle infield and this would have meant that Ozzie would have to find another leadoff hitter. This means Jerry Owens would have been the starting outfielder and Quentin would have never had his chance to shine. Garland would also be on the roster which means that Floyd would have been dealt (since he was out of options).

 

Oh and the Sox are going to get 2 draft picks for OC too. I still think the Angels probably get such out of Garland, but given the Sox needs there is absolutely no way they are competing without making that deal..NONE.

 

You can throw out other hypothetical deals the Sox could have made involving Garland but the reality is Kenny made the deal he needed to.

[Chisoxfn]

funny we are in first place in september in a division we thought we couldn't win, and we are complaining about the deals now. strange. I was the first to complain about the deals in the spring. I will admit I never thought we would be where we are today, but i will say we wouldn't be where we are today if we had garland, sweeney and the great GIO. So at least for this year I think they were good deals. By the way GIO SUCKS. He will never make it, and sweeney is not all that great, He is just playing on a glorified triple A team right now.

Completely agree with you. The reality is somehow Kenny has turned this team into something to be excited about. You have two young starters that have been well above league average and have the ability to be bookends of this rotation for years to come (Floyd/Danks). You have a nice crop of young position players (as much as I dislike Swisher, he deserves to be considered part of this group which involves Ramirez/Quentin/Swisher) plus a solid mix of vets.

[Chisoxfn]

We have a few more years though to see how the Swisher trade was. It's hard to complain about an offseason that gave us a lot of pieces to compete this season.

Plus it didn't hurt future off-seasons. Pretty much every piece acquired has some sort of future value to the franchise (including OC, who will net the Sox a couple picks).

[Chisoxfn]

Sign me up for that trade

I'd do it in a heartbeat. Beltre will be a type A free agent and fills a significant need. Plus I don't really see Swisher's value at 1B. At least not if he produces like he did this season.

[Chisoxfn]

Actually, Gavin would still have been in the rotation. Gavin didn't have any options left, and they weren't going to let him walk for nothing. The only guy in our starting rotation who had a minor league option left was John Danks. So, quite simply, if you kept Garland, until Jose got hurt, Danks was in AAA.

Gavin would have been traded. Danks was not going to AAA.

[santo=dorf]

I can't believe people who are actually b****ing about the OC trade don't realize that if that trade's not made...Gavin's not in the rotation to start the year. Hmmmmm....what's Gavin's record? OC's been a pretty solid addition. Is he an ideal leadoff guy...not really...but he's raised his avg pretty steadily throughout the year and has provided solid D...what more do you want. So you'd prefer Garland over Gavin right now. Seems like at the least a wash and we got a starting SS out of it...so in my opinion...that argument is a pretty moot point with Gavin's arrival.

I hate this logic. If the Sox released Buehrle or traded Garland + all of his salary to another team would it be worth it just because Floyd got a chance to go in the rotation?

 

Cabrera is so overrated. He's a dickhead and has had defensive miscues that have led to huge innings for the opposition (some were called errors and others were mysteriously hits. I guess the box didn't want to deal with him over the phone.) His OBP isn't very good and his double totals are down. Despite the .270ish average, he currently leads the AL in total outs.

 

Cabrera has been a flop.

[RockRaines]

Swisher and OC have been total disappointments this year. I can't stand either of them. I certainly hope Kenny has some better moves this upcoming offseason, or you can forget about playoffs next year. Right now, we're really lucky that Detroit and Cleveland have had terrible seasons.

They are both improvements over the production of CF and SS the last few years. Kenny probably had the best offseason of any general manager in baseball.

[RockRaines]

I hate this logic. If the Sox released Buehrle or traded Garland + all of his salary to another team would it be worth it just because Floyd got a chance to go in the rotation?

 

Cabrera is so overrated. He's a dickhead and has had defensive miscues that have led to huge innings for the opposition (some were called errors and others were mysteriously hits. I guess the box didn't want to deal with him over the phone.) His OBP isn't very good and his double totals are down. Despite the .270ish average, he currently leads the AL in total outs.

 

Cabrera has been a flop.

If Garland is in the rotation, Danks is in the minors. Thats just the truth.

 

And OC's production is an improvement of our SS production the last few years offensively. I wouldnt say thats a flop at all, especially when he brings us draft picks in the offseason.

[sox1844]

I hate this logic. If the Sox released Buehrle or traded Garland + all of his salary to another team would it be worth it just because Floyd got a chance to go in the rotation?

 

Cabrera is so overrated. He's a dickhead and has had defensive miscues that have led to huge innings for the opposition (some were called errors and others were mysteriously hits. I guess the box didn't want to deal with him over the phone.) His OBP isn't very good and his double totals are down. Despite the .270ish average, he currently leads the AL in total outs.

 

Cabrera has been a flop.

I'm sorry, but to say "flop" is unbelievably stupid. Look at his career averages. What did KW expect? He's having a solid year, batting lead off on a new team. I think we got exactly what we expected.

 

Swish on the other hand...

[AWhiteSoxinNJ]

Thread = Fail!

[RockRaines]

Thread = Fail!

+1

[Chisoxfn]

I'm sorry, but to say "flop" is unbelievably stupid. Look at his career averages. What did KW expect? He's having a solid year, batting lead off on a new team. I think we got exactly what we expected.

 

Swish on the other hand...

The one mistake was that the Sox didn't find a leadoff hitter and had to put OC in a spot where he isn't best suited (no one in there right mind could possibly consider him a good leadoff hitter). However, he's doing an admirable job in a tough spot.

[sox1844]

I also don't get why people think that Swisher's "amazing" personality is going to change the fact that he's a career .250 hitter. I bet his clown attitude is more annoying in the clubhouse than it is motivating.

[alexgtp]

Not at all.

 

More disappointed with our key guys underperforming this year.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I also don't get why people think that Swisher's "amazing" personality is going to change the fact that he's a career .250 hitter. I bet his clown attitude is more annoying in the clubhouse than it is motivating.

 

 

I disagree. I have neither seen or heard of any complaints about his attitude. In fact, its nice to have someone like that on this team to lighten things up.

[RockRaines]

I also don't get why people think that Swisher's "amazing" personality is going to change the fact that he's a career .250 hitter. I bet his clown attitude is more annoying in the clubhouse than it is motivating.

Thats a pretty terrible thing to bet on.

[jenksycat]

I also don't get why people think that Swisher's "amazing" personality is going to change the fact that he's a career .250 hitter. I bet his clown attitude is more annoying in the clubhouse than it is motivating.

 

I'd much rather have him than a team full of PK's and JD's who sit on the bench and read books in between innings.

[The Ginger Kid]