Sarah Palin

[BigSqwert]

Can Palin be a mother and a vice president?

 

The left would normally scoff at such a question. This was part of the feminist fight...the liberal fight for women. (Those on the right just wanted them home, pregnant, and in the kitchen.) The opportunity for both a career and a family and not having to chose between the two. That was the goal. So liberals are all for the advancement of women, but only one that fits their mold.

Shouldn't use blanket statements like that. I'm part of the "left" and that question has not even crossed my mind. There are about 100 other questions that have though.

[bmags]

Not to totally derail the thread, but exactly what ARE RSO's accomplishments?

 

here is a good article on him in state senate:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/30/us/polit...amp;oref=slogin

[BigSqwert]

...so some people that are intelligent enough to recognize mcCain's complete joke of accomplishments, policies, and voting record, will still vote for him because they at least like the guy (sadly that plays a huge part at the end of the day).

 

Fixed

[whitesoxfan101]

Not to totally derail the thread, but exactly what ARE RSO's accomplishments?

 

What does RSO stand for? I know it means Obama though, and his list of accomplishments is about as long as the line of Chicago Cubs championship banners.

 

At the end of the day I just hope 60 days is enough time to hammer on the fact that Obama clearly isn't fit to run this country. The problem is he's such a tremendous speaker that many Americans will ignore his record. Plus McCain isn't exactly someone that wows you so some people that are intelligent enough to recognize Obama's complete joke of accomplishments, policies, and voting record, will still vote for him because they at least like the guy (sadly that plays a huge part at the end of the day).

 

You should post here more often.

Edited September 3, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[lostfan]

What does RSO stand for? I know it means Obama though, and his list of accomplishments is about as long as the line of Chicago Cubs championship banners.

Rock Star Obama

[BigSqwert]

What does RSO stand for? I know it means Obama though, and his list of accomplishments is about as long as the line of Chicago Cubs championship banners.

What exactly has McCain really accomplished in 26 years in office? I mean honestly.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Not to totally derail the thread, but exactly what ARE RSO's accomplishments?

the HOPE Act, which increased Pell Grants to $5100

The Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 (aka Google for Government)

The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act

The 2007 Government Ethics Bill

 

Those would be the main ones.

 

Barack has written a total of 890 Bills and co-sponsored another 1096 since he started serving in the U.S. Senate.

 

That also doesnt include anything he did while in the Illinois state senate which he was praised as "bi-partisan", even by republicans.

Edited September 3, 2008 by Athomeboy_2000

[whitesoxfan101]

What exactly has McCain really accomplished in 26 years in office? I mean honestly.

 

This answer to my question (another question, and a silly one at that) tells me all I need to know about Obama's accomplishments.

 

Can Palin be a mother and a vice president?

 

The left would normally scoff at such a question. This was part of the feminist fight...the liberal fight for women. (Those on the right just wanted them home, pregnant, and in the kitchen.) The opportunity for both a career and a family and not having to chose between the two. That was the goal. So liberals are all for the advancement of women, but only one that fits their mold.

 

Of course. If a woman had run for VP on the left and even a single person on the right asked the question, it would be another case of the right being sexist, elitist pigs with no plans for broadening the horizons of their party. But it's ok for the left to ask the question apparently since Palin isn't experienced, and the left is the exclusive bastion of feminist thought. Hypocrisy is beautiful, and the last sentence of yoru post said it beautifully.

Edited September 3, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[whitesoxfan101]

That also doesnt include anything he did while in the Illinois state senate which he was praised as "bi-partisan", even by republicans.

 

I don't know enough about his record in the Illinois senate to comment on it, but "bi-partisan" and Obama will never be confused with his record in the U.S. senate.

Edited September 3, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[HuskyCaucasian]

I don't know enough about his record in the Illinois senate to comment on it, but "bi-partisan" and Obama will never be confused with his record in the U.S. senate.

ok... willing to work across the aisle when necessary to get things done. Bi-partisan might have not been the right wording to use.

[lostfan]

This answer to my question (another question, and a silly one at that) tells me all I need to know about Obama's accomplishments.

 

 

 

Of course. If a woman had run for VP on the left and even a single person on the right asked the question, it would be another case of the right being sexist, elitist pigs with no plans for broadening the horizons of their party. But it's ok for the left to ask the question apparently since Palin isn't experienced, and the left is the exclusive bastion of feminist thought. Hypocrisy is beautiful, and the last sentence of yoru post said it beautifully.

If we are speaking in sweeping generalizations and talking about hypocrisy, why do I keep seeing "the right" on TV playing the sexist card every 20-30 minutes at the slightest hint of criticism of Palin? Especially after making such a fuss about the race card. That's really been burning my ass lately.

[jackie hayes]

Can Palin be a mother and a vice president?

 

The left would normally scoff at such a question. This was part of the feminist fight...the liberal fight for women. (Those on the right just wanted them home, pregnant, and in the kitchen.) The opportunity for both a career and a family and not having to chose between the two. That was the goal. So liberals are all for the advancement of women, but only one that fits their mold.

Is anyone here raising that question?

 

Of course she can. If you make this choice, then the job comes first for you. Maybe her family life suffers, but that's her choice. It doesn't affect me, it doesn't affect the country, and I don't care. It's a non-issue.

 

Edit: As for the advancement of women, well, duh. If by "mold" you mean "someone whose beliefs are at least in the ballpark of mine", then yes, I only want a woman who fits that "mold" to be prez/vp. Saying that liberals should support any woman whatever her policy beliefs is a pretty funny position.

Edited September 3, 2008 by jackie hayes

[Balta1701]

This answer to my question (another question, and a silly one at that) tells me all I need to know about Obama's accomplishments.

 

 

 

Of course. If a woman had run for VP on the left and even a single person on the right asked the question, it would be another case of the right being sexist, elitist pigs with no plans for broadening the horizons of their party. But it's ok for the left to ask the question apparently since Palin isn't experienced, and the left is the exclusive bastion of feminist thought. Hypocrisy is beautiful, and the last sentence of yoru post said it beautifully.

2 points to make in reply. If it's a bad thing for the Dems to supposedly cower behind every criticism of Obama as a racial attack, then is it equally bad for the other side to cower behind every criticism of Sarah Palin as an attack on women?

 

Secondly, you make that statement quite readily blaming the left for the family-based criticism of Governor Palin. This leaves me an obvious route to undermine your attack...simply find a prominent figure on the right that is attacking Governor Palin for those reasons.

I am extremely disappointed in the choice of Sarah Palin as the Vice Presidential candidate of the Republican Party....

 

I’m frankly and sadly caught in the dilemma of having to balance policy versus example in touting a candidate for the office of the First Family...

 

Role models are very important. Children and young adults look to those who are visible and successful as a road map of what is acceptable behavior and emulate those actions over the morals and values their parents and churches have taught and tried to reinforce. It’s a tough go these days, when the “bad that men or women do” is used for entertainment purposes without judgment, or is excused because of political or financial considerations.

 

I’m stunned - couldn’t the Republican Party find one competent female with adult children to run for Vice President with McCain? I realize his advisors probably didn’t want a “mature” woman, as the Democrats keep harping on his age. But really, what kind of role model is a woman whose fifth child was recently born with a serious issue, Down Syndrome, and then goes back to the job of Governor within days of the birth?

 

I am haunted by the family pictures of the Palins during political photo-ops, showing the eldest daughter, now pregnant with her own child, cuddling the family’s newborn. When Mom and Dad both work full-time (no matter how many folks get involved with the children), it becomes a somewhat chaotic situation. Certainly, if a child becomes ill and is rushed to the hospital, and you’re on the hotline with both Israel and Iran as nuclear tempers are flaring, where’s your attention going to be? Where should your attention be? Well, once you put your hand on the Bible and make that oath, your attention has to be with the government of the United States of America.

Now, frankly, I disagree with those sentiments. But they're posted now...because you want to pretend that all these anti-feminist attacks against her are coming from those evil liberals, and you're simply wrong. I'm sure there are some going after her for those reasons, but you're trying to pretend that one of the major problems the right wing folks might have with her is coming entirely from my side, and that's just incorrect.

[whitesoxfan101]

ok... willing to work across the aisle when necessary to get things done. Bi-partisan might have not been the right wording to use.

 

Well that I would agree with, and it's one of the few things I like about him. Even with as far to the left as he is, he has generally shown he isn't opposed to reaching across the aisle, and I can respect that.

[FlaSoxxJim]

The only reason you said that is because she is a female. Dan Quayle came right out of the same cut. It has happened before. There are plenty of other reasons possible for her pick. I believe it is sexist to assume she was ONLY picked because she is a female.

 

OK, then I am being sexist, and so are a dozen women I work with or socialize with who all believe the extra X chromosome is the reason Palin is on the ticket. I apologize on behalf of all of us.

 

For the record, I never once suggested she'd be unfit for the job because she has 5 kids. There are scores of other reasons, some of which have been discussed here and elsewhere on the site.

 

 

[HuskyCaucasian]

This leaves me an obvious route to undermine your attack...simply find a prominent figure on the right that is attacking Governor Palin for those reasons.

And This From Michael Savage:

McCain did not want Sarah Palin as his vice-presidential pick. He wanted Joe Lieberman. And as insane as it sounds, even Joe Lieberman would have been a better choice than Sarah Palin. He would have been stronger on national defense. He would have been stronger on fighting Islamofascism. And for all his far-left views, he taught his daughter well enough so that she didn’t get pregnant as a teenager. But the Republican puppet masters gave Sarah Palin the nod instead. They thought women were generic. But Sarah is not Hillary to the millions of Clinton loyalists.

 

For the record, that is outright mean, wrong, and WAY out of line by any standard.

[whitesoxfan101]

2 points to make in reply. If it's a bad thing for the Dems to supposedly cower behind every criticism of Obama as a racial attack, then is it equally bad for the other side to cower behind every criticism of Sarah Palin as an attack on women?

 

Secondly, you make that statement quite readily blaming the left for the family-based criticism of Governor Palin. This leaves me an obvious route to undermine your attack...simply find a prominent figure on the right that is attacking Governor Palin for those reasons.

Now, frankly, I disagree with those sentiments. But they're posted now...because you want to pretend that all these anti-feminist attacks against her are coming from those evil liberals, and you're simply wrong. I'm sure there are some going after her for those reasons, but you're trying to pretend that one of the major problems the right wing folks might have with her is coming entirely from my side, and that's just incorrect.

 

#1. Yes, it is very bad in both cases. I personally don't think much of the attack on Palin has been gender related though, to be honest, just as most attacks on Obama aren't race related IMO, but some are. Leading me to:

 

#2. I'm not surprised by the link. I'm also not surprised that there would be somebody on the right making these claims and asking these questions about Governor Palin, as there are people on both sides of the aisle with flawed logic. Just as I would guess there are people with silly family-based criticisms of Palin on the right, there are people with silly race-based criticisms of Obama on the left (although everybody, regardless of political party, tries to hide these criticisms more, as hidden racism is a real popular thing in America these days).

 

The point is, the vast majority of the silly family criticism of Palin comes from the left, and the vast majority of the dumb race based criticism of Obama comes from the right (even though it's more veiled than the former). Now obviously the race based criticism is more blatently stupid and wrong, but neither makes much sense to me. And for ANYBODY on the left to ask if Palin can raise a family and be VP is absolute madness, considering how much they claim to look out for women, as well as how much they would JUMP on the right if the situation was reversed and they were asking these questions.

Edited September 3, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[Balta1701]

The point is, the vast majority of the silly family criticism of Palin comes from the left, and the vast majority of the dumb race based criticism of Obama comes from the right (even though it's more veiled than the former).

Ok, now you've set yourself up, I'm going to ask you to prove it. Who exactly is it on the left who is making a claim like the one Dr. Laura made that I highlighted there? Who has claimed that because of her family issues she won't have the time to govern or that she has more important things to do or anything like that?

[HuskyCaucasian]

McCain's National Co-Chair: Media Coverage Of Palin Is "Completely Fair," Not Sexist

 

Meg Whitman, McCain's national campaign co-chair and former CEO of e-Bay, veered off message today in an interview with Fox News, describing the media vetting of Palin as "completely fair" and saying that there hasn't really been any sexism to speak of in the coverage.

 

"I actually think it's completely fair for the media to vet Sarah Palin," Whitman said, adding that it was "the right thing to do" for the media to dig into the background of someone who is "running for the highest office in the land."

 

Asked directly whether there had been any media sexism, she replied: "I wouldn't say there really has."

 

Someone should tell this to McCain senior adviser Steve Schmidt, who actually complained today that the press was "on a mission to destroy" Palin.

[whitesoxfan101]

And This From Michael Savage:

 

 

For the record, that is outright mean, wrong, and WAY out of line by any standard.

 

Michael Savage is an idiot, so I don't count what he said. Although to be fair, in retrospect, it was the daily kos who started the rumors that Palin's disabled son was actually Bristol's, so I should have just ignored that too because the people there are idiots.

[bmags]

I don't know enough about his record in the Illinois senate to comment on it, but "bi-partisan" and Obama will never be confused with his record in the U.S. senate.

 

that's why I posted my link.

[whitesoxfan101]

McCain's National Co-Chair: Media Coverage Of Palin Is "Completely Fair," Not Sexist

 

I have no problem with the vetting the media has done of Governor Palin on the issues, because there is a lot there to look at and I'm not sure the McCain camp even looked at all of it. It's when you get into the area where some people are asking if Palin can raise a family and be VP that I find the comments a bit over the top, although hell, apparently such ignorance is coming from both sides.

[Balta1701]

I have no problem with the vetting the media has done of Governor Palin on the issues, because there is a lot there to look at and I'm not sure the McCain camp even looked at all of it. It's when you get into the area where some people are asking if Palin can raise a family and be VP that I find the comments a bit over the top, although hell, apparently such ignorance is coming from both sides.

Aside from commenters @ DailyKos (You get them and I get the right wing commentors and those are usually quite a bit more fun)....I'll ask again, who on the left has said that?

[HuskyCaucasian]

Michael Savage is an idiot, so I don't count what he said. Although to be fair, in retrospect, it was the daily kos who started the rumors that Palin's disabled son was actually Bristol's, so I should have just ignored that too because the people there are idiots.

Agreed on both points. I am just buttressing that it isnt the crazy left that is attacking Palin.

 

As you said, both are idiots. Kos has some interesting stuff when citizen journalists tie things together to break a story, but too often it's random conspiracy garbage.

Edited September 3, 2008 by Athomeboy_2000

[Soxbadger]

What really has anyone accomplished?

 

If I was to use the word "accomplish" I would say that they are things like, graduating college, graduating law school, passing the bar, being elected to a state office, being elected to a federal office, writing a book, being selected nominated as a Presidential candidate.

 

I guess at the end of the day no one is "clearly fit" to run this country.

 

I personally think that Obama has accomplished a lot compared to where he started from.

 

I dont really think you can quantify leadership, nor do I think there is any set of rules on how to become a good leader. People are born leaders, or they are not. Obama and McCain both can lead in their own way, so I think all of this nonsense about leadership is overblown.

 

The real question is what direction is the leader going to take us.

 

I myself am very liberally social (even though I am some what fiscally conservative) so I really have no choice in this election.