Blue Jays @ White Sox 7:11 9/11 CSN+

[santo=dorf]

Ok, so who? Who could we have traded for? Who was available? Who did Kenny not get that he could have?

This question sucks so much as it is always asked and follows this route:

 

fathom proposes a trade

Response is: A. "How do you know he could've done that? What's your source?" or "Well that's all hindsight 20/20."

 

I'll say this; The Sox were looking to move Cabrera and acquire Brian Roberts at the deadline. With the exception of DLS, those would've been a nice couple of pieces to POSSIBLY use.

[fathom]

You can't assume something with absolutely no evidence to support it, and expect to ever be correct, much less have anyone agree with you. What if teams knew we had a thin minor-league system, just missed out on Torii Hunter, and that we needed an outfielder? They'd be asking for the moon, and rightfully so.

 

Well, Santo agrees with me, and he's one of the most knowledgeable posters on here.

[almagest]

Those prospects could've netted a better return. Being slightly better than dog s*** (Erstad) is nothing to puff your chest at let alone the price we paid to get him.

 

Konerko: .244/.354/.416 .260 BABIP 461 PA's

Swisher: .225/.339/.427 .252 BABIP 553 PA's

 

I think that's pretty similar

I knew you'd go there. Check this out -- specifically, 3E8s posts. Here's the first one in case you can't see it:

 

There has to be some variation/error in batted-ball data due to scorer opinion. And expected BABIP isn’t nearly as precise as expected W-L, but if you were to take the % difference between BABIP and expected BABIP for all players, the average of that sample would be close to 0. For expected BABIP to be over 30% higher than actual BABIP is rare with a half a seasons AB sample size (maybe 1-2% of all players.) We just happen to have two players that fall into that category, PK and Swisher.

[santo=dorf]

You can't assume something with absolutely no evidence to support it, and expect to ever be correct, much less have anyone agree with you. What if teams knew we had a thin minor-league system, just missed out on Torii Hunter, and that we needed an outfielder? They'd be asking for the moon, and rightfully so.

 

Also, back to OC, Garland's having a pretty mediocre season in a pitcher's ballpark with a good defense behind him. OC may be a jerk, but where would we be at SS with Crede hurt, Fields underperforming, and Uribe continually showing his inability to be an everyday player?

Well since you have the all the answers, why don't you tell us? The Giants were cornered for a third baseman yet all they offered us was Noah Lowry for Crede. Why not Jonathan Sanchez?

 

It doesn't matter what Garland is doing as we should only be concerned about the package we receive on our end. I'll turn the tables the other way. Do you think Boston is kicking themselves for giving up Hanley Ramirez?

[santo=dorf]

I knew you'd go there. Check this out -- specifically, 3E8s posts. Here's the first one in case you can't see it:

What is your point? That I found a match?

[almagest]

Well since you have the all the answers, why don't you tell us? The Giants were cornered for a third baseman yet all they offered us was Noah Lowry for Crede. Why not Jonathan Sanchez?

 

It doesn't matter what Garland is doing as we should only be concerned about the package we receive on our end. I'll turn the tables the other way. Do you think Boston is kicking themselves for giving up Hanley Ramirez?

Maybe because Crede just came off a major back surgery, and was hitting like .180 in Spring Training? Also maybe they knew patients receiving this surgery have a high chance of relapse a few years down the road? Maybe the Giants wanted to hang onto Sanchez more than Lowry, possibly because he's a year younger, has better stuff, and had better numbers in the minors?

 

I doubt the Red Sox are kicking themselves over giving up Ramirez, given how good Beckett has been. But you can't tell me they wouldn't want to have him there, either, especially with how god awful Lugo has been, and how tough it's been to fill the SS position overall since Cabrera left. Also Hanley Ramirez struggled a little in his last MiLB season with the Red Sox, and at the time I remember his prospect status slipping a bit.

[almagest]

What is your point? That I found a match?

No, my point was that you specifically mentioned a case that was already discussed somewhere else, by someone from this website, who posted a stat showing that a player having an expected BABIP over 30% higher than his actual BABIP for a season is very rare. We're just unlucky and have two of them.

[almagest]

This question sucks so much as it is always asked and follows this route:

 

fathom proposes a trade

Response is: A. "How do you know he could've done that? What's your source?" or "Well that's all hindsight 20/20."

Uh, maybe because it's a valid criticism, and he has yet to respond to it?

[jenksycat]

didn't know we had so many GM's in here. Pretty cool forum.

[fathom]

Uh, maybe because it's a valid criticism, and he has yet to respond to it?

 

Because it's a question that has no exact answer. If you think that OC was the only player we could have gotten for Garland, and that there were no other players available to get for our 3 minor league package, then there's no point in even discussing the situation.

Edited September 12, 2008 by fathom

[almagest]

Because it's a question that has no exact answer. If you think that OC was the only player we could have gotten for Garland, and that there were no other players available to get for our 3 minor league package, then there's no point in even discussing the situation.

And if you think there were obvious better options for each player than what we got, yet are continually unable to mention even one possibility, or provide any references that would indicate this was the case, then I agree -- there's no point in even discussing the situation.

[jenksycat]

Because it's a question that has no exact answer. If you think that OC was the only player we could have gotten for Garland, and that there were no other players available to get for our 3 minor league package, then there's no point in even discussing the situation.

 

Unless you work in the Sox front office, or the FO of any baseball team, you don't know s*** either. No point.

[greg775]

I don't want Logan gone. He's a perfect compliment to Thornton. I like your list so far though.

 

Whatever happened to the days teams could find set up men as reliable as closers?? Our relievers not named Jenks are so inconsistent it's sickening. Remember the guy that used to be our reliable set up man? I have no idea why I'm forgetting his name except I'm so mad we lost 3 of 4. We haven't had s*** in the pen in terms of reliability except for Jenks since he got hurt a couple years ago.

[SoxFanForever]

Whatever happened to the days teams could find set up men as reliable as closers?? Our relievers not named Jenks are so inconsistent it's sickening. Remember the guy that used to be our reliable set up man? I have no idea why I'm forgetting his name except I'm so mad we lost 3 of 4. We haven't had s*** in the pen in terms of reliability except for Jenks since he got hurt a couple years ago.

Linebrink?