Blue Jays @ White Sox 7:11 9/11 CSN+

[fathom]

Oh come on.

 

Jose Canseco... and second place is NOT even close.

 

What was wrong with Jose? I had no problem with his antics when he was on the Sox. From everything we've heard, he was a perfect teammate.

[almagest]

God these game threads are awful. Just awful. It's funny because Soxtalk members post goofy gamethreads from other teams, poke fun at them, then promptly turn around and do the exact same things.

 

Also Nick Swisher is so terrible that he's still managed to put up roughly league-average numbers while enduring perhaps the worst season in his career. He's also got an absurdly low BABIP -- you know, the stat he has no control over and basically amounts to luck.

 

Anyways, tough loss, especially since Gavin pitched so well. The bullpen really let us down. Let's get back to winning against the Tigers.

[fathom]

He will get his contract, even if he doesn't get another hit the rest of the season. It will be a very large one too...............think Dodgers!

 

That would be perfect...a nice 1st rounder for the Sox.

[santo=dorf]

Last year I kept track of the players I wanted to get rid of in the offseason, and I had about 9 of 13 meet my wish.

 

For next season I'm thinking Cabrera, Wasserman, Logan, Crede, Wise, Owens, Griffey, Hall, and maybe Swisher if we could get something of fair value. Of course I hoped and said the same thing about Garland, and look what that netted us.

[SoxFanForever]

God these game threads are awful. Just awful. It's funny because Soxtalk members post goofy gamethreads from other teams, poke fun at them, then promptly turn around and do the exact same things.

 

Also Nick Swisher is so terrible that he's still managed to put up roughly league-average numbers while enduring perhaps the worst season in his career. He's also got an absurdly low BABIP -- you know, the stat he has no control over and basically amounts to luck.

 

Anyways, tough loss, especially since Gavin pitched so well. The bullpen really let us down. Let's get back to winning against the Tigers.

For a guy with a supposed good eye and plate discipline you would think he would be able to avoid swinging at ball 4 about a foot and a half out of the zone, yes? I don't think we are being too demanding.

[fathom]

God these game threads are awful. Just awful. It's funny because Soxtalk members post goofy gamethreads from other teams, poke fun at them, then promptly turn around and do the exact same things.

 

Also Nick Swisher is so terrible that he's still managed to put up roughly league-average numbers while enduring perhaps the worst season in his career. He's also got an absurdly low BABIP -- you know, the stat he has no control over and basically amounts to luck.

 

Anyways, tough loss, especially since Gavin pitched so well. The bullpen really let us down. Let's get back to winning against the Tigers.

 

Swisher doesn't make good contact very often. He's not exactly a line drive hitter. From the left side, which is supposed to be his strong side, he looks like he's swinging an invisible bat. I thought it was telling that 19 of his 24 homers have come at the Cell.

[santo=dorf]

Also Nick Swisher is so terrible that he's still managed to put up roughly league-average numbers while enduring perhaps the worst season in his career. He's also got an absurdly low BABIP -- you know, the stat he has no control over and basically amounts to luck.

Oh so the Sox were trading their three top prospect for roughly league average offensive and below average defense. I never buy the BABIP argument as an excuse for a guy having a bad season because his strikeout total is so high. If two guys have the same line and same BABIP, you can't tell me they've been equally as "unlucky" at the plate.

 

Swisher is completely lost up there.

[southsideirish71]

That would be perfect...a nice 1st rounder for the Sox.

 

His latest elias ratings puts him well in the A range. We are getting a first rounder and a sandwich pick for him then.

 

 

 

[fathom]

Last year I kept track of the players I wanted to get rid of in the offseason, and I had about 9 of 13 meet my wish.

 

For next season I'm thinking Cabrera, Wasserman, Logan, Crede, Wise, Owens, Griffey, Hall, and maybe Swisher if we could get something of fair value. Of course I hoped and said the same thing about Garland, and look what that netted us.

 

I don't want Logan gone. He's a perfect compliment to Thornton. I like your list so far though.

[fathom]

His latest elias ratings puts him well in the A range. We are getting a first rounder and a sandwich pick for him then.

 

Yes, but if a team like the Giants sign him, then the pick would be a sandwich pick that could be 15-20 spots lower.

[almagest]

For a guy with a supposed good eye and plate discipline you would think he would be able to avoid swinging at ball 4 about a foot and a half out of the zone, yes? I don't think we are being too demanding.

You mean the changeup diving out of the zone after nothing but fastballs, with an ump continually calling low pitches strikes? Also hitters that see lots of pitches and take lots of walks usually strike out a fair amount, too. Not excusing Swisher for striking out, but the hyperbole and overreactions here are disgusting sometimes.

 

And to the people harping about BJ Ryan "sucking": 3.06 ERA this year, 3.26 lifetime. ERA+ 140 this year, 137 lifetime. 28 saves this year. 27 BB/53 K this year, 246 BB / 607 K lifetime. WHIP 1.34 this year, 1.264 lifetime. What about those numbers over 10 seasons indicates "suck" to you? Because he looks easy to hit on TV? Okay, armchair QBs. Whatever you say.

[fathom]

You mean the changeup diving out of the zone after nothing but fastballs, with an ump continually calling low pitches strikes? Also hitters that see lots of pitches and take lots of walks usually strike out a fair amount, too. Not excusing Swisher for striking out, but the hyperbole and overreactions here are disgusting sometimes.

 

And to the people harping about BJ Ryan "sucking": 3.06 ERA this year, 3.26 lifetime. ERA+ 140 this year, 137 lifetime. 28 saves this year. 27 BB/53 K this year, 246 BB / 607 K lifetime. WHIP 1.34 this year, 1.264 lifetime. What about those numbers over 10 seasons indicates "suck" to you? Because he looks easy to hit on TV? Okay, armchair QBs. Whatever you say.

 

That pitch wasn't even close by Ryan. Swisher had seen a few offspeed pitches from him in that AB. Of course, the White Sox are the only team who seem surprised not to get a fastball on every full count.

[SoxFanForever]

You mean the changeup diving out of the zone after nothing but fastballs, with an ump continually calling low pitches strikes? Also hitters that see lots of pitches and take lots of walks usually strike out a fair amount, too. Not excusing Swisher for striking out, but the hyperbole and overreactions here are disgusting sometimes.

 

And to the people harping about BJ Ryan "sucking": 3.06 ERA this year, 3.26 lifetime. ERA+ 140 this year, 137 lifetime. 28 saves this year. 27 BB/53 K this year, 246 BB / 607 K lifetime. WHIP 1.34 this year, 1.264 lifetime. What about those numbers over 10 seasons indicates "suck" to you? Because he looks easy to hit on TV? Okay, armchair QBs. Whatever you say.

I don't think Ryan sucks. I just think he looked wild and pretty damn bad tonight. Also, after Swisher K'd on that pitch you would think OC would at least be paying slight attention to not swing at the same thing.

[almagest]

Oh so the Sox were trading their three top prospect for roughly league average offensive and below average defense. I never buy the BABIP argument as an excuse for a guy having a bad season because his strikeout total is so high. If two guys have the same line and same BABIP, you can't tell me they've been equally as "unlucky" at the plate.

 

Swisher is completely lost up there.

What have those prospects done? And what was the production from CF/LF/1B like last year? Even in a down year, Swisher is an upgrade over last year.

 

Show me someone with roughly as many PAs as Swish with a similar BABIP, AVG, OBP, and SLG. Heck -- even someone with a similar BABIP and one of the three other stats.

[southsideirish71]

You mean the changeup diving out of the zone after nothing but fastballs, with an ump continually calling low pitches strikes? Also hitters that see lots of pitches and take lots of walks usually strike out a fair amount, too. Not excusing Swisher for striking out, but the hyperbole and overreactions here are disgusting sometimes.

 

And to the people harping about BJ Ryan "sucking": 3.06 ERA this year, 3.26 lifetime. ERA+ 140 this year, 137 lifetime. 28 saves this year. 27 BB/53 K this year, 246 BB / 607 K lifetime. WHIP 1.34 this year, 1.264 lifetime. What about those numbers over 10 seasons indicates "suck" to you? Because he looks easy to hit on TV? Okay, armchair QBs. Whatever you say.

 

Swisher is hitting .225ish with a .340 OBP. Basically this year he is Brian Anderson with a higher OBP and worse defense in the OF.

 

 

 

 

[fathom]

What have those prospects done? And what was the production from CF/LF/1B like last year? Even in a down year, Swisher is an upgrade over last year.

 

Show me someone with roughly as many PAs as Swish with a similar BABIP, AVG, OBP, and SLG. Heck -- even someone with a similar BABIP and one of the three other stats.

 

It's not just how Swisher had been in relation to the guys he was traded for. It's the possible other packages out there we could have received instead of Swisher. Same with the Garland trade.

[fathom]

BTW, Aaron Cunningham would be a nice addition to this Sox roster right now.

[almagest]

That pitch wasn't even close by Ryan. Swisher had seen a few offspeed pitches from him in that AB. Of course, the White Sox are the only team who seem surprised not to get a fastball on every full count.

No, he didn't. All fastballs 84-88. A changeup in a 3-2 count with the tying run at the plate and less than two outs in the bottom of the ninth is not an expected pitch by any player, on any team. It was a bad AB by Swisher, true, but blaming him for swinging at a change is kind of silly.

[almagest]

It's not just how Swisher had been in relation to the guys he was traded for. It's the possible other packages out there we could have received instead of Swisher. Same with the Garland trade.

Ok, so who? Who could we have traded for? Who was available? Who did Kenny not get that he could have?

[scenario]

Swisher is hitting .225ish with a .340 OBP. Basically this year he is Brian Anderson with a higher OBP and worse defense in the OF.

 

True, Swish is sort of like Brian Anderson except....

 

- 70 points higher OBP...

 

- in his worst career year.

 

 

[fathom]

No, he didn't. All fastballs 84-88. A changeup in a 3-2 count with the tying run at the plate and less than two outs in the bottom of the ninth is not an expected pitch by any player, on any team. It was a bad AB by Swisher, true, but blaming him for swinging at a change is kind of silly.

 

He was way out in front of an offspeed pitch early in the AB.

[fathom]

Ok, so who? Who could we have traded for? Who was available? Who did Kenny not get that he could have?

 

Unless there's someone on this site that is in the front office, no one knows the answer to this. However, you'd have to be nuts to think that Sweeney/Gio/DLS wasn't an attractive package to teams.

[almagest]

Swisher is hitting .225ish with a .340 OBP. Basically this year he is Brian Anderson with a higher OBP and worse defense in the OF.

First, it's not fair to compare someone who's played all season with someone who's barely played at all. Second, as I briefly mentioned before, Swisher has a BABIP in the .240 range, with a line drive rate around 20%. Average BABIP hovers close to .300, and average line drive rate is around 18%. It's obvious he's having a bad season, and criticism is definitely warranted, but some of the comments made here are just silly.

[santo=dorf]

What have those prospects done? And what was the production from CF/LF/1B like last year? Even in a down year, Swisher is an upgrade over last year.

 

Show me someone with roughly as many PAs as Swish with a similar BABIP, AVG, OBP, and SLG. Heck -- even someone with a similar BABIP and one of the three other stats.

Those prospects could've netted a better return. Being slightly better than dog s*** (Erstad) is nothing to puff your chest at let alone the price we paid to get him.

 

Konerko: .244/.354/.416 .260 BABIP 461 PA's

Swisher: .225/.339/.427 .252 BABIP 553 PA's

 

I think that's pretty similar

[almagest]

Unless there's someone on this site that is in the front office, no one knows the answer to this. However, you'd have to be nuts to think that Sweeney/Gio/DLS wasn't an attractive package to teams.

You can't assume something with absolutely no evidence to support it, and expect to ever be correct, much less have anyone agree with you. What if teams knew we had a thin minor-league system, just missed out on Torii Hunter, and that we needed an outfielder? They'd be asking for the moon, and rightfully so.

 

Also, back to OC, Garland's having a pretty mediocre season in a pitcher's ballpark with a good defense behind him. OC may be a jerk, but where would we be at SS with Crede hurt, Fields underperforming, and Uribe continually showing his inability to be an everyday player?