WTF?? Initiation or Hazing?

[Texsox]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years...newmexico1.html

each of the younger athletes was pinned to the floor of a cabin and had a broomstick jammed over their shorts into their anus,

" A third victim recalled that after he was assaulted, he was patted on the back by an assailant and told, "Way to take it like a man."

 

Someone want to take a stab at explaining why football players think the sticking objects forcefully up someone's ass is a good thing? This exact smae thing happened down here a couple season's ago and the victim's were scourned by fans of the team because a couple star players were removed.

[WilliamTell]

it's probably both, because a lot of hazings are initiations. that's down right sick though.

[Texsox]

When I read the coach's quote I thought, I wish some kid said hey coach, show me how to take it like a man.

 

The adult involvement, albeit indirect, is sickening.

[StrangeSox]

Repressed homosexuality, anyone?

[Jake]

Frankly, I don't see the problem here.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Frankly, I don't see the problem here.

 

:o

 

Fatty Arbuckle sure could have used you on his jury.

Edited September 14, 2008 by FlaSoxxJim

[GoodAsGould]

I dont see why the kids let themselves get it taken up the ass. Im sorry but if i was part of a frat or football team or whatever.... I wouldnt let it happen.

[Jake]

:o

 

Fatty Arbuckle sure could have used you on his jury.

 

I didn't think the green was necessary.

[FlaSoxxJim]

I didn't think the green was necessary.

 

My mistake then. I was hard-pressed to fathom somebody not seeing this as inappropriate.

 

Then again, you see the stuff with some regularity, so I guess there are certain he-man Neanderthal high school football players who think shoving broomsticks up a teammate's a$$ is just good clean fun, second only to forced group sex with a cheerleader perhaps.

[StrangeSox]

I dont see why the kids let themselves get it taken up the ass. Im sorry but if i was part of a frat or football team or whatever.... I wouldnt let it happen.

 

You're talking about a whole bunch of guys vs. you. If they want that broomstick up your butt, its going there.

[knightni]

More like, Sexual Assault.

[Texsox]

And it's great training for the FFB. Future Fraternity Bros.

 

/hey Rock, sorry dude, I couldn't resist cracking that joke.

[Jake]

My mistake then. I was hard-pressed to fathom somebody not seeing this as inappropriate.

 

Then again, you see the stuff with some regularity, so I guess there are certain he-man Neanderthal high school football players who think shoving broomsticks up a teammate's a$$ is just good clean fun, second only to forced group sex with a cheerleader perhaps.

 

I secretly hoped someone would go nutso. So how do we feel about voluntary broomstick sodemny and voluntary group sex with cheerleaders?

[Rex Kickass]

I secretly hoped someone would go nutso. So how do we feel about voluntary broomstick sodemny and voluntary group sex with cheerleaders?

I think that both activities are relatively dangerous and stupid for everyone involved.

[GoodAsGould]

You're talking about a whole bunch of guys vs. you. If they want that broomstick up your butt, its going there.

 

Depends, especially in a sorority or whatever you can always leave. It might be a little harder in a sports team to avoid it but usually easy enough to get to an adult or whatever unless your in an enclosed room.

[NorthSideSox72]

And it's great training for the FFB. Future Fraternity Bros.

 

/hey Rock, sorry dude, I couldn't resist cracking that joke.

For the record, Rock isn't the only former fraternity member on the board.

 

[Texsox]

For the record, Rock isn't the only former fraternity member on the board.

 

I know, but Rock and I have had a couple exchanges about this. And for the record, I am a fan of the system, I just am waiting for the pendulum to swing further towards the Mission statements as written, instead of the mission statement as interpreted by too many fraternity brothers. The next time I hear a Fraternity member brag about the community service they did, (instead of buying their way out with a donation) or how it helped with their grades, will be the first. The next time I hear about a great party, how they got totally wasted, or "did" some chick at a party, will be too many to count.

 

And former member? Shame on you. Fraternities are forever

[DABearSoX]

Repressed homosexuality, anyone?

 

honestly

[bmags]

I know, but Rock and I have had a couple exchanges about this. And for the record, I am a fan of the system, I just am waiting for the pendulum to swing further towards the Mission statements as written, instead of the mission statement as interpreted by too many fraternity brothers. The next time I hear a Fraternity member brag about the community service they did, (instead of buying their way out with a donation) or how it helped with their grades, will be the first. The next time I hear about a great party, how they got totally wasted, or "did" some chick at a party, will be too many to count.

 

And former member? Shame on you. Fraternities are forever

 

Its just flawed logic. Are the bolded statements a product of them being in a fraternity or being young in college? Do you remember these statements more because it reaffirms your shallow generalizations of fraternity members as opposed to just a college kid saying it? My guess is probably. Because in the arguments that have happened in this board over this subject, you have had many fraternity members here talk about their community service and grades, so there is no way it would be a first. I'm in a fraternity and am young and in college. I put in many hours of community service that go far beyond any "required" hours we have, and many of my brothers are right there with me. I have great grades. I'm politically active. I'm active in the community. The community knows the potential the greek system has here and actively comes to us for help, which is then obliged by ours. But this doesn't mean I don't get to have the same social exploration of any other college student just because it would feed into your shallow stereotype.

[Rex Kickass]

I was in a Fraternity.

[bmags]

you aren't helping our case Rex

[southsider2k5]

I was in a Fraternity.

 

AND LOOK HOW YOU TURNED OUT! A DEMOCRAT FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!

[Texsox]

Its just flawed logic. Are the bolded statements a product of them being in a fraternity or being young in college? Do you remember these statements more because it reaffirms your shallow generalizations of fraternity members as opposed to just a college kid saying it? My guess is probably. Because in the arguments that have happened in this board over this subject, you have had many fraternity members here talk about their community service and grades, so there is no way it would be a first. I'm in a fraternity and am young and in college. I put in many hours of community service that go far beyond any "required" hours we have, and many of my brothers are right there with me. I have great grades. I'm politically active. I'm active in the community. The community knows the potential the greek system has here and actively comes to us for help, which is then obliged by ours. But this doesn't mean I don't get to have the same social exploration of any other college student just because it would feed into your shallow stereotype.

 

Both. But from what I've seen and heard, the fraternity system encourages and in some cases required "exploration" beyond responsible levels. Forced consumption of alcohol for example. I don't believe we need to examine news stories of hazing? That sort of ritualized behavior goes beyond what would occur for non Greek students. The excesses of the past, which has led to deaths and University policies and laws against these behaviors are in part because members did not acknowledge any problems in the 70s, and 80s. As the behaviors continued to escalate, Fraternities and to a lesser extend Sororities, were given a huge black eye.

 

I have spent time on three University campuses with both large and small Greek Societies, and perhaps on your campus fraternity members brag about the people they helped, but I've heard a lot more party tales.

 

No doubt there is a larger social value in Greek Society. Both inward and outward for the members. As I posted before, the pendulum is swinging, as witnessed by what you wrote, and that is a good sign for everyone.

[bmags]

Both. But from what I've seen and heard, the fraternity system encourages and in some cases required "exploration" beyond responsible levels. Forced consumption of alcohol for example. I don't believe we need to examine news stories of hazing? That sort of ritualized behavior goes beyond what would occur for non Greek students. The excesses of the past, which has led to deaths and University policies and laws against these behaviors are in part because members did not acknowledge any problems in the 70s, and 80s. As the behaviors continued to escalate, Fraternities and to a lesser extend Sororities, were given a huge black eye.

 

I have spent time on three University campuses with both large and small Greek Societies, and perhaps on your campus fraternity members brag about the people they helped, but I've heard a lot more party tales.

 

No doubt there is a larger social value in Greek Society. Both inward and outward for the members. As I posted before, the pendulum is swinging, as witnessed by what you wrote, and that is a good sign for everyone.

 

But you can attribute these things to the societal expectations of college in general. In a small area, you are packing in tens of thousands of 18-22 year old students with little responsibilities and hormones raging. Go to a football game tailgate and pick out the responsible ones.

 

And if you are asking people to brag about their community service, I think you'd be finding someone that does it for the wrong reasons. I certainly don't brag about my community service, funny anecdotes that happen I'll tell my family and friends, but I don't wear it as a badge of honor. I see it as a chance to use my privilege in productive ways, as do most around me.

 

I think college students getting together and exchanging drinking stories just is what we do. We go to boring classes, and a lot of college students to explore themselves socially and blow off steam go out to the bars and meet people and act irresponsibly. I've had very funny stories happen to me at the bars. I think you have to, if I remember the fight thread. I don't think these stories should be defining outlooks on a persons character, any more than an obscene joke a remark on a persons moral code.

 

In essence, I see you take pot shots at fraternities too much. The system has it's problems, but moreso due to corrupt people than a corrupt program. The greek system might have in fact put some positive influences in an otherwise unruly person, where without he would have been the same without these influences.

 

For instance, I know many eagle scouts. Some of them are in jail right now. But the one whom I grew up with and has me in awe of the program is the one who in his junior year of college with a good job that was going to get him salary-position as soon as he graduated, promptly joined the marines because he felt a sense of duty of service. That's a testament to the people and lessons he met as an eagle scout.

 

So perhaps those of us that are making a positive affect on the community around us, the many many thousands of us, through our fraternities and sororities could start sticking in your mind more than the tales of immaturity that you've used to condemn the system.

[DrunkBomber]

I was in a fraternity and played football. As far as football goes, I cant say Ive even heard of anything like this. Its hard to fathom ANYONE sitting there and taking this without a fight. Its rape for gods sakes. As far as the fraternities, I can see how someone who wasnt in one would jump to the stereotypical conclusions but I also dont think they understand the whole spectrum of whats involved. Its not just parties and half ass community service. Its basically running a business, managing people, governing yourselves, learning to cope with different kinds of people etc. Im not the type to claim I made the life long bonds from it, but it was an experience in my life I would never give back or trade anything for.