Revisited: Thornton as closer 09

[Princess Dye]

I got sliced and diced for having this position earlier in the week.

 

Point blank though: he has the best K arm in the pen. He isnt considerably worse vs. righties.

 

 

 

If we can get LHP for the pen (Poreda)... then do you consider him for closing games? Have to come to grips w/ the fact that Jenks isnt a strikeout pitcher anymore, and that we will have to start paying him more and more now. His ERA and saves dependability will give him serious value elsewhere.

 

 

 

Trading Jenks is a shot at retooling...get players that can get OBP up which is our weak area. Bullpen needs work, but you guys know how it is. We didnt expect a lockdown bullpen in 05... you just try to get a right mix of arms and hope for the best. We'll do the same this offseason with or without Jenks.

[elrockinMT]

Thornton and Jenks in the pen and it makes you wonder if we need another rebuild for the rest of it. Dotel has given up 11 or 12 homers in 50 some innings even though he K's a super number of hitters. Carrasco is up and down.

[Princess Dye]

Thornton and Jenks in the pen and it makes you wonder if we need another rebuild for the rest of it. Dotel has given up 11 or 12 homers in 50 some innings even though he K's a super number of hitters. Carrasco is up and down.

 

They mightve seen enough from Clayton to see if they can convert him to the pen. It also would be interesting to see what happens with a fresh-arm Jose Contreras probably coming in midyear. If they have a solid 5 guys maybe they'd try to see him in the pen again.

 

With all the money invested in Linebrink and Dotel, I'm sure they enter next year with huge roles, whether we like it or not. I wish Liney could miss half a year for non-arm issues b/c he seems to tire midyear. Lets get 'im

Edited September 15, 2008 by Princess Dye

[Whitewashed in '05]

I got sliced and diced for having this position earlier in the week.

 

Point blank though: he has the best K arm in the pen. He isnt considerably worse vs. righties.

 

 

 

If we can get LHP for the pen (Poreda)... then do you consider him for closing games? Have to come to grips w/ the fact that Jenks isnt a strikeout pitcher anymore, and that we will have to start paying him more and more now. His ERA and saves dependability will give him serious value elsewhere.

 

 

 

Trading Jenks is a shot at retooling...get players that can get OBP up which is our weak area. Bullpen needs work, but you guys know how it is. We didnt expect a lockdown bullpen in 05... you just try to get a right mix of arms and hope for the best. We'll do the same this offseason with or without Jenks.

 

So trade Jenks and make "1 pitch pitcher" Thornton the closer?

 

For the past couple of games Jenks has given up runs he hadn't pitched in 4 days.

 

How does this improve our bullpen?

 

Also, isn't Contreras going to start baseball activities mid next year? If that's the case, he won't be ready until about August at the earliest.

Edited September 15, 2008 by Whitewashed in '05

[SoxFan562004]

I may be a little off on this because I've been busy lately and haven't followed the games as closely as I like, but I still have a ton of faith in Jenks. Last two times he's been in to my knowledge he gave up runs, but they weren't save situations. I know it's not a great excuse, but when he starts blowing save situations and actually giving up leads, I'll worry

[Princess Dye]

It's not so much that I think Jenks is awful now - i think it's more like his value is at its highest and that...if other past ML parallels hold, he probably wont find that old strikeout rate again. It could happen, but if there was a good deal coming along, I would opt for that over paying him higher and higher salaries in the future.

Edited September 15, 2008 by Princess Dye

[greg775]

Thornton and Bobby are the only ones who are reliable and Thornton still is wild sometimes isn't he?

[WilliamTell]

Thornton is too hot and cold for my liking. He has some control issues at times. It'd almost be like having Billy Koch save for us, just not as bad.

[Princess Dye]

Thornton is too hot and cold for my liking. He has some control issues at times. It'd almost be like having Billy Koch save for us, just not as bad.

 

Nothing on earth is like having Billy Koch save for us.

[nitetrain8601]

I wish Jenks was given free reign to just throw 100mph and forget this control issue BS. He was much better and dominant when he was able to throw as hard as he can.

[jenksycat]

what has happened most of the time when thorton is in a high pressure situation?

 

And Jenks was better when throwing 100mph? Really? Cause I remember him throwing the equivalent of 1.5 perfect games throwing 95.

[nitetrain8601]

what has happened most of the time when thorton is in a high pressure situation?

 

And Jenks was better when throwing 100mph? Really? Cause I remember him throwing the equivalent of 1.5 perfect games throwing 95.

 

And outside of that very nice span, he also let a ton of runners on base.

[GoodAsGould]

Why would we not go as Jenks? I do think with our bullpen has the chance to be even better next season. What with a healthy Linebrick, Clayton Richard in place of Logan, and a season of Carrasco over Masset. Also assuming healthy I think Dotel could be more effective, he seemingly has been overused this season especially since Linebrick going down.

[joeynach]

I got sliced and diced for having this position earlier in the week.

 

Point blank though: he has the best K arm in the pen. He isnt considerably worse vs. righties.

 

 

 

If we can get LHP for the pen (Poreda)... then do you consider him for closing games? Have to come to grips w/ the fact that Jenks isnt a strikeout pitcher anymore, and that we will have to start paying him more and more now. His ERA and saves dependability will give him serious value elsewhere.

 

 

 

Trading Jenks is a shot at retooling...get players that can get OBP up which is our weak area. Bullpen needs work, but you guys know how it is. We didnt expect a lockdown bullpen in 05... you just try to get a right mix of arms and hope for the best. We'll do the same this offseason with or without Jenks.

 

I dont care how u get outs or close games just win the games. Jenks has good stuff overall with a multidue of pitches, thornton does not. Jenks gets out thats good enough for me to be a closer. Yeah he doesnt have the 9K/IP ratio but he gets SAVES.

[fathom]

Not for one second do I believe that Jenks can still throw 100 mph if he wanted.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

Bringing Jenks in with anything less than a 3 run lead makes me nervous. I keep hearing how he's a/the bright spot of the bullpen but I wouldn't say he's anything special- maybe in the past but certainly not this year. The saves he does earn seem to be more of the leadoff single/walk that eventually ends up at third variety than the filth he has shown in past years.

[jenksycat]

I dont care how u get outs or close games just win the games. Jenks has good stuff overall with a multidue of pitches, thornton does not. Jenks gets out thats good enough for me to be a closer. Yeah he doesnt have the 9K/IP ratio but he gets SAVES.

 

Exactly. I honestly can't remember Thorndog coming in a huge pressure situation and not blowing it.

 

Now if he learned a changeup, and quit refusing to throw his 95mph fastaball, then maybe I could see it. But I'm happy with a Thorton/Liney(healthy)/Jenks

[RockRaines]

Short answer: No

[TCQ]

If we could get anything good for jenks we should jump at it. Closers are the most overrated players in dare i say all of sports. It proves the point that someone like jj putz or byung yung kim can have big save seasons. Any major league pitcher should be able to get three outs. If we got rid of jenks someone on this team could do it, maybe thornton. This is why this krod for mvp thing drives me nuts. He has gotten way more opportunities to get these saves, and how hard is it really to get three outs in a lot of those games which they were up by three or two runs?

[Kyyle23]

If we could get anything good for jenks we should jump at it. Closers are the most overrated players in dare i say all of sports. It proves the point that someone like jj putz or byung yung kim can have big save seasons. Any major league pitcher should be able to get three outs. If we got rid of jenks someone on this team could do it, maybe thornton. This is why this krod for mvp thing drives me nuts. He has gotten way more opportunities to get these saves, and how hard is it really to get three outs in a lot of those games which they were up by three or two runs?

 

 

If it was easy then everyone would have a lockdown closer

[southsider2k5]

If we could get anything good for jenks we should jump at it. Closers are the most overrated players in dare i say all of sports. It proves the point that someone like jj putz or byung yung kim can have big save seasons. Any major league pitcher should be able to get three outs. If we got rid of jenks someone on this team could do it, maybe thornton. This is why this krod for mvp thing drives me nuts. He has gotten way more opportunities to get these saves, and how hard is it really to get three outs in a lot of those games which they were up by three or two runs?

 

Ask Detroit and Cleveland that...

[Harry Chappas]

Ask Detroit and Cleveland that...

 

ask the Mets, Philles, Brewers and Cardinals as well.

 

[DBAHO]

ask the Mets, Philles, Brewers and Cardinals as well.

Yeah the media over here are begging the Mets to go after K-Rod even although they still have to pay Wagner next season.

 

Luis Ayala really isn't helping matters much on that front.

[Felix]

Closer are incredibly overrated. How many other players are glorified for their ability to get three outs without letting up three runs? (and before you say it, no, not every save has a three run lead)

 

The point is that you want your best reliever coming in when the game is in question. Whether that's in the 9th inning when you're up one or whether its in the seventh inning up one with two on and one out, you want your best guy out there. What's the point in saving his arm for the 9th if you aren't going to make it there in the first place?

Edited September 15, 2008 by Felix

[Harry Chappas]

Closer are incredibly overrated. How many other players are glorified for their ability to get three outs without letting up three runs? (and before you say it, no, not every save has a three run lead)

 

The point is that you want your best reliever coming in when the game is in question. Whether that's in the 9th inning when you're up one or whether its in the seventh inning up one with two on and one out, you want your best guy out there. What's the point in saving his arm for the 9th if you aren't going to make it there in the first place?

 

Less opportunity to come back especially in the bottom of the 9th. If you give up three in the top of the 7th you still have 9 outs to come back, not so if you are walked off. I also tend ot beleive that hitters are more focused in the 9th if down by a run or two.

Edited September 15, 2008 by Jenks Heat