Oney Guillen

[Jake]

You pretty much named the player right there...

 

 

edit: well one out of a possible 3 at least

 

I don't feel like thinking about it.

[ptatc]

He has logged time in the majors.

 

Sounds like sour grapes then. "They don't like me because I don't throw hard, otherwise I would be in the show."

 

[RockRaines]

For what it's worth, I talked with one of the Barons players off the clock and he said that the White Sox organization was "different" and didn't mean it in a good way. He knew he was better off with another organization he had been with. "The White Sox only like guys who throw hard, they don't care about ones who can pitch." Those are some loaded statements in my opinion. I cannot say who said that out of respect to the player. But, I appreciate his honesty. Another good guy in the system who will get screwed.

SOunds more like sour grapes than truth. The Sox spent the better part of the last few years drafting college "pitchers" instead of projectable power arms.

[fathom]

Honestly, I don't care much about Oney and if he was promoted for one game to a higher level. Hopefully he has a productive career in the Sox organization with personnel decisions. I think a lot of the anger in this thread has more to do with the pathetic draft pick that was Ken Williams Jr.

[bighurt4life]

Honestly, I don't care much about Oney and if he was promoted for one game to a higher level. Hopefully he has a productive career in the Sox organization with personnel decisions. I think a lot of the anger in this thread has more to do with the pathetic draft pick that was Ken Williams Jr.

 

Well put. To take that one step further I believe that it is the overall nepotism that has been seen in our drafting strategy. I don't necessarily believe that it has hurt our level of talent but it still sucks when everyone is not judged on an equal playing field.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Its nice to know you have no problem with one of the worst farm systems in baseball being a playground for relatives of others in the organization. So what he's a 36th round pick. Well, Buerhle was a 38th round pick. Good thing the White Sox didn't decide to draft JR's neighbor with 2 left feet instead that year, so maybe he could have a good time and be overmatched as a rookie. Oney, if his last name was Smith, would have at least been released after the 2007 season. If the guy's last name was anything but Guillen, he wouldn't have been drafted, and he wouldn't have received the opportunities he received, including playing one game in Charlotte. That is just wrong.

 

Buehrle was a draft and follow guy. Teams can't do that anymore. Had Buehrle been drafted in the 38th round of the 2008 first year player draft he would have had to go back to school and then re-enter the draft if he wanted any playing time. Or he could have joined up with an independent league somewhere.

 

Oney was brought in to fill a spot on the bench in the low minors. He wasn't brought in to play ahead of any actual prospects. The only reason people say anything is because of his last name. If the Sox had draft some guy named John Doe who sucked just as bad and stuck him at the end of the bench there wouldn't have even been a thread about it. And it's not like the Sox gave him some outrageous signing bonus either.

 

I fail to see how drafting a sucky minor league bench player unrelated to a member of the Sox organization instead of drafting a sucky minor league bench player who is related to a member of the Sox organization makes us a better, more successful organization.

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Well put. To take that one step further I believe that it is the overall nepotism that has been seen in our drafting strategy. I don't necessarily believe that it has hurt our level of talent but it still sucks when everyone is not judged on an equal playing field.

Did nepotism cause us to draft Brent Morel in the 3rd when Tim Melville was available, or did it have anything to do with us taking any of the 3rd-6th rounders ahead of Jordan Danks, who we easily could have lost out on completely? How come Upchurch wasn't taken until the 10th round or Kyle Long until the 23rd? I doubt the Sox think KW Jr. is a better prospect than any of those guys, so nepotism doesn't have anything to do with it. It's just the economics of the game. It's about teams "sending messages" to agents and picking guys they feel they can sign for the amount they plan on offering. It has nothing at all to do with nepotism, it just so happens that Kenny's staff thinks his son is a prospect and since it's family, he was considered an easy sign for the Sox and therefore taken when he was.

 

As far as KW Jr. as a prospect, I don't know much about him but I'd easily trade Kyle McCulloch along with a few packets of old Taco Bell fire sauce found underneath my passenger's seat straight up for Kenny Jr.

 

Here's an excerpt from an article addressing this topic:

 

"My dad did not want to draft me," Kenny Williams Jr. said. "Not based on talent, not based on how I played the game. He just didn't want me to go through his organization and go through that pressure."

 

Scouting director Doug Laumann and the White Sox scouts, however, disagreed. They believed themselves to be an adept organization at handling accusations of nepotism, given the man at the head of their player development department, Buddy Bell. The onetime Major League manager is the son of 1950s All-Star outfielder Gus Bell, as well as father to a pair of former Major Leaguers -- Mike and David.

[Dick Allen]

Buehrle was a draft and follow guy. Teams can't do that anymore. Had Buehrle been drafted in the 38th round of the 2008 first year player draft he would have had to go back to school and then re-enter the draft if he wanted any playing time. Or he could have joined up with an independent league somewhere.

 

Oney was brought in to fill a spot on the bench in the low minors. He wasn't brought in to play ahead of any actual prospects. The only reason people say anything is because of his last name. If the Sox had draft some guy named John Doe who sucked just as bad and stuck him at the end of the bench there wouldn't have even been a thread about it. And it's not like the Sox gave him some outrageous signing bonus either.

 

I fail to see how drafting a sucky minor league bench player unrelated to a member of the Sox organization instead of drafting a sucky minor league bench player who is related to a member of the Sox organization makes us a better, more successful organization.

He hit .122 as a 21 year old in Bristol with a ton of strikeouts and a ton of errors. It was obvious playing professional baseball wasn't his thing. How many 36th rounders with those same numbers don't get released? Yet he gets to screw around another season, albeit riding a lot of pine but still playing and gets a call up to Charlotte for one game. Maybe Charlotte just needed a guy for one game, but it wouldn't have been Oney if Guillen wasn't his last name. There have been plenty of players drafted in the 36th round and beyond who have been at least productive minor leaguers. Oney received opportunities based on his last name, and to me, that is wrong. I think he "retired" because he knew Buddy Bell wasn't going to go along with the game anymore and he would have finally been released. I suppose you would have no problem with Oney playing the lower levels until he was 40.

[NorthSideSox72]

He has logged time in the majors.

And he was at B-Ham this year?

 

This is the guy who we lost to OAK in the Rule 5, then re-signed when OAK dumped him, yes?

 

[southsider2k5]

I fail to see how drafting a sucky minor league bench player unrelated to a member of the Sox organization instead of drafting a sucky minor league bench player who is related to a member of the Sox organization makes us a better, more successful organization.

 

From the sounds of it, Lee Fischer was that guy this year.

[scenario]

And he was at B-Ham this year?

 

This is the guy who we lost to OAK in the Rule 5, then re-signed when OAK dumped him, yes?

 

There are 3 pitchers on the Birmingham roster with major league experience:

- Fernando Hernandez (23)

- Dewon Day (28 in about a week)

- Ryan O'Malley (28)

 

Day's problem is getting the ball over the plate on a consistent basis.

O'Malley can get the ball over the plate, but people pound the crap of him when he does.

I don't see either of those guys with the Sox for much longer.

 

Fernando still has time. He should be in Charlotte next year. And with our current bullpen situation, if he does well in Charlotte, he could very well get a shot with the big club.

 

 

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

He hit .122 as a 21 year old in Bristol with a ton of strikeouts and a ton of errors. It was obvious playing professional baseball wasn't his thing.

 

As is the case with most guys taken simply to fill out a bench in Rookie ball.

 

How many 36th rounders with those same numbers don't get released? Yet he gets to screw around another season, albeit riding a lot of pine but still playing and gets a call up to Charlotte for one game.

 

Isn't there a bit of Rob Valido hate on this board? And that guy was pretty highly touted for a while. Oney's lack of contributions mean nothing, and I don't see how Oney playing a game in Charlotte means anything at all. Charlotte is the place where the legend of Brett Prinz was made. There are always players in Charlotte that have no chance. They're only there to fill the teams so that the slim few who actually do have a chance can play and learn the game.

 

Maybe Charlotte just needed a guy for one game, but it wouldn't have been Oney if Guillen wasn't his last name.

 

And I'm sure there are plenty of spouses at company picnics who wouldn't be there if not for their last names. It's just as irrelevant. If there is any single player in our entire minor league system who feels slighted because he didn't get a couple meaningless at-bats at the end of the season in Triple-A, then that is a player I do not want in my favorite team's organization.

 

There have been plenty of players drafted in the 36th round and beyond who have been at least productive minor leaguers.

 

Again, MLB doesn't do the draft-and-follow thing anymore, and I'm willing to bet that many of the very late round picks were players who benefited from that system. Teams used to be able to take players in the very late rounds who have some outside chance of maybe being something someday and then, if the player proves himself worthy, that player can be offered a contract. There's no point in trying to find winning lottery tickets that late in the draft because those players hardly ever play anyway.

 

If a player is taken where Oney was and is in a situation that Oney was in - being that he knew he wouldn't get playing time - then the best course of action is either to go back to school and try to move up in a future draft like our top pick Gordon Beckham who wasn't even drafted at all, join an indy league like George Sherrill did, or show up at a try-out like Ehren Wassermann did. There is zero point in a player riding the bench like Oney and getting overlooked by a major league organization when he could instead improve his chances and gain notoriety elsewhere.

 

Oney received opportunities based on his last name, and to me, that is wrong.

 

Has a family member ever gotten you a job somewhere? Did anyone help you buy a car or a house? Drafting Oney is the same thing, except details of his life are open to the public because of his trade and are pointlessly scrutinized on message boards.

 

I think he "retired" because he knew Buddy Bell wasn't going to go along with the game anymore and he would have finally been released. I suppose you would have no problem with Oney playing the lower levels until he was 40.

 

Buddy Bell vouched for Oney. I'm sure Buddy doesn't care about all the bench-filling non-prospects in the system. His only concern is with the real prospects in the system, and I doubt he'd mind penciling Oney in as the last man on Great Falls' bench for the next ten years. If there was ever a prospect that deserved everyday playing time, then someone else would be promoted, moved over, or traded in order to accommodate that player. Minor league bench-only players do not cut into anyone else's playing time.

 

And, I really couldn't care less if Oney toiled until the age of 40 at the end of the bench in rookie ball. Someone's butt has to be there, why not his? It's not costing any extra money and it doesn't effect the farm system either positively or negatively.

[JPN366]

There are 3 pitchers on the Birmingham roster with major league experience:

- Fernando Hernandez (23)

- Dewon Day (28 in about a week)

- Ryan O'Malley (28)

 

Day's problem is getting the ball over the plate on a consistent basis.

O'Malley can get the ball over the plate, but people pound the crap of him when he does.

I don't see either of those guys with the Sox for much longer.

 

Fernando still has time. He should be in Charlotte next year. And with our current bullpen situation, if he does well in Charlotte, he could very well get a shot with the big club.

 

 

I can't say out of respect to that player and his honest feelings about the White Sox organization. I'll just say he really is a smart pitcher with a good arsenal who could pitch for a long time.