Josh Fields to have surgery at season's end.

[lostfan]

How come we draft more quarterbacks than the Bears do?

 

The sad thing is Borchard, Richards, and Fields would probably be better than what they have now...

Jerry Owens could probably establish himself among these WRs too.

[ptatc]

The sad thing is Borchard, Richards, and Fields would probably be better than what they have now...

 

don't forget Billy Joe Hobert whodid start for the Saints albeit not well.

[lostfan]

I don't know what effect his knee injury had on swinging and missing, something he did with even more regularity this year.

I dunno, a seemingly unrelated injury seemed to affect Jermaine Dye too.

[Dick Allen]

I dunno, a seemingly unrelated injury seemed to affect Jermaine Dye too.

It didn't affect his strikeout rate, and his walk rate didn't go down dramatically IIRC. Fields either needs to become a walk machine and increase his OBP significantly and try to be Adam Dunn Jr. offensively, or drop his K rate by a huge amount if he is to become much of a major leaguer IMO. 200 k's a year, hitting .240 with a pretty low OBP gets you the Greg Norton career in a hurry. He's already in Ozzie's doghouse for regressing defensively. Its a house that is very hard to exit.

[YASNY]

It didn't affect his strikeout rate, and his walk rate didn't go down dramatically IIRC. Fields either needs to become a walk machine and increase his OBP significantly and try to be Adam Dunn Jr. offensively, or drop his K rate by a huge amount if he is to become much of a major leaguer IMO. 200 k's a year, hitting .240 with a pretty low OBP gets you the Greg Norton career in a hurry. He's already in Ozzie's doghouse for regressing defensively. Its a house that is very hard to exit.

 

That defensive regression my very well be a result of that bad knee.

[oralsoxpodcast]

Josh Fields needs to be traded to the Texas Rangers. They like their young home run hitters down there. He strikes out too much and plays a lousy third. The current White Sox don't need another player that is slow, bad defensively, and only hits homeruns. Enough of that. Besides, Crede will still be here next year, along with Juan as his backup, IMHO.

[caulfield12]

Have I ever told you how smart you are? lol

 

Seriously though, I just think Beltre is the perfect choice for the Sox; there's no long-term committment, you should get compensation at the end of the season, he doesn't cost an arm and a leg monetarily (though he's not cheap by any stretch of the imagination either), he shouldn't cost an arm and a leg to trade for though he won't be stolen either, and he's a very underrated player - I don't think .270 30 .825 is seriously out of the question for him, and he plays fantastic defense at 3B too, which is incredibly important. As far as I'm aware, there are no serious injury concerns (though he is having surgery for a torn ligament on his hand...he wanted to play through it so it obviously wasn't effecting him a terrible amount).

 

Beltre just seems too perfect. I also don't want to look too far ahead either because there's still plenty of season left to be played.

 

 

The funny thing is this is decidedly the single biggest issue for the Twins in the upcoming offseason as well...and they have more room to negotiate, as they could package someone like Cuddyer and a minor league prospect. That still leaves them Span, Gomez, D. Young and Kubel for pretty excellent depth.

 

I doubt they would trade Perkins or Blackburn (that was the Washburn deal that was nixed ultimately by the Twins)...unless they were very confident someone like Bonser could bounce back into the rotation. They will try to avoid a repeat of the Livan Hernandez disaster this past off-season. If the Twins lose, not using Liriano until mid August might be one of the obvious things to point at as a reason for the Sox winning the division.

 

The Twins are also in the same spot we are, looking for RH relief help. The irony is that we have MacDougal, Dotel and Linebrink, but can any of them be counted on for next season???

 

The Twins have Guerrier, Crain and possibly Neshek coming back at full strength. I would say both clubs are in similar situations...we'll see how well Octavio and Scott do the next couple of weeks and possibly in the post-season.

[caulfield12]

Josh Fields needs to be traded to the Texas Rangers. They like their young home run hitters down there. He strikes out too much and plays a lousy third. The current White Sox don't need another player that is slow, bad defensively, and only hits homeruns. Enough of that. Besides, Crede will still be here next year, along with Juan as his backup, IMHO.

 

 

I think they have to part ways with Crede, for a number of reasons...it will be either Fields, Uribe or Beltre/Blalock.

[elrockinMT]

Who is going to trade for a guy that put up the numbers that he did this year AFTER he has knee surgery?

 

 

Should have put that in green but what I really think will happen is that we will see excuses being made for Fields and a clamor for him to be our 3baseman of the future again because he was hurt and now he is healed. There seems to be so much hate out there for the likes of Joe Crede, even PK and Thome, that it is sometimes very hard to understand.

Edited September 18, 2008 by elrockinMT

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I think they have to part ways with Crede, for a number of reasons...it will be either Fields, Uribe or Beltre/Blalock.

I can't see why the Sox would go from an arb-eligible injury-prone 3B to another arb-eligible injury-prone 3B.

 

There has been a lot of talk about Chone Figgins at third, and the D'Backs - Kenny's favorite trading partner - have two 3B in Chad Tracy and Mark Reynolds. Plus there's a logjam in Colorado with Stewart and Atkins, and other one-year possibilities like Melvin Mora and Pedro Feliz (I think he only signed a two-year deal with the Phils) who shouldn't cost much in terms of talent. Then there's Casey Blake, who I believe is an Iowa native and might like to play closer to home. There are several 3B possibilities beyond that and I doubt the Sox are going to restrict themselves as much as you say.

 

In fact, because of all the possibilities that exist at 3B, I expect that to be one of the last holes to fill over the offseason.

 

The first priority IMO is deciding whether or not to bring Uribe back, and at what salary. That decision immediately gives the Sox a direction to take. With Uribe locked in, then the Sox have a back-up plan as a starter for 3B, SS, and 2B. If they decide to pursue someone else as a starter then Uribe becomes a super UT man once again. The biggest question will be whether or not Uribe wants to test the free agent waters for a guaranteed starting job. He does love the Sox though, so if the money is right I could definitely see him re-upping right away even with some uncertainty as to his role.

 

The second priority will most likely be a lead-off hitter. I think Kenny will leave his options open here and will be able to target lead-off types for 2B, SS, 3B, and CF, with the main targets being Figgins, Roberts, and Furcal. Once a lead-off hitter is found then he can move on to addressing other areas.

 

The third priority should be deciding what to do with the Dye-Thome-Konerko-Swisher four-headed monster that should only reign over 3 spots. Dye will have the most trade value, but he has also been the most productive player of the 4 and is a fan favorite. If the Sox believe Konerko will come back and Swisher is still a good player in a horrible year, then trading Dye for parts that allow him a secondary move is an option. Thome I'd think is the safest bet of the four to stay simply because he's a big LH bat, and if you take that out then you have to immediately replace it. Swisher is the worst hitter of the four, but I can't see Kenny selling low on him. Anything can happen though.

 

The fourth priority will be finding a SP, probably another young guy if possible. Kenny has pieces to deal and with Contreras' contract still on the books, I expect another under-the-radar Floyd/Danks type of acquisition. It may not work out the same way, but I bet that's the road Kenny will take.

 

The fifth priority, assuming our new lead-off hitter doesn't play third, is finding a third baseman. Because of the number of options available, including Josh Fields (if he isn't traded by this point) and Uribe (assuming he's brought back) it doesn't make sense to address 3B until the larger concerns are. It's possible that picking up another reliever would hold priority over the 3B situation as well.

 

I expect KW to have a 2005-like offseason. We'll have a lot of money coming off the books, the ability to trade a slugger without strongly damaging the strength of the lineup, we'll have several holes to fill, and we'll have the incentive to build a more fundamentally sound team with a more dynamic lineup.

Edited September 18, 2008 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Josh Fields needs to be traded to the Texas Rangers. They like their young home run hitters down there. He strikes out too much and plays a lousy third. The current White Sox don't need another player that is slow, bad defensively, and only hits homeruns. Enough of that. Besides, Crede will still be here next year, along with Juan as his backup, IMHO.

Fields would be a great fit for Texas, but I don't know if they have what we'd want. Actually, let me rephrase that: they have a lot of what we'd want but they're not going to be trading it. I think prospects would be the bet from Texas since they have such a deep farm system, and that could work out well in a 3-way deal, or with another deal with a separate team in place and contingent on the Texas deal, where we'd send the prospects from the Fields trade elsewhere. Still, because of Fields' injury-riddled 2008 it's hard to guess how much he'd be worth to other teams.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Who is going to trade for a guy that put up the numbers that he did this year AFTER he has knee surgery?

A couple of things:

 

1. There has to be at least one other team out there that loves Josh Fields' potential, and it's very possible that someone jumps at the opportunity to pick him up. Keep in mind that Josh has only been strongly rumored to be available twice, once for future HOF'er Miguel Cabrera and then over this year's deadline for I believe a "top of the rotation starter." Many Sox fans feel like Josh is worthless and no one wants him, but I think it's stupid to believe that. Power potential like that doesn't grow on trees, and in his last healthy season he hit 23 homers in the Major Leagues. There may be teams out there that inquired on Josh but were denied because they weren't prepared to give up a ton, but now coming off a bad season, surgery, and apparently no longer in Ozzie's plans, he'll be available at a price another team is willing to pay.

 

2. Josh's knee surgery could help improve his defense or it could slow him down. Because of his power, he can also fit as a 1B or a DH if an American League team has interest, so that's a bit of insurance. We're not talking about a player whose value was based on speed and/or range.

 

Edit: Overall, we'll just have to wait and see. But one injury-riddled season after his impressive rookie campaign is not enough to kill a prospect with Josh's potential in the eyes of 30 MLB teams. Someone will want him and, if he's dealt, we'll get a good player back.

Edited September 18, 2008 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[caulfield12]

I can't see why the Sox would go from an arb-eligible injury-prone 3B to another arb-eligible injury-prone 3B.

 

There has been a lot of talk about Chone Figgins at third, and the D'Backs - Kenny's favorite trading partner - have two 3B in Chad Tracy and Mark Reynolds. Plus there's a logjam in Colorado with Stewart and Atkins, and other one-year possibilities like Melvin Mora and Pedro Feliz (I think he only signed a two-year deal with the Phils) who shouldn't cost much in terms of talent. Then there's Casey Blake, who I believe is an Iowa native and might like to play closer to home. There are several 3B possibilities beyond that and I doubt the Sox are going to restrict themselves as much as you say.

 

In fact, because of all the possibilities that exist at 3B, I expect that to be one of the last holes to fill over the offseason.

 

The first priority IMO is deciding whether or not to bring Uribe back, and at what salary. That decision immediately gives the Sox a direction to take. With Uribe locked in, then the Sox have a back-up plan as a starter for 3B, SS, and 2B. If they decide to pursue someone else as a starter then Uribe becomes a super UT man once again. The biggest question will be whether or not Uribe wants to test the free agent waters for a guaranteed starting job. He does love the Sox though, so if the money is right I could definitely see him re-upping right away even with some uncertainty as to his role.

 

The second priority will most likely be a lead-off hitter. I think Kenny will leave his options open here and will be able to target lead-off types for 2B, SS, 3B, and CF, with the main targets being Figgins, Roberts, and Furcal. Once a lead-off hitter is found then he can move on to addressing other areas.

 

The third priority should be deciding what to do with the Dye-Thome-Konerko-Swisher four-headed monster that should only reign over 3 spots. Dye will have the most trade value, but he has also been the most productive player of the 4 and is a fan favorite. If the Sox believe Konerko will come back and Swisher is still a good player in a horrible year, then trading Dye for parts that allow him a secondary move is an option. Thome I'd think is the safest bet of the four to stay simply because he's a big LH bat, and if you take that out then you have to immediately replace it. Swisher is the worst hitter of the four, but I can't see Kenny selling low on him. Anything can happen though.

 

The fourth priority will be finding a SP, probably another young guy if possible. Kenny has pieces to deal and with Contreras' contract still on the books, I expect another under-the-radar Floyd/Danks type of acquisition. It may not work out the same way, but I bet that's the road Kenny will take.

 

The fifth priority, assuming our new lead-off hitter doesn't play third, is finding a third baseman. Because of the number of options available, including Josh Fields (if he isn't traded by this point) and Uribe (assuming he's brought back) it doesn't make sense to address 3B until the larger concerns are. It's possible that picking up another reliever would hold priority over the 3B situation as well.

 

I expect KW to have a 2005-like offseason. We'll have a lot of money coming off the books, the ability to trade a slugger without strongly damaging the strength of the lineup, we'll have several holes to fill, and we'll have the incentive to build a more fundamentally sound team with a more dynamic lineup.

 

 

I can't remember where I saw it, but the net subtractions (assuming Cabrera and Crede are gone, and maybe Uribe) aren't that great, maybe we end up saving $5-7 million total. We still have Contreras' deal on the books, and while I'm not sure about how much insurance will cover it, or whether he will actually make a comeback attempt at mid-season....but we have to replace the fifth starter, and that won't happen with Poreda until 2010 I imagine. I think KW will try to find another bargain on the free agent market (like Loaiza) and then TRY to identify a youngster like Danks or Floyd that's undervalued and a team that would be willing to accept a package centered around Josh Fields.

 

I don't see what pieces we have to make a deal for Figgins work...it just doesn't make sense for the Angels to strengthen an AL rival. They certainly don't need Fields.

 

I think Thome will end up making more (because we're losing the Phillies subsidy), Jenks will definitely get a big raise in arbitration (I'm not sure about giving him a long-term deal with "controlled" numbers)...I think we're also carrying Mike MacDougal's contract through at least 2009.

 

It's hard to imagine a Dye trade, even though that's the most logical from a "buy low, sell high" point of view. With Konerko and Swisher at "low value" and Thome very unlikely to be dealt because of the dearth of LH bats, that just opens up another big hole in the outfield.

 

Are you going to trade Dye for another starting pitcher? Well, that's the ONLY thing that makes sense...and then trying to get an underachieving pitcher in the deal, maybe not a Phil Hughes/Homer Bailey in terms of name recognition but someone with a lot of unrealized potential. I just wouldn't count on finding another Quentin in this offseason. And I worry about going into the season with Anderson/Wise as the platoon in CF, with Swisher and Quentin on the corners.

 

I think we can get another year or two out of AJ. He's never going to throw out many runners (our pitchers don't help much in this area either!), but he's a good complimentary player, and statistically, the #2 AL catcher in many categories. Just not a #2 hitter, except for desperate circumstances.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I can't remember where I saw it, but the net subtractions (assuming Cabrera and Crede are gone, and maybe Uribe) aren't that great, maybe we end up saving $5-7 million total. We still have Contreras' deal on the books, and while I'm not sure about how much insurance will cover it, or whether he will actually make a comeback attempt at mid-season....but we have to replace the fifth starter, and that won't happen with Poreda until 2010 I imagine. I think KW will try to find another bargain on the free agent market (like Loaiza) and then TRY to identify a youngster like Danks or Floyd that's undervalued and a team that would be willing to accept a package centered around Josh Fields.

 

I don't see what pieces we have to make a deal for Figgins work...it just doesn't make sense for the Angels to strengthen an AL rival. They certainly don't need Fields.

 

I think Thome will end up making more (because we're losing the Phillies subsidy), Jenks will definitely get a big raise in arbitration (I'm not sure about giving him a long-term deal with "controlled" numbers)...I think we're also carrying Mike MacDougal's contract through at least 2009.

 

It's hard to imagine a Dye trade, even though that's the most logical from a "buy low, sell high" point of view. With Konerko and Swisher at "low value" and Thome very unlikely to be dealt because of the dearth of LH bats, that just opens up another big hole in the outfield.

 

Are you going to trade Dye for another starting pitcher? Well, that's the ONLY thing that makes sense...and then trying to get an underachieving pitcher in the deal, maybe not a Phil Hughes/Homer Bailey in terms of name recognition but someone with a lot of unrealized potential. I just wouldn't count on finding another Quentin in this offseason. And I worry about going into the season with Anderson/Wise as the platoon in CF, with Swisher and Quentin on the corners.

 

I think we can get another year or two out of AJ. He's never going to throw out many runners (our pitchers don't help much in this area either!), but he's a good complimentary player, and statistically, the #2 AL catcher in many categories. Just not a #2 hitter, except for desperate circumstances.

I'm willing to bet Kenny already has a list of potential Floyd/Danks-like projects, it's just whether or not we'll be able to pick one of them up. I think that's the plan too.

 

The Contreras injury hurts because now we can't trade him, but it *could* end up being a blessing in disguise if we get another young pitcher and Contreras comes back mid-season '09. If we get another guy into August and he's starting to wear down then Contreras coming back would be huge. I think the Sox wanted to go young in their rotation post-Contreras anyway, even if he came out of '08 healthy.

 

What we don't know regarding Figgins is what players we have that the Angels would want. The Angels are known for their farm and they may covet some players in our farm that don't get mentioned as often. I wouldn't say we don't have enough to get him because neither of us know enough about our farm to make that determination. Chone Figgins isn't exactly Albert Pujols, he's a slap-hitting speedster with one year left on his contract who plays mediocre defense. All we have to do is beat Type A compensation and other interested teams' offers. No team is going to offer an elite prospect for this guy.

 

Agree on Thome. We do have MacDougal under contract next year as well. Jenks will get a raise.

 

I think we could get an underachieving player in a Konerko deal or a Swisher deal. If we deal Dye I want something really good because he's only had one bad year since coming to the Sox, and it was more like a bad half that made his year look bad. Other than that he's been great and he's on an affordable contract for the next two years I believe.

 

Agree on AJ and I think we'll have a better option to hit second in '09.

Edited September 18, 2008 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[elrockinMT]

That defensive regression my very well be a result of that bad knee.

 

 

To be fair to Josh Fields you may be correct. Question is did he suffer from a knee problem ALL year long? He struggled mightily at AAA

[Balta1701]

To be fair to Josh Fields you may be correct. Question is did he suffer from a knee problem ALL year long? He struggled mightily at AAA

On May 8 of this year, Josh was placed on the AAA DL with Patella Tendinitis...aka a knee problem. I can't say for sure which knee was giving him the problems then...but something tells me the answer to that question is yes. He was on and off the Milb DL in the early months of this season.

[ptatc]

On May 8 of this year, Josh was placed on the AAA DL with Patella Tendinitis...aka a knee problem. I can't say for sure which knee was giving him the problems then...but something tells me the answer to that question is yes. He was on and off the Milb DL in the early months of this season.

 

If this is the injury that they are doing surgery on, then it is a severe problem. Surgery is not done for patella tenonitis unless it has progressed to the point that part of the tendon becomes necrotic or starts to die. They can remove the dead tissue and have good tisuue grow in the spot. This is a severe case and doesn't happen often.

 

[caulfield12]

If this is the injury that they are doing surgery on, then it is a severe problem. Surgery is not done for patella tenonitis unless it has progressed to the point that part of the tendon becomes necrotic or starts to die. They can remove the dead tissue and have good tisuue grow in the spot. This is a severe case and doesn't happen often.

 

 

Now you're reminding me of Bo Jackson's hip with "necrotic."

 

Interesting...Fields' quote was something along the lines of that it was a simple procedure.

 

"I'm excited to finally know what's going on and get it taken care of," said Fields of the arthroscopic surgery. "I don't know how to explain it because I don't totally understand what the doctors have told me, but they understand what they need to do.

 

"They can go in take care of it really easily. The recovery is not supposed to be hard at all."

 

 

 

[greg775]

Dotel goes from 5Mil to 6Mil next season.

-Linebrink goes from 4 to 4.5 next season

-MacDougal jumps from 1.95 to 2.65

 

Wow. We got the good Dotel tonight in a wasted cause. I can't believe that bum is a zillionaire.

MacDougal is stealing so much loot.

Liney has an excuse, the injury.

[ptatc]

Now you're reminding me of Bo Jackson's hip with "necrotic."

 

Interesting...Fields' quote was something along the lines of that it was a simple procedure.

 

"I'm excited to finally know what's going on and get it taken care of," said Fields of the arthroscopic surgery. "I don't know how to explain it because I don't totally understand what the doctors have told me, but they understand what they need to do.

 

"They can go in take care of it really easily. The recovery is not supposed to be hard at all."

 

Necrotic is the same condition but Jackson's was in bone, Fields is in tendon.

 

From Fields' comment I don't think it is the same injury or it was misdiagnosed earlier. He may have had a couple of different injuries to that knee.

 

[witesoxfan]

The second priority will most likely be a lead-off hitter. I think Kenny will leave his options open here and will be able to target lead-off types for 2B, SS, 3B, and CF, with the main targets being Figgins, Roberts, and Furcal. Once a lead-off hitter is found then he can move on to addressing other areas.

 

I think the most attractive option and one not mentioned is Orlando Hudson, unless I have missed something in my 3 or so weeks of being a bit inactive. He's ended each of the past 2 years on the DL, but he's a fantastic player and could very easily slip into the leadoff spot as far as I'm concerned.

 

The third priority should be deciding what to do with the Dye-Thome-Konerko-Swisher four-headed monster that should only reign over 3 spots. Dye will have the most trade value, but he has also been the most productive player of the 4 and is a fan favorite. If the Sox believe Konerko will come back and Swisher is still a good player in a horrible year, then trading Dye for parts that allow him a secondary move is an option. Thome I'd think is the safest bet of the four to stay simply because he's a big LH bat, and if you take that out then you have to immediately replace it. Swisher is the worst hitter of the four, but I can't see Kenny selling low on him. Anything can happen though.

 

I count 4 spots for 4 players; CF, RF, 1B, and DH. Why do people not consider Swisher a CFer? He played an average CF all year and his value offensively is much better in CF than it is at any other position he plays, especially 1B.

 

[Kalapse]

Just for the record: Jim Thome's $13M (a large portion of which may or may not be picked up by Philly) 2009 team option should vest tomorrow, assuming he gets 5 PA in either today or tomorrow's game.

[justBLAZE]

Just for the record: Jim Thome's $13M (a large portion of which may or may not be picked up by Philly) 2009 team option should vest tomorrow, assuming he gets 5 PA in either today or tomorrow's game.

 

Is that the supposed 'handshake' agreement between Kenny and Pat Gillick?

 

I don't really understand that deal, can Philly say screw it and not pick up part of it?

 

And speaking about bums earlier in the thread, Swisher needs to start earning his paycheck next year.