'Anonymous' Hacker Group Gets Palin's Emails

[lostfan]

So, just to change gears a bit, who else has a problem with the fact that governor Palin's emails being posted online is a bad thing but the government reading all my emails is a good thing and worthy of the support of both of our presidential candidates?

Let me chime in here since I'm in somewhat of a position to know.

 

The government, well more specifically, intelligence agencies, don't arbitrarily read your e-mails... ever. First off it is a waste of time and valuable resources to be coming through a bunch of random innocent people's e-mails/listening to their phone calls/other forms of communication. Secondly it's a flagrant violation of intelligence oversight laws. The only way this can happen legitimately is if there was suspicion you were working with a foreign intelligence agency or were communicating with international terrorists. A long time ago, like during the Nixon administration, there wasn't anything protecting the government from overstepping its bounds, but there is now, and there's a lot more institutionalized protection now. Mistakes happen sometimes, but they are identified and corrected too.

 

The other aspect to this is the police and the FBI, I'm sure you already know how that works though. The same general rules apply.

[bmags]

You know who stepped in to help Rush Lumbaugh when he was in trouble? The ACLU

[lostfan]

My question is where's the ACLU lawsuits about privacy and all that crap? Oh, I forgot, it's Repulican Sarah Palin.

Isn't the ACLU's primary target the government? How's the (federal) government involved here?

[bmags]

Don Corleone wouldnt even talk on the telephone.

 

Stringer Bell wasn't supposed to either.

[Texsox]

 

PRIVACY! If this were someone else, the ALCU would be all over this, citing privacy concerns.

 

It's just funny.

 

Kap, seriously, this seems like a straight forward criminal matter.The ACLU generally files suit against the government for violating someone's Constitutional rights. This was between two citizens and doesn't have any Constitutional elements that I see. Are you suggesting if this was Biden, they would be suing Anonymous?

[kapkomet]

Seriously, it's not a big deal. I just like ripping the ACLU for inconsistency.

[southsideirish71]

Let me chime in here since I'm in somewhat of a position to know.

 

The government, well more specifically, intelligence agencies, don't arbitrarily read your e-mails... ever. First off it is a waste of time and valuable resources to be coming through a bunch of random innocent people's e-mails/listening to their phone calls/other forms of communication. Secondly it's a flagrant violation of intelligence oversight laws. The only way this can happen legitimately is if there was suspicion you were working with a foreign intelligence agency or were communicating with international terrorists. A long time ago, like during the Nixon administration, there wasn't anything protecting the government from overstepping its bounds, but there is now, and there's a lot more institutionalized protection now. Mistakes happen sometimes, but they are identified and corrected too.

 

The other aspect to this is the police and the FBI, I'm sure you already know how that works though. The same general rules apply.

 

Just from a logistics standpoint its hard to just grab it all. First thing you need is choke points to have data collection devices to grab it all. Considering that most of your traffic traverses peering nodes and doesnt touch the NAP points on the net it makes it harder for the massive collection of data. In the end, the government and the federal law enforcement agencies are using some sort of packet capture engine that writes this to a local disk such as in a Calea configuration. This would be specific deployed packet capture based on a filter. Copying this information across the internet takes too long, and would be way too inefficient. One thing a packet capture appliance has, is a limit on the disk space. As a person who has run full packet capture just on a company network, you can fill even a large disk array up in short order. Its not just an issue of their integrity or ethics, its logistics of just trying to capture that much information and where one would use choke points to see the data they are looking for.

 

 

[Soxbadger]

But there is no inconsistency here. The ACLU's mission statement is to protect you from the GOVERNMENT not from private citizens.

 

http://www.aclu.org/about/index.html

 

The mission of the ACLU is to preserve all of these protections and guarantees:

 

* Your First Amendment rights - freedom of speech, association and assembly; freedom of the press, and freedom of religion.

* Your right to equal protection under the law - equal treatment regardless of race, sex, religion or national origin.

* Your right to due process - fair treatment by the government whenever the loss of your liberty or property is at stake.

* Your right to privacy - freedom from unwarranted government intrusion into your personal and private affairs.

 

Notice in right to privacy it states from unwarranted government intrusion.

 

The question really is, what could the ACLU even do?

 

Are there any Civil law "email hacking" statutes? Because under what theory of law would hacking an email fall under? Its not damage to property, its not negligence, perhaps theft but that would once again be criminal, you cant really do conversion, quantum meriut doesnt really work, there is no real fraud, and the damages are not monetary. Maybe you could sue for a permanent injunction to stop the hacking, but the only repercussion for failing to follow an injunction is more penalties, so if hacking itself is a crime it would be like getting a permanent injunction for your neighbor to stop stealing your money.

 

Its important to remember that civil liberties generally apply to govt action, because the bill of rights protects you from the govt. It does not protect you from private entities or private citizens. That is why if you are at my house I could say:

 

"You can never say the phrase 'Cubs World Series'".

 

And it would not be a first amendment violation, as Im a private actor.

 

Now lets say it turned out that the Bush administration was behind the email hacking, then Im pretty sure the ACLU would get involved and be quite happy to stand up for Palin's right to privacy from govt intrusion.

[lostfan]

Just from a logistics standpoint its hard to just grab it all. First thing you need is choke points to have data collection devices to grab it all. Considering that most of your traffic traverses peering nodes and doesnt touch the NAP points on the net it makes it harder for the massive collection of data. In the end, the government and the federal law enforcement agencies are using some sort of packet capture engine that writes this to a local disk such as in a Calea configuration. This would be specific deployed packet capture based on a filter. Copying this information across the internet takes too long, and would be way too inefficient. One thing a packet capture appliance has, is a limit on the disk space. As a person who has run full packet capture just on a company network, you can fill even a large disk array up in short order. Its not just an issue of their integrity or ethics, its logistics of just trying to capture that much information and where one would use choke points to see the data they are looking for.

Even if you DID have all that technical capability that lets you collect that information, processing and analyzing it becomes another issue entirely. That'd be a bureaucratic nightmare.

[Texsox]

Seriously, it's not a big deal. I just like ripping the ACLU for inconsistency.

 

Kap has a valid point, they do appear inconsistent. But part of that is because of their mission statement. Who, in our society are the most likely to have their rights threatened? It is not the same demographic as the bulk of the GOP. It is those people that quite frankly I do not usually agree with, and I doubt many here do. Skin heads marching in Skokie*, KKK in a black neighborhood*. People who fit some terrorist profile. The only comfort I have in some of their efforts is, if those assholes still have their rights, then people who are responsible, rational, decent human beings also have theirs. Once we start erroding those rights eventually we start restricting groups who we do agree with, and by then it may be too late.

 

This comes from someone whose employer was sued by the ACLU all the way to the US Supreme Court.

 

*OK, they may be voting anti-Obama (McCain GOP) but I refuse to call them Republicans.

[kapkomet]

But there is no inconsistency here. The ACLU's mission statement is to protect you from the GOVERNMENT not from private citizens.

 

http://www.aclu.org/about/index.html

 

 

 

Notice in right to privacy it states from unwarranted government intrusion.

 

The question really is, what could the ACLU even do?

 

Are there any Civil law "email hacking" statutes? Because under what theory of law would hacking an email fall under? Its not damage to property, its not negligence, perhaps theft but that would once again be criminal, you cant really do conversion, quantum meriut doesnt really work, there is no real fraud, and the damages are not monetary. Maybe you could sue for a permanent injunction to stop the hacking, but the only repercussion for failing to follow an injunction is more penalties, so if hacking itself is a crime it would be like getting a permanent injunction for your neighbor to stop stealing your money.

 

Its important to remember that civil liberties generally apply to govt action, because the bill of rights protects you from the govt. It does not protect you from private entities or private citizens. That is why if you are at my house I could say:

 

"You can never say the phrase 'Cubs World Series'".

 

And it would not be a first amendment violation, as Im a private actor.

 

Now lets say it turned out that the Bush administration was behind the email hacking, then Im pretty sure the ACLU would get involved and be quite happy to stand up for Palin's right to privacy from govt intrusion.

 

You're right about that. I just like to pick on the ACLU. I wasn't trying to start something big on this.

 

 

[Texsox]

You're right about that. I just like to pick on the ACLU. I wasn't trying to start something big on this.

 

[Texsox]

I think we've hit the point in this thread where I like to say

 

Did anyone read where Palin is going to be a grandmother, even though her teenager isn't married?!

[southsideirish71]

I think we've hit the point in this thread where I like to say

 

Did anyone read where Palin is going to be a grandmother, even though her teenager isn't married?!

 

GILF

[Soxbadger]

 

I think GILF is highly offensive and should not be used on this thread.

 

What about all the other grand mothers out there who have been marginalized due to their hot body and unquenchable appetite for young men?

 

The last thing we want is a boycott from the red hat society.

[Rex Kickass]

 

I think GILF is highly offensive and should not be used on this thread.

 

What about all the other grand mothers out there who have been marginalized due to their hot body and unquenchable appetite for young men?

 

The last thing we want is a boycott from the red hat society.

 

*community organizes the group "Grannies for Body Equity"*

[kapkomet]

*community organizes the group "Grannies for Body Equity"*

[Rex Kickass]

THIS IS NOT A LAUGHING MATTER! LITTLE OLD LADIES DESERVE A LITTLE OGLING!

[kapkomet]

I just about spit coffee out all over the place.

 

[Rex Kickass]

Just wait til you hear our chants.

[southsider2k5]

*community organizes the group "Grannies for Body Equity"*

 

We all know Bea Arthur will be the President of this group...

[Rex Kickass]

We all know Bea Arthur will be the President of this group...

 

She'll always bea the Chairperson Emeritus of my heart. :wub:

[bmags]

I have an autographed photo of Betty White

[Texsox]

Just wait til you hear our chants.

 

"less fashion, more action"

[Rex Kickass]

"less fashion, more action"

 

2,4,6,8, Orthopedic Shoes look great!