knightni Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Nice job pitching guys on 3 days rest, Oz. <_> Here's hoping that they can all stay healthy enough to finish the season. Why couldn't he have sacrificed Broadway to the Yankees so that everyone could have gone on 4 days rest? One huge loss > 2 losses and possible tired arm syndrome for the rest of the pennant race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 But Ozzie has the passion. The damn passion. All you need is passion. You've got to have the passion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 16 innings, 14 runs for Javy/Buehrle/Floyd on 3 days rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 20, 2008 -> 08:02 PM) But Ozzie has the passion. The damn passion. All you need is passion. You've got to have the passion. And a magic 8 ball. How about in one of the large outfields, that we decide to break up the old guys in RF and CF. Maybe put Brian Anderson, whom I think might have the same chance for success as Griffey in his old age. Keep AJ out of the 2 hole. My god man, you moved Carl Everett who is a lot more boisterous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 20, 2008 -> 10:04 PM) 16 innings, 14 runs for Javy/Buehrle/Floyd on 3 days rest. Take out Buehrle's and see how it looks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 (edited) I can't criticize Guillen because every game this late in the season matters. I'd rather throw our starters out on short rest than a rested Broadway anyday. Sure, the end result of a loss would have been the same; but at this moment it's a question of who gives you the best opportunity to win? We can lose three straight in the playoffs with each of our starters giving up 8 runs, sure, but you have to get their first. And NO equation entering the playoffs should go thru that bum Lance Broadway. Edited September 21, 2008 by Flash Tizzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 QUOTE (knightni @ Sep 21, 2008 -> 03:05 AM) Take out Buehrle's and see how it looks. I'm not that good at math! It was a very stupid decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Sep 20, 2008 -> 10:06 PM) I can't criticize Guillen because every game this late in the season matters. I'd rather throw these starters out on short rest then a rested Broadway anyway. Sure, the end result of a loss would have been the same; but at the moment it's a question of who gives you the best opportunity to win. We can lose three straight in the playoffs with each of our starters giving up 8 runs, sure, but you have to get their first. And NO equation entering the playoffs should go thru that bum Lance Broadway. He pulled a stunt that an OOTP manager would be afraid to pull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Sep 21, 2008 -> 03:06 AM) I can't criticize Guillen because every game this late in the season matters. I'd rather throw these starters out on short rest then a rested Broadway anyway. Sure, the end result of a loss would have been the same; but at the moment it's a question of who gives you the best opportunity to win. We can lose three straight in the playoffs with each of our starters giving up 8 runs, sure, but you have to get their first. And NO equation entering the playoffs should go thru that bum Lance Broadway. But the thing is, we didn't have to pitch Floyd on 3 days rest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Well, the Twins are just as taxed. Perkins has basically imploded, to the point where they have to skip over him in the rotation....his ERA is at 9.75 his last four starts. Blackburn is in the same situation...and he will have to pitch against the Sox. And we have to remember all of the Twins' starters are first or second year pitchers, 25-26 years old. Ultimately, the Twins lost the Baker start on 3 day's rest, even though he pitched well. We'll see if Liriano can bounce back from his last start...his first bad one since the comeback. He has really been lucky to avoid most of the best hitting teams in the AL, or he's faced them (like CLE) when they were depleted or simply not hitting the ball very well. IF IF IF the White Sox lose tomorrow and the Twins win, there's going to be a lot of nervousness for 2 days, waiting to see which Javier Vazquez shows up in Game 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 20, 2008 -> 10:07 PM) I'm not that good at math! It was a very stupid decision. 10 IP 12 R 11 ER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 The offense needs to wake the f*** up. April, May and now September. Wake the f*** up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Sep 21, 2008 -> 03:09 AM) Floyd wasn't the problem tonight. He went 6 strong innings tonight. He still ended up giving up 5 runs, and now you have to wonder about how he'll bounce back from pitching on short rest (lots of analysts believe that's the toughest part for a pitcher). I just will never understand why we couldn't have pitched Danks tonight and Floyd tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Sep 20, 2008 -> 10:09 PM) Floyd wasn't the problem tonight. He went 6 strong innings tonight. Until Ozzie threw gas on the fire and brought in Logan, then MacDougal (who has allowed at least 4 inherited runs to score in the last 3 days). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 (edited) Well, we can't be 100% sure that Danks didn't go to Cooper and Ozzie and say something...remember all the posts about shutting down Danks for the last month despite his Top 5 AL ERA? Maybe they didn't want to have Buehrle and Danks back-to-back. Maybe they had reason to believe that Floyd would give them a better chance to beat the Twins than Danks. I don't know. I guess we'll have to wait and see how it all plays out the rest of the season. At this point, I would trust Baker/Liriano/Slowey in the playoffs over any top three the White Sox can throw out there, just because those guys have been so inconsistent over the 2nd half. Certainly, the White Sox have the experience (including WS for Buehrle and Jenks), but we've replaced so much of our pitching staff from 3 short years ago. Three things to consider... Post-ASB, Minnesota has outpitched us, 4.04 ERA to 4.73 (the other top five teams in the AL are 1-5, ranging from 3.40 to 4.20). We are right around 9th/10th and still fading...we might even be 10th behind KC, I didn't take the time to readjust/recalculate after tonight's disaster. Our pitching, which was a strength in 2005 and the first half of 2008, just hasn't been there, especially the bullpen. 2) The Twins have an average of .311 with RISP. If they continue that for the next week, they will have the best team average with RISP in the AL IN THE LAST 34 YEARS. 3) The Twins have outscored us 331 to 302 post ASB. Twins, 2nd in AL runs scored since the break, White Sox 9th again. We were leading by 1 1/2 games at the break. We are now leading by 2 1/2 games. How is that even possible? I think a lot of the credit has to go to Guillen. You can't argue the fact that injuries haven't had more of an effect on the White Sox than the Twins in the second half. Quentin, Linebrink, Contreras, Crede > Michael Cuddyer Edited September 21, 2008 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 And if Broadway/Richard would have started and lost, everyone would have complained that ozzie is throwing nobodys out there in the heat of a pennant race. We lost today because our offense sucked. Davies faced the minimun for like 6 or 7 innings...if we are not gonna score runs against mediocre pitchers like that, then we are not gonna suceed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 I don't like the 3 days rest stuff. He could have used Broadway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 20, 2008 -> 10:24 PM) And if Broadway/Richard would have started and lost, everyone would have complained that ozzie is throwing nobodys out there in the heat of a pennant race. Richard did lose, thanks to MacDougal. If Broadway had to go out there to keep 3 starters from going on 3 days rest, I'd be all for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 Ever since we had Ozzie s*** the bed in Baltimore on the makeup game, this team has been in a nosedive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 QUOTE (knightni @ Sep 20, 2008 -> 09:29 PM) Ever since we had Ozzie s*** the bed in Baltimore on the makeup game, this team has been in a nosedive. I don't think its that Knight. These guys have pucker problems. The minute the pressure steps up, they start to pucker up and die. Medicore baseball and this thing is clinched. 2 under 500 for the month, and one of the worst offenses in the AL for the month of September is why this is going to be decided in the last week. Then of course you have Buerhle in the paper talking about how basically the Twins series is they are up by games, because is impossible for them to win there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 QUOTE (knightni @ Sep 21, 2008 -> 02:29 AM) Ever since we had Ozzie s*** the bed in Baltimore on the makeup game, this team has been in a nosedive. I like the way you think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (knightni @ Sep 20, 2008 -> 08:29 PM) Ever since we had Ozzie s*** the bed in Baltimore on the makeup game, this team has been in a nosedive. The reality is that the fundamental composition of this team changed on July 22nd when Linebrink went out. From that point on, almost every single reliever on this team has struggled at various times in the 7th and the 8th in roles they were uncomfortable taking/inheriting. Those 2005 Sox were so good because Hermanson, Politte, Cotts and Jenks were lights out and automatic almost the entire season. Even Thornton and Jenks have had their moments in the 2nd half where they looked very beatable. I'm not going to list all of the relievers and their post ASB ERA's, it would be too horrific. The reality is both the White Sox and Twins have been treading water for weeks now, with neither team wanting to take the bull by the horns and run away with the division when the opportunity was presented. I actually think, when history looks back on this season, that it will go down as one of Guillen's better managing jobs. You can throw out those hypothetical W/L records based on runs scored and runs given up, but they don't tell the tale, because the offense produced by the White Sox is so erratic/schitzophrenic. This has been the truth ever since 2000 when the offense and pitching carried the team until injuries decimated the pitching staff and we were again playing more of less .500 ball for the remainder of the 2nd half...or fading even worse in 2006. While the offense is getting a lot of the blame, the best White Sox runs (first half 2000, 2005, first half 2008) have been fueled by great pitching and at least solid or adequate defense. Then we have the offensive anomaly of the first half of 2006 masking/covering the pitching problems that were beginning to take their toll. KW designed this team for the new ballpark, and that has it's advantages and disadvantages, just as the Twins' composition can be a detriment on the road as well. If nothing else, losing the ability to manufacture runs, steal bases and play fundamentally sound ball has hurt this team as much as anything. Speed and fundamentals never slump...which is why the Twins could always beat us, because they never beat themselves (at least until the last couple of seasons, and when our pitching was completely dominant in 2005). Over a 162 game season, their consistency would always come back to get us...it's kind of like comparing Martina Hingis and Anna Kournikova. We hit the big home runs, launch fireworks and put up the gaudy statistics...while the Twins just "hold serve" and do what they're supposed to do until the other teams beat themselves. Going along with the tennis analogy, Hingis/Twins are always fine until they run into the superior firepower of big budget teams like the Yankees, Angels, Red Sox and sheer talent overwhelms consistency and fundamentals. Edited September 21, 2008 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 There's minimal speed, minimal defense and no timely hitting. It's semi-talented corpseball rearing its ugly head, yet again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 QUOTE (knightni @ Sep 20, 2008 -> 08:48 PM) There's minimal speed, minimal defense and no timely hitting. It's semi-talented corpseball rearing its ugly head, yet again. Its funny. Kenny talked a good game about grinders, and playing like the twins, and how we will play like the twins. Then he keeps assembling the same offense. Hell he trades a line drive type, to get a low BA power guy. He loves him some power hitters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Here's a problem...Brian Anderson is just as good offensively as Griffey Jr. is now, and he's clearly the superior defender. We keep treating Griffey Jr. like he's the 1998 version and not the Willie Mays on the Mets version. Seriously, Griffey Jr. has one homer since he's been with the Sox. In roughly 10 more at bats, Toby Hall has more homers than Griffey Jr. does! Also, why not give Dye a day off instead of benching Konerko? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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