Ozzie : 1 Reality: 2

[TheBigHurt]

You can say the same thing for those fans who always think getting rid of the manager/coach or putting in the back-up quarterback will solve everything...I always hear complaints about Guillen, but not as much before-the-fact second-guessing as afterwards. It's easy to look back on any game in hindsight. The problem is there's no way to say YOUR choice or idea would have worked better. It's why the ratio of praise versus criticism (especially after games) is always 1 to 10...

 

Guillen was very patient with Ramirez, quickly identified him (from spring training on) as the "baseball" player and not just a raw athlete he was, and kept him around on the big league roster, waiting for the warm weather, which he correctly predicted would help...as well as regular at-bats. If you look at every scouting report on Ramirez, and what the other teams that went to his tryout that passed on offering a contract said...you have to give some credit to both KW and OG. Same with Ozzie's almost overabundant praise of Iguchi as the MVP.

 

When Guillen has players on is team that can play the game the right way, he's always effusive with his praise. He gives players many chances to fail (see Boone Logan) and always has been very patient and supportive of the starters (Garland, Contreras, Vazquez...now Danks and Floyd, too)...I remember that this was something that Manuel was always attacked for, not letting Garland pitch out of trouble. Two seasons ago, it was that Javier could never get past the 5th/6th inning, yet Ozzie stuck with him and they got through that season and seemingly turned things around, without giving up on Javier and trading him yet again.

 

Would Contreras have succeeded equally well with another manager and pitching coach? Thornton? Jenks?

 

You can look at "in-game" tactics all you want, but if those players don't have the right clubhouse environment around them, they don't believe and trust in their manager and teammates...then they usually don't make the playoffs.

 

Another example, in 2005, everyone was crucifying Guillen for his Sunday line-ups and playing the bench players so often. Well, apparently that "rest" kicked in the final week or so of the season, and players like Blum and Willie Harris went out to make key contributions because they got enough opportunities to play down the stretch.

 

Any tactical/strategic manager is still only as good as hunches and past statistical analyses and trends. You can have all the books and computer printouts in the world, but you can't teach intuition and having a feel for the game. Some managers have it, others don't. You have to find the right button to push with each player. While motivation is sometimes overestimated in baseball (it's not football), you can't sell that part of Guillen's contributions short.

 

Seemingly every time the team has needed a mental boost of lift, Ozzie getting on them at just the right time (but not too much, where it loses all meaning and players roll their eyes) has worked well this season...when the team has struggled, Ozzie has focused the attention on himself, Mariotti, the Cubs, etc., and the team has usually relaxed and played better baseball after that.

 

Dude, I'm not going as far as to say who would be a better manager or that firing Guillen would be the ultimate solution (honestly it wouldn't). I'm just saying he's a bad manager that does NOT put his team in the best position to win. THAT'S ALL. It would just be nice of people like yourself could just admit that simple truth, that's all. What reason is there to defend him and try to pout about people attacking him? He's a bad in-game manager with little know-how, plain and simple.

 

And as far as his motivational abilities, that's fine and dandy, and that's one thing I LIKE about Ozzie, but what good has it done? How good have the Sox looked since 2005 ended? Ask yourself that question. The actual BASEBALL MANAGING ABILITIES need to be there. They are absent from Ozzie. It's a simple FACT, so why all the defense? I'm not looking to crucify the man, I just don't get why there are still people out there who deny his incompetence

 

 

The only thing you didn't blame was the starting pitching. So tell me how Ozzie managing like a genious is going to compensate for a bad offense, defense, coaching and bullpen ?

 

[sarcasm]

Ah, yes. I forgot... with those circumstances, a manager clearly can't mistakes.

[/sarcasm]

More denial. And did I say anything about compensation? Did I say Ozzie being better would make the team better? No, but it would result in a LOT LESS mistakes and a LOT MORE opportunities for the Sox to win. We don't have much of that with Ozzie because he has no idea how to manage a team.

 

Man, you guys can't read between the lines. I guess that's why you defend Ozzie... lack of logic.

Edited September 21, 2008 by TheBigHurt

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Dude, I'm not going as far as to say who would be a better manager or that firing Guillen would be the ultimate solution (honestly it wouldn't). I'm just saying he's a bad manager that does NOT put his team in the best position to win. THAT'S ALL. It would just be nice of people like yourself could just admit that simple truth, that's all. What reason is there to defend him and try to pout about people attacking him? He's a bad in-game manager with little know-how, plain and simple.

 

And as far as his motivational abilities, that's fine and dandy, and that's one thing I LIKE about Ozzie, but what good has it done? How good have the Sox looked since 2005 ended? Ask yourself that question. The actual BASEBALL MANAGING ABILITIES need to be there. They are absent from Ozzie. It's a simple FACT, so why all the defense? I'm not looking to crucify the man, I just don't get why there are still people out there who deny his incompetence

 

 

 

 

[sarcasm]

Ah, yes. I forgot... with those circumstances, a manager clearly can't mistakes.

[/sarcasm]

More denial. And did I say anything about compensation? Did I say Ozzie being better would make the team better? No, but it would result in a LOT LESS mistakes and a LOT MORE opportunities for the Sox to win. We don't have much of that with Ozzie because he has no idea how to manage a team.

 

Man, you guys can't read between the lines. I guess that's why you defend Ozzie... lack of logic.

What exactly am I denying ? By your logic with everything but the starting pitching being lousy shouldn't the Sox be in last place ? I really don't understand why you're so outspoken in your hatred of Ozzie's managing. Clearly a manager who doesn't put his team in the best position to win combined with all the other ills that you mention would produce a very very bad team. We're in a decent position to win the division. Have you no grasp of White Sox history ? We don't win much very often and if you have suffered like a lot of White Sox fans have suffered with this team over many years you count your blessings that we're in the position we're in now and don't dissect everything wrong with this team. There is no such thing as a perfect player, a perfect manager. So why torture yourself ? You don't have the answers . All you're doing is spitting into the wind. What's so logical about that ?

Edited September 21, 2008 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[joejoesox]

for those holding onto the "2.5 game lead with 7 (possibly 8) games remaining"

 

that means next to nothing, with the team behind us possessing a homefield advantage for 3 of the next 7-8 games, a ridiculous homefield advantage might I add

 

if our next 3 opponents were, say, KC, Seattle, Cleveland, that 2.5 game lead actually means a lot more than it does right now

 

and also, if we lose tomorrow, these guys don't deserve to even make the playoffs, there's no f***ing reason to lose 2/3 to the f***ing royals, not when you're playing for a division title

 

either you win tomorrow, or you lose because you just wanna cash it in, it's that simple

 

oh, and can we stop treating Mark Teahen like he's a f***ing scrub please, he can hit homeruns, get a f***ing clue guys and stop pitching to this guy like he can't hit a fastball or hanging breaking ball

[caulfield12]

"And as far as his motivational abilities, that's fine and dandy, and that's one thing I LIKE about Ozzie, but what good has it done? How good have the Sox looked since 2005 ended? Ask yourself that question. The actual BASEBALL MANAGING ABILITIES need to be there. They are absent from Ozzie. It's a simple FACT, so why all the defense? I'm not looking to crucify the man, I just don't get why there are still people out there who deny his incompetence."

 

2004=83-79 (Pythagorean, 84-78)

2005=99-63 (expected 91-71) actually, 110-64

2006=90-72 (expected 88-74)

2007=72-90 (expected 67-95)

 

Every year but one, he's done better or much better than would be predicted statistically (even then, it was only a one game difference in 2004). I think we all understand that the 2005 team overachieved (and you have to give the manager some credit there). but even in 2006 and 2007, the team's overall record was better than it should have been. What more can you ask of the manager?

 

The guy's 66 games over .500 in his career managing the Sox. That's nothing to be ashamed about. You can do the same analysis (it's not perfect, but it's certainly one barometer) for any manager (the ones I listed earlier) and Ozzie ranks right up there with the better ones in the game. Phil Rogers wrote just such a column a year or two ago, I think.

 

In 2006, the starters died in the second half, along with Jenks and the offense. In 2007, when you're playing Andy Gonzalez, Jerry Owens and Josh Fields for significant numbers of games, you can see why the analysis would have projected 67 and not 72 losses. We had the worst bullpen in the American League, qualitatively if not quantitatively.

Edited September 21, 2008 by caulfield12

[TheBigHurt]

"And as far as his motivational abilities, that's fine and dandy, and that's one thing I LIKE about Ozzie, but what good has it done? How good have the Sox looked since 2005 ended? Ask yourself that question. The actual BASEBALL MANAGING ABILITIES need to be there. They are absent from Ozzie. It's a simple FACT, so why all the defense? I'm not looking to crucify the man, I just don't get why there are still people out there who deny his incompetence."

 

2004=83-79 (Pythagorean, 84-78)

2005=99-63 (expected 91-71) actually, 110-64

2006=90-72 (expected 88-74)

2007=72-90 (expected 67-95)

 

Every year but one, he's done better or much better than would be predicted statistically (even then, it was only a one game difference in 2004). I think we all understand that the 2005 team overachieved (and you have to give the manager some credit there). but even in 2006 and 2007, the team's overall record was better than it should have been. What more can you ask of the manager?

 

The guy's 66 games over .500 in his career managing the Sox. That's nothing to be ashamed about. You can do the same analysis (it's not perfect, but it's certainly one barometer) for any manager (the ones I listed earlier) and Ozzie ranks right up there with the better ones in the game. Phil Rogers wrote just such a column a year or two ago, I think.

 

In 2006, the starters died in the second half, along with Jenks and the offense. In 2007, when you're playing Andy Gonzalez, Jerry Owens and Josh Fields for significant numbers of games, you can see why the analysis would have projected 67 and not 72 losses. We had the worst bullpen in the American League, qualitatively if not quantitatively.

 

Dude, you're just not getting it. Man, and I thought I was a fan who lacked knowledge and insight. Wow.

 

Yeah, and once the team was done overachieving, Ozzie's mismanaging become quite apparent, didn't it? NOTHING you are saying is actual logic to the argument. All you are doing is rambling, changing the subject, comparing other managers, and throwing around irrelevant statistics. You presenting just about everything you can that's NOT relevant. I'll probably get in trouble for saying this, but you're like a desperate woman in an argument. You'll go on forever and ever and say nothing relevant, but never give up spouting the same meaningless babble because that's your nature. You're another statistic guy who thinks the statistics he's presenting have any relevance to Ozzie's inability as an in-game manager.

 

Not much point in arguing with you further. I'm beating a dead horse here. It's clear no "Ozzie defender" on this board can read or provide any solid argument. I don't see how you people can't see the truth. Ozzie makes f***ups so much it's ridiculous. He has no idea what he is doing with his technical managerial duties. This is a fact. Are you going to deny it? If so, fine, be in denial. If not, then just stop trying to defend him and give it a rest.

 

 

What exactly am I denying ? By your logic with everything but the starting pitching being lousy shouldn't the Sox be in last place ? I really don't understand why you're so outspoken in your hatred of Ozzie's managing. Clearly a manager who doesn't put his team in the best position to win combined with all the other ills that you mention would produce a very very bad team...

 

I stopped reading right there. They ARE a bad team. They are in a bad division. This is common knowledge. Move along, sir. Next.

Edited September 21, 2008 by TheBigHurt

[caulfield12]

"Dude, you're just not getting it. Man, and I thought I was a fan who lacked knowledge and insight. Wow.

 

Yeah, and once the team was done overachieving, Ozzie's mismanaging become quite apparent, didn't it? NOTHING you are saying is actual logic to the argument. All you are doing is rambling, changing the subject, comparing other managers, and throwing around irrelevant statistics. You presenting just about everything you can that's NOT relevant. I'll probably get in trouble for saying this, but you're like a desperate woman in an argument. You'll go on forever and ever and say nothing relevant, but never give up spouting the same meaningless babble because that's your nature. You're another statistic guy who thinks the statistics he's presenting have any relevance to Ozzie's inability as an in-game manager.

 

Not much point in arguing with you further. I'm beating a dead horse here. It's clear no "Ozzie defender" on this board can read or provide any solid argument. I don't see how you people can't see the truth. Ozzie makes f***ups so much it's ridiculous. He has no idea what he is doing with his technical managerial duties. This is a fact. Are you going to deny it? If so, fine, be in denial. If not, then just stop trying to defend him and give it a rest."

 

You can just wait for the White Sox to "choke" this week and then spend the rest of the off-season telling everyone that it's the manager, not the players, that need to be replaced. It's a fun hobby for some who have never even managed a Little League team or worked in professional baseball but think they know everything about the game.

 

I missed the memo from the White Sox where they hired you to do a comprehensive evaluation of the manager because you have insight or knowledge that no other Sox fans apparently possess about Ozzie Guillen. Therefore, I am forwarding this thread directly to the organization so Reinsdorf and KW can clearly see what a mistake they are making by continuing to grant a contract to Mr. Guillen, and that if only you were the manager, they would undoubtedly have won every AL Central title contested in the last decade with ease.

Edited September 21, 2008 by caulfield12

[knightni]

The last thing I want is for the Sox to choke. But, Ozzie seems to make really dumb decisions lately.

 

Defensive lineup, offensive batting order, bullpen selection, and that 3 day rest stunt. All have been poor choices lately.

 

I'm not denying that they've had success this year, but I think that the 3 day rest decision reeks of desperation.

 

 

[Lemon_44]

You do know the Sox have been in first place for just about the entire season, and have a 2.5 game lead with a week to go right?

 

The guy who brought front-runners for league MVP, and the ROY, (not to mention Floyd and Danks) should be on the hot seat huh?

this is the most logical post in the entire thread.

[Dick Allen]

for those holding onto the "2.5 game lead with 7 (possibly 8) games remaining"

 

 

 

if our next 3 opponents were, say, KC, Seattle, Cleveland, that 2.5 game lead actually means a lot more than it does right now

 

 

 

What? Wouldn't a 2 1/2 game lead mean more if you are counting the games in Minnesota losses? Also a 3 game lead in the loss column. If somehow the Sox have to play Detroit again, do you think there's a chance in hell the Tigers won't mail in a game that has made them cancel tee times? If anything a 2 1/2 game lead at this point means MORE than it would under your scenerio. And if the White Sox don't deserve to win, you're saying a team with a worse record at this point does? I think the Sox will shock the world and win at least 2 in Minnesota.

Edited September 21, 2008 by knightni

[TheBigHurt]

"Dude, you're just not getting it. Man, and I thought I was a fan who lacked knowledge and insight. Wow.

 

Yeah, and once the team was done overachieving, Ozzie's mismanaging become quite apparent, didn't it? NOTHING you are saying is actual logic to the argument. All you are doing is rambling, changing the subject, comparing other managers, and throwing around irrelevant statistics. You presenting just about everything you can that's NOT relevant. I'll probably get in trouble for saying this, but you're like a desperate woman in an argument. You'll go on forever and ever and say nothing relevant, but never give up spouting the same meaningless babble because that's your nature. You're another statistic guy who thinks the statistics he's presenting have any relevance to Ozzie's inability as an in-game manager.

 

Not much point in arguing with you further. I'm beating a dead horse here. It's clear no "Ozzie defender" on this board can read or provide any solid argument. I don't see how you people can't see the truth. Ozzie makes f***ups so much it's ridiculous. He has no idea what he is doing with his technical managerial duties. This is a fact. Are you going to deny it? If so, fine, be in denial. If not, then just stop trying to defend him and give it a rest."

 

You can just wait for the White Sox to "choke" this week and then spend the rest of the off-season telling everyone that it's the manager, not the players, that need to be replaced. It's a fun hobby for some who have never even managed a Little League team or worked in professional baseball but think they know everything about the game.

 

I missed the memo from the White Sox where they hired you to do a comprehensive evaluation of the manager because you have insight or knowledge that no other Sox fans apparently possess about Ozzie Guillen. Therefore, I am forwarding this thread directly to the organization so Reinsdorf and KW can clearly see what a mistake they are making by continuing to grant a contract to Mr. Guillen, and that if only you were the manager, they would undoubtedly have won every AL Central title contested in the last decade with ease.

 

Again, you're just repeating the same rubbish over and over (which I've already told you is untrue in EVERY post... how long will it take you to understand this?) and continued your illogical matinée by making it out to sound like I think I could manage better... more rubbish designed to escape the point. The point is OZZIE... not me, not the players, not your rambling. Now, I am NOT saying the players aren't at fault (apparentlly, to you, the players take ALL the blame and the manager is off the hook for all the terrible things he does which you STILL have not addressed). If you'd read my first post you'd know that. Wait... didn't you reply to that post? So did you forget are are you still just desperately trying to get the argument to go your way without any logic once again?

 

You just can't admit that ozzie is a bad in-game manager. That's fine with me, it doesn't matter because it's a FACT, and you can't argue facts, so you can be in denial, not address my points and ignore them all you want.

Edited September 21, 2008 by TheBigHurt

[jenksycat]

This board is like watching a schizophrenic person or Jay Mariotti.

 

After a win: people say how they want the playoffs (which we will now make obviously) to go down. After a loss: We need to do something about this horrible team. Ozzie needs to go, KW hasn't done s*** and needs a boot, this team is pathetic and should quit now.

 

always good for a laugh

[Disco72]

You just can't admit that ozzie is a bad in-game manager. That's fine with me, it doesn't matter because it's a FACT, and you can't argue facts, so you can be in denial, not address my points and ignore them all you want.

 

I have yet to see a single FACT supporting your opinion that Ozzie is a bad game manager. Others clearly disagree with you, it is getting tiresome seeing you attack other posters for trying to have a conversation on the issue with you when you see your opinion as fact.

[Disco72]

As for the main topic, I generally hate pitching guys on short rest, but with the 5th starter being very hit and miss, I'd rather try to win with our main horses. I would hate to miss the playoffs by 0.5 games because of yet another Richard or Broadway start. I know Kalapse posted stats on Javy on short rest, and they were fine. If there are any stats on the other guys that suggest the short rest is such a terrible idea, I haven't seen them (although I have not looked either). Clearly, it has not worked well so far, but the offense and bullpen are at least as much to blame as the short rest.

[TheBigHurt]

I have yet to see a single FACT supporting your opinion that Ozzie is a bad game manager. Others clearly disagree with you, it is getting tiresome seeing you attack other posters for trying to have a conversation on the issue with you when you see your opinion as fact.

 

I've mentioned them in EVERY POST, many other posters point them out daily. All you have to do is watch the games. Constant misjudgment in who to play in certain situations, taking pitchers out too early or leaving them in too late, not putting in his best defensive replacements in the late inning with small leads, not putting big hitters on with bases open and scrubs hitting behind them, putting cold hitters in important lineup spots, asking players to do things they are incapable of doing (this ESPECIALLY), etc. and much more. It happens so often it's obvious. If you think Ozzie is a good game manager, you aren't watching the games, or you simply lack baseball knowledge. There are plenty of KNOWLEDGEABLE fans here that agree with me.

 

Do I need to give direct examples now of these things? Are you still not getting it?

[fathom]

I agree Ozzie is a bad manager, but you can't claim that as a fact. An opinion is not a fact, period.

[TheBigHurt]

I agree Ozzie is a bad manager, but you can't claim that as a fact. An opinion is not a fact, period.

 

When the man does this at a consistent rate... what else could you say that WOULD make it a fact? What would have to happen to legitimately say FACT-WISE that the man has no idea what he's doing??? You have to draw the line somewhere. I certainly don't see how you can agree with it, which a lot of people are. That doesn't bother me, there's just no solid defense in his case.

[greg775]

You just can't admit that ozzie is a bad in-game manager. That's fine with me, it doesn't matter because it's a FACT, and you can't argue facts, so you can be in denial, not address my points and ignore them all you want.

 

He's terrible. He let Dwayne Wise pinch hit the other day. Oops ... Wise hit a grand slam.

 

I am not saying Ozzie is perfect. I'm saying after all his years in the big leagues, he really does know baseball. I think he's a good manager. That's all. He's a good manager. I really take exception to those who think he is a buffoon or a "bad" manager.

He's not a bad manager. I know opinions are opinions and I agree everyone has a right to an opinion. But I really think it is horses*** to say he is a "bad" manager. First of all he led us to the title (oh wait ... that was in spite of Ozzie I guess). Second of all, the guy f***ing knows baseball. I will argue to my death bed on that one. If you say Ozzie doesn't know baseball I believe you are a fool. Notice I did not say he was a great manager. I think he's a good manager.

Big Hurt ... seriously how can you say Ozzie "has no idea of what he is doing."

I respect your opinion that Oz sucks but my God you act like he's Terry Bevington. Ozzie Guillen is not a buffoon. My god.

 

p.s. Do you realize how many moves he must have made that WORKED in our 05 run? You just shake your head and say I'm living in the past. We lost one postseason game. You know how many of those games were close? Think of the moves he made in those games. I know ... when we win the moves are obvious. Bulls***. He's a good manager.

Edited September 22, 2008 by greg775

[ptatc]

When the man does this at a consistent rate... what else could you say that WOULD make it a fact? What would have to happen to legitimately say FACT-WISE that the man has no idea what he's doing??? You have to draw the line somewhere. I certainly don't see how you can agree with it, which a lot of people are. That doesn't bother me, there's just no solid defense in his case.

 

I would disagree that Ozzie is a bad manager. His team's have consistently won. He had a bad year last year, that is really the only one. There is more to being a good manager than in game decisions. Maybe he puts a guy in a position to see if he can handle it. Maybe he puts in a guy to boost his confidence. Maybe a guy just needs to take a day off . Maybe he needs to count on a player in the playoffs and doesn't want to sit him in "obvious stat situations." Who knows the reason? Guys in the clubhouse know more than we do. Baseball is more than what it can be reduced to in numbers. Ozzie needs to have the confidence and respect of his players. I've been in enough clubhouses to see this. Never take a manager's decision on face value in baseball.

 

He is never going to get them all right no manager does. Until Ozzie's teams begin to consistently lose, I'll have confidence in him.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I have yet to see a single FACT supporting your opinion that Ozzie is a bad game manager. Others clearly disagree with you, it is getting tiresome seeing you attack other posters for trying to have a conversation on the issue with you when you see your opinion as fact.

Thank you. Personal attacks are not necessary. Setting yourself up as this Master of

Logic and all who oppose you are clearly delusional ,misguided, and illogical doesn't help your credibility.

[jenksycat]

When the man does this at a consistent rate... what else could you say that WOULD make it a fact? What would have to happen to legitimately say FACT-WISE that the man has no idea what he's doing??? You have to draw the line somewhere. I certainly don't see how you can agree with it, which a lot of people are. That doesn't bother me, there's just no solid defense in his case.

 

More overreacting to a couple bad games. He has been manager for almost 5 seasons now, he owns: well over a .500 record, 1 bad season which you can't blame on him anyway, 2 90+ win seasons, 1 playoff berth that should have been/be 3, and 1 championship.

 

What constitutes a "good" manager in your eyes?

[BlackBetsy]

It's amazing how good managers look when their players perform on the field and amazing how bad they look when they don't.

 

Ozzie has made some bad moves that have worked out OK - playing Swisher against Lackey when Swish was 4 for 40 against him - and some good moves that went south because the player didn't perform. Boone Logan collapsed this year after a very very good start - hard to blame Ozzie for trotting him out a couple of times after he struggled to see if he could get past it. To Ozzie's credit, he understands the concept of cutting loose the folks that aren't performing past the period of normal slumps.

 

Hawk says he's the best he's seen in bullpen management. I tended to believe that in '05 and '06 when he eschewed Larussa-type overmanagement to trust his relievers vs. LH and RH. But when his bullpen went to crap on him, he did what most managers tend to do - get defensive and play matchups, because no one can criticize you for bringing in a LOOGY to face a LH. Of course, when the LOOGY is Boone Logan or Horacio Ramirez, you are better off going with a RHP that can actually pitch.

 

Ozzie's best feature probably is his ability to draw attention to himself and away from the players when things are going bad. It works a lot better than you think - how many articles have been written since 2004 hammering on any Sox players? Hardly any, compared to the articles criticizing guys like Fukudome, Mark Prior, Kerry Wood, etc. And that probably, on average, makes Sox players a bit happier and probably play a bit better and probably want to stay with the Sox a little bit more.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I stopped reading right there. They ARE a bad team. They are in a bad division. This is common knowledge. Move along, sir. Next.

 

There are 24 other teams who would love to be a bad team like us if we make the playoffs. Are you sure you're a Sox fan ? You sound like a Cub fan (maybe they fit your definition of a good team) who cannot argue his point without degrading the person that would dare choose to have an opinion opposite of theirs , that I always see where Cubs fans argue with Sox fans. I'm not even defending Ozzie so much as I am opposing how you present your argument. Its extremely arrogant when you present your opinion as fact and common knowledge. You sound like your girlfriend just broke up with you who probably found your superior attitude just as smug as I do.

 

There are plenty of knowledgeable Sox fans who agree with you that Ozzie isn't much of an in-game manager however they have the people skills to avoid sounding like a jackass.

Edited September 22, 2008 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[fathom]

More overreacting to a couple bad games. He has been manager for almost 5 seasons now, he owns: well over a .500 record, 1 bad season which you can't blame on him anyway, 2 90+ win seasons, 1 playoff berth that should have been/be 3, and 1 championship.

 

What constitutes a "good" manager in your eyes?

 

And why's that?

[greg775]

They ARE a bad team. They are in a bad division. This is common knowledge. Move along, sir. Next.

 

Common knowledge that the Sox are a bad team? No matter what happens in Minnie they were not a bad team this year. This was a Jackyll-Hyde team, skitzo, but not a bad team.

 

p.s. Please Ozzie, do not pitch Boone or Ramirez this series. If you do put them on the mound, it means we lose that game.

[jenksycat]

And why's that?

 

Why you can't blame the 72 win season on ozzie? Do i really need to point that out? Having 1 guy in the bullpen, 2 sometimes 3 decent starters, an entire team in a hitting slump, etc. How is any of those things his fault? Thats like saying "well if the pirates had a good manager they'd be contenders". If the team blows/underperforms theres only so much a manager can do.