Ozzie calls out Javy

[SoxFan562004]

The AB to Gomez where he got the end of the bat hit to LF summarizes Javy's bad pitching. He gets ahead of him and then tries to nibble on the outside part of the plate over and over again.

[Harry Chappas]

I give up.

 

I really liked Vazquez and defended him but he is a .500 pitcher in a career that has over 200 decisions.

 

This season showed me that he can pitch lights out when there is no pressure on him but on a good team he is a really nice number 5.

 

He is somehting like 11-14 with an ERA that is not impressive on the season.

 

Why Danks was pushed back and he put on short rest to pitch last night was a terrible baseball move from the delicate genius that is Ozzie Guillen.

Edited September 24, 2008 by Jenks Heat

[whitesoxfan101]

Javy has been a choker his entire career, and he showed why last night. He's pitched in plently of big games, and never got it done. Guys that have his stuff and only .500 records tend to be mentally weak though, so it's no surprise. It's a shame he is signed through 2010.

[fathom]

Javy has been a choker his entire career, and he showed why last night. He's pitched in plently of big games, and never got it done. Guys that have his stuff and only .500 records tend to be mentally weak though, so it's no surprise. It's a shame he is signed through 2010.

 

If the Sox fail to make the playoffs with Javy having a bad start at home vs the Indians, there is really no way they can bring him back next season.

[whitesoxfan101]

If the Sox fail to make the playoffs with Javy having a bad start at home vs the Indians, there is really no way they can bring him back next season.

 

What team is going to take on 2 years and 23 million dollars for an aging choker with a .500 lifetime record? We'd have to eat about half of the money to get rid of him IMO.

[Chisoxfn]

That was a dissapointing performance. Javy became his typical wussy self where he lived on the outer half of the plate and because of such anything that even remotely came over the middle got hammered (since a hitter had no worries about an inside pitch). Inside pitch, what is that?

 

God Javy pisses me off like no other. I swear I just don't get it. He gets so afraid and wets the bed because of it.

[Chisoxfn]

What team is going to take on 2 years and 23 million dollars for an aging choker with a .500 lifetime record? We'd have to eat about half of the money to get rid of him IMO.

I'll call BS on this. Tons of teams would take Javy Vazquez, even if he gave up 20 runs in his last outing (assuming he's healthy). Not only would the Sox be able to move him without eating his contract, they'd be able to get prospects in return. Sure he wet the bed but he still has plenty of value on the open market if the Sox did in fact want to trade him.

[Chisoxfn]

He was popping his fastball from 92-96. He had plenty on the ball. Of course that was in the first inning when he actually threw a couple of good fastballs.

IT was also the only inning he threw anything remotely close to the inner half of the plate.

[fathom]

What team is going to take on 2 years and 23 million dollars for an aging choker with a .500 lifetime record? We'd have to eat about half of the money to get rid of him IMO.

 

There's plenty of teams that will take him. He might be our most valuable asset this offseason on the market. His contract is damn good in this market. I could see a team like the Cardinals jumping at the chance to get him.

[fathom]

IT was also the only inning he threw anything remotely close to the inner half of the plate.

 

There's a belief in baseball that it's not the start on 3 days rest that hurts the pitcher the most...but rather it's the start after that start. Javy had absolutely no snap on his offspeed pitches, as he was having a hell of a time trying to keep the ball down. He never, ever pitches inside to righties.

[Leonard Zelig]

There's plenty of teams that will take him. He might be our most valuable asset this offseason on the market. His contract is damn good in this market. I could see a team like the Cardinals jumping at the chance to get him.

 

Hell yeah, Javy for Rasmus!

[Kyyle23]

There's a belief in baseball that it's not the start on 3 days rest that hurts the pitcher the most...but rather it's the start after that start. Javy had absolutely no snap on his offspeed pitches, as he was having a hell of a time trying to keep the ball down. He never, ever pitches inside to righties.

 

Well the first start he wet the bed too

[fathom]

Hell yeah, Javy for Rasmus!

 

I don't know what his contract is, but Javy for Troy Glaus would definitely be a KW move.

[scenario]

Here's the Inside Edge report on his game.

 

[whitesoxfan101]

I'll call BS on this. Tons of teams would take Javy Vazquez, even if he gave up 20 runs in his last outing (assuming he's healthy). Not only would the Sox be able to move him without eating his contract, they'd be able to get prospects in return. Sure he wet the bed but he still has plenty of value on the open market if the Sox did in fact want to trade him.

 

You are almost for sure right, but as a guy who sees all of Javy's starts, I wouldn't trade s*** for him. Then again, people are desperate for pitching. If you and fathom are right (and you probably are) about Javy's value, we almost have to trade him this offseason IMO. Other than eat innings, he hasn't done much for us other than be mediocre and choke in big games.

[scenario]

You are almost for sure right, but as a guy who sees all of Javy's starts, I wouldn't trade s*** for him. Then again, people are desperate for pitching. If you and fathom are right (and you probably are) about Javy's value, we almost have to trade him this offseason IMO. Other than eat innings, he hasn't done much for us other than be mediocre and choke in big games.

 

Please help me understand something about the "big game" theory.

 

This is the link to his 2008 season game log with all of his pitching performances.

 

Which ones other than last night are the "big" games?

 

 

[fathom]

Please help me understand something about the "big game" theory.

 

This is the link to his 2008 season game log with all of his pitching performances.

 

Which ones other than last night are the "big" games?

 

Does it matter now? After Ozzie's comments and Javy's bed-crapping performance, this label will stick with him for the rest of his career.

[whitesoxfan101]

Please help me understand something about the "big game" theory.

 

This is the link to his 2008 season game log with all of his pitching performances.

 

Which ones other than last night are the "big" games?

 

He had one start and 2 relief appearances for the Yankees in the 2004 playoffs, and was crushed in all 3 games (including giving up a grand slam to Johnny Damon, the signature moment of the Red Sox comeback). He had a pre all star game ERA of 3.56 that year and a post all star game ERA of 6.92. He also went 0-6 in his last 10 starts for the White Sox in 2006, and we were in that race obviously. Combine that with his two most recent starts this season, and you get the "choker" label.

Edited September 24, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[Leonard Zelig]

I don't know what his contract is, but Javy for Troy Glaus would definitely be a KW move.

 

Glaus has one year left, not sure how much.

[fathom]

Glaus has one year left, not sure how much.

 

Well, might as well start to pencil him into our lineup.

 

2b- Figgins

SS- Ramirez

lf- Quentin

rf- Dye

DH- Thome

1b- Konerko

3b- Glaus

cf- Swisher

c- AJP

 

We will hit 250 homers

Edited September 24, 2008 by fathom

[Balta1701]

I don't know what his contract is, but Javy for Troy Glaus would definitely be a KW move.

How many mitchell report guys has KW went for?

[scenario]

Does it matter now? After Ozzie's comments and Javy's bed-crapping performance, this label will stick with him for the rest of his career.

 

Of course it matters. Are you trying to say that facts don't matter... it's only opinions that matter?

 

If someone says he's a big game choker then they should be able to point out the big games... unless they're just venting which I can understand because last night was ugly.

 

So... what are the BIG games?

 

For example: on August 17th, when we were tied with the Twins and playing the A's on the west coast... and Javy went 8 innings, and gave up only 4 hits to help the Sox take the series and stay in first place. Was that a "big game"?

 

Or when we had just lost two games in Cleveland the beginning of this month... and we were in danger of being swept... and Javy went 6 innings, gave up 2 runs on 5 hits, struck out 5 and walked 1. We started that day with 1/2 game lead over the Twins. Was that a "big game" or not?

 

 

[fathom]

How many mitchell report guys has KW went for?

 

Brian Roberts was heavily pursued, was he not?

[whitesoxfan101]

Of course it matters. Are you trying to say that facts don't matter... it's only opinions that matter?

 

If someone says he's a big game choker then they should be able to point out the big games... unless they're just venting which I can understand because last night was ugly.

 

So... what are the BIG games?

 

For example: on August 17th, when we were tied with the Twins and playing the A's on the west coast... and Javy went 8 innings, and gave up only 4 hits to help the Sox take the series and stay in first place. Was that a "big game"?

 

Or when we had just lost two games in Cleveland the beginning of this month... and we were in danger of being swept... and Javy went 6 innings, gave up 2 runs on 5 hits, struck out 5 and walked 1. We started that day with 1/2 game lead over the Twins. Was that a "big game" or not?

 

Read my last post in this thread before this. I am not saying it's proof that Javy is a choker, but it's the reason that a lot of people like me think he is.

[fathom]

Of course it matters. Are you trying to say that facts don't matter... it's only opinions that matter?

 

If someone says he's a big game choker then they should be able to point out the big games... unless they're just venting which I can understand because last night was ugly.

 

So... what are the BIG games?

 

I'll let someone else handle this argument (as there's been so many made in this thread), as I'm so tired of focusing on Javy when the offense deserves more of the blame for recent struggles.

Edited September 24, 2008 by fathom