winninguglyin83 Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Sox put nobody in the Top 20 in Baseball America's list of the top prospects in the South Atlantic League. Nobody from Kannapolis. Another sign of our sub-par scouting and player development. It's one of the biggest problems plaguing the organization. Here is the list. It is packed with five Braves. SOUTH ATLANTIC LEAGUE TOP 20 PROSPECTS 1. Madison Bumgarner, lhp, Augusta (Giants) 2. Jason Heyward, of, Rome (Braves) 3. Mike Stanton, of, Greensboro (Marlins) 4. Jhoulys Chacin, rhp, Asheville (Rockies) 5. Matt Dominguez, 3b, Greensboro (Marlins) 6. Angel Villalona, 1b, Augusta (Giants) 7. Jesus Montero, c, Charleston (Yankees) 8. Austin Romine, c, Charleston (Yankees) 9. Nick Noonan, 2b, Augusta (Giants) 10. Freddie Freeman, 1b, Rome (Braves) 11. Michael Burgess, of, Hagerstown (Nationals) 12. Che-Hsuan Lin, of, Greenville (Red Sox) 13. Cole Rohrbough, lhp, Rome (Braves) 14. Jeff Locke, lhp, Rome (Braves) 15. Michael Taylor, of, Lakewood (Phillies) 16. Alex Cobb, rhp, Columbus (Rays) 17. Darin Holcomb, 3b, Asheville (Rockies) 18. Caleb Gindl, of, West Virginia (Brewers) 19. Ryan Kalish, of, Greenville (Red Sox) 20. Cody Johnson, of, Rome (Braves) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 I take it Danks and Beckman were left off because of their short time there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted September 25, 2008 Author Share Posted September 25, 2008 yes. They played less than three weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Sep 25, 2008 -> 10:43 AM) Sox put nobody in the Top 20 in Baseball America's list of the top prospects in the South Atlantic League. Nobody from Kannapolis. Another sign of our sub-par scouting and player development. It's one of the biggest problems plaguing the organization. No it isn't. We had a group of players in rookie ball last year that completely skipped Kannapolis this year and went to Winston-Salem instead... and helped lead W-S to the playoffs. (the second year in a row that this core group of players went to the playoffs in their respective leagues). Is that a sign of sub-par scouting? Also, Anthony Carter probably would have made this list if he hadn't been promoted at mid-season. He was tearing up the Sally. Charlie Shirek probably would be on here too if he hadn't spent some time on the DL this year. I think we had several other talented players at Kanny this year who just didn't play there long enough to qualify for this list. So don't read too much into it. I am impressed with the Braves ability to keep loading the pipeline though. The reason they had so many talented players in low-A all year is because they were loaded in high-A and AA too. Their Carolina League team lost in the finals this year, but they were the best team in the league. Their AA team won the title in the Southern League. Can't help but be impressed by that type of depth and success. Edited September 25, 2008 by scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False Alarm Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 QUOTE (scenario @ Sep 25, 2008 -> 05:00 PM) No it isn't. We had a group of players in rookie ball last year that completely skipped Kannapolis this year and went to Winston-Salem instead... and helped lead W-S to the playoffs. (the second year in a row that this core group of players went to the playoffs in their respective leagues). Is that a sign of sub-par scouting? Also, Anthony Carter probably would have made this list if he hadn't been promoted at mid-season. He was tearing up the Sally. Charlie Shirek probably would be on here too if he hadn't spent some time on the DL this year. I think we had several other talented players at Kanny this year who just didn't play there long enough to qualify for this list. So don't read too much into it. I am impressed with the Braves ability to keep loading the pipeline though. The reason they had so many talented players in low-A all year is because they were loaded in high-A and AA too. Their Carolina League team lost in the finals this year, but they were the best team in the league. Their AA team won the title in the Southern League. Can't help but be impressed by that type of depth and success. supposedly, according to the print edition of BA, we have four prospects on the carolina league's top 20 list. (btw, we supposedly have none on the southern league's, not even poreda.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted September 25, 2008 Author Share Posted September 25, 2008 Who are the four? Shelby? Poreda? Allen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted September 25, 2008 Author Share Posted September 25, 2008 QUOTE (scenario @ Sep 25, 2008 -> 04:00 PM) No it isn't. We had a group of players in rookie ball last year that completely skipped Kannapolis this year and went to Winston-Salem instead... and helped lead W-S to the playoffs. (the second year in a row that this core group of players went to the playoffs in their respective leagues). Is that a sign of sub-par scouting? Also, Anthony Carter probably would have made this list if he hadn't been promoted at mid-season. He was tearing up the Sally. Charlie Shirek probably would be on here too if he hadn't spent some time on the DL this year. I think we had several other talented players at Kanny this year who just didn't play there long enough to qualify for this list. So don't read too much into it. I am impressed with the Braves ability to keep loading the pipeline though. The reason they had so many talented players in low-A all year is because they were loaded in high-A and AA too. Their Carolina League team lost in the finals this year, but they were the best team in the league. Their AA team won the title in the Southern League. Can't help but be impressed by that type of depth and success. YES IT IS A PROBLEM. We've wasted so many picks on guys like Borchard, Hummel, McCullough, Broadway, Fields, Ring and Honel. Not much there. So we have a few guys at the Carolina league. We have nothing at Charlotte and not much at Birmingham. There's a reason our farm system is rated in the bottom 10 in major league baseball. It blows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Sep 25, 2008 -> 07:54 PM) YES IT IS A PROBLEM. We've wasted so many picks on guys like Borchard, Hummel, McCullough, Broadway, Fields, Ring and Honel. Not much there. So we have a few guys at the Carolina league. We have nothing at Charlotte and not much at Birmingham. There's a reason our farm system is rated in the bottom 10 in major league baseball. It blows. Did you not notice that we have guys who are on the rise? Next year Birmingham will have a lot of the players from W-S resulting in a crapload more talent, plus Poreda has been moving up alot. There is no doubt we wasted years of drafting and developing consistent, productive talent, but to say that we have none or that we wont have any next year is a joke. Just from the last two drafts we have had an influx of talent in the lower part of the system and its making its way up the chain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Sep 25, 2008 -> 05:54 PM) There's a reason our farm system is rated in the bottom 10 in major league baseball. It blows. We made some bad picks (who hasn't) and we traded away alot of people. That's why the well is dry at upper levels. But people talk about all of picks sucking... and that suggesting our scouts and development people were all horrible.... it's simply NOT true. Look up Oakland's farm system ratings. Not bad. And who are 3 of their top 10 prospects? Gio Gonzalez, Aaron Cunningham, and Chris Carter. There are people now saying that Carter is THE best player in their system. All guys we drafted. Add Ryan Sweeney to that mix... and DLS. Would our farm system ALOT look better if we kept all those guys rather than trade them? Sure. But we didn't. Bottom line... the trades thinned out the talent making our system (in some people's eyes) look much worse than it is. We had a good draft in 2007. Then we brought in Buddy and a bunch of new scouts. We had a very good draft in 2008. One more good draft next year and the system is pretty close to being "normal" again. I feel pretty confident in the direction things are going. Edited September 26, 2008 by scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False Alarm Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Sep 25, 2008 -> 11:06 PM) Who are the four? Shelby? Poreda? Allen? this is secondhand, but the rankings i saw were poreda (6), allen (14), ely (17), and texeira (19). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (False Alarm @ Sep 26, 2008 -> 09:32 AM) this is secondhand, but the rankings i saw were poreda (6), allen (14), ely (17), and texeira (19). Hmmm.... I have a hard time imagining Shelby wouldn't be included in the Carolina League list. I've seen several comments from Carolina League managers where he was called the most exciting offensive player in the league... a very fast player with power. Picture a 5'10 guy 180lb. guy who led the league in slugging percentage over some other MLB teams best prospects... and stole 33 bases. A few more stats showing where Shelby ranked in the Carolina League: 1st in slugging percentage (.510) 2nd in doubles (37) 3rd in total bases (228) 3rd in stolen bases (33) 4th in triples (7) 5th in OPS (.841) 5th in runs scored (81) 6th in league batting average (.295) 6th in RBIs (80) Edited September 26, 2008 by scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False Alarm Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 QUOTE (scenario @ Sep 26, 2008 -> 02:38 PM) Hmmm.... I have a hard time imagining Shelby wouldn't be included in the Carolina League list. I've seen several comments from Carolina League managers where he was called the most exciting offensive player in the league... a very fast player with power. Picture a 5'10 guy 180lb. guy who led the league in slugging percentage over some other MLB teams best prospects... and stole 33 bases. A few more stats showing where Shelby ranked in the Carolina League: 1st in slugging percentage (.510) 2nd in doubles (37) 3rd in total bases (228) 3rd in stolen bases (33) 4th in triples (7) 5th in OPS (.841) 5th in runs scored (81) 6th in league batting average (.295) 6th in RBIs (80) he ain't included. the official list: http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prosp...008/266931.html i'd imagine the omission had to do with his crappy plate discipline. nearly a 1:5 bb/k and pretty bad OBP. if he was a bit younger maybe they'd overlook it. he ain't old for the league (age-22 season), but he ain't extremely young either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 Interesting. I think you're right. He's 6-12 months older than most of the other guys on the list... even though he's below the league average age. That's OK. Advantage us IMO. If Shelby is one of the league's best players and didn't make the list... hey I can live that. Makes our situation look that much better. He's been on a normal progression (not held back or repeated any levels). The exciting part IMO is if you consider that these players should all come up about the same time... in 2-3 years. (In Poreda's case probably earlier). So, next year at AA... 2010 in AAA. 2011 with the WhiteSox. Danks and Beckham should be coming up in similar time-frame. That's a nice pool of talent on the not so distant horizon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 BHam shut out in the southern league as well....our farm system rocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (daa84 @ Oct 1, 2008 -> 02:51 PM) BHam shut out in the southern league as well....our farm system rocks So... none of our AA guys made it to the top of the prospect beauty pageant. Doesn't mean there wasn't any talent there. Birmingham had the lowest team ERA in the Southern League and made the playoffs. How horrible... they must suck. Keep in mind Clayton Richard started out there this year and played well enough to make the Southern League All-Star team, the Olympic Team, and get promoted to the Sox. And several other guys did well enough to get promoted to Charlotte at mid-season. Edited October 1, 2008 by scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 There are 2 pitchers Id like to keep in eye on in AA in Harrel and Cassel. Anyways, AA is going to recieve a lot of talent next year with the core of our high A prospects coming up and possibly Danks/Beckham at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False Alarm Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 (edited) So... none of our AA guys made it to the top of the prospect beauty pageant. Doesn't mean there wasn't any talent there. Birmingham had the lowest team ERA in the Southern League and made the playoffs. How horrible... they must suck. Keep in mind Clayton Richard started out there this year and played well enough to make the Southern League All-Star team, the Olympic Team, and get promoted to the Sox. And several other guys did well enough to get promoted to Charlotte at mid-season. i think it's just a matter of our lacking high-ceiling talent, scenario. yeah, clayton richard had a great season and looks like a major-leaguer. justin cassel might be too. but they're both 25 and get by on fringy stuff, so they're less likely to turn into stars. and these types of lists weigh potential star power real heavily. it ain't like we got no talent at birmingham. some of our guys who missed the list are almost certain to be useful MLBers while of course some of the guys on the list will bust completely. but the talented guys we do have in AA seem far less likely to turn into impact guys. when your ceiling is "solid regular" or "#4 SP," it's tough to justify placing you ahead of "future all star" when ranking prospects. all that said, i don't see how aaron poreda doesn't make this list. even considering park effects, poreda's younger than james mcdonald, wade davis, and jacob mcgee, and he's got comparable (or better) numbers. mcgee even had tommy john i think! and by all accounts poreda's stuff backs up the performance and his secondary stuff did develop some. weird. Edited October 1, 2008 by False Alarm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 (edited) I agree falsealarm. I'm not trying to suggest that we have boatloads of talent in the upper minors. It's pretty obvious that we don't because we traded away our best talent... most of which is sitting in the Oakland A's system right now. (3 of Oakland's top 10 prospects are former WhiteSox.) But I just feel compelled to respond when posters suggest our farm system sucks because we don't have guys on top 20 lists. BTW, Cassel isn't 25. He just turned 24 in late September. So... he'll spend a whole season in AAA next year at 24 years old. And Lucas Harrell just turned 23 mid-summer. I think Poreda didn't make it because he was listed as a top prospect in the Carolina League. Edited October 2, 2008 by scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 QUOTE (scenario @ Oct 1, 2008 -> 06:30 PM) I think Poreda didn't make it because he was listed as a top prospect in the Carolina League. I thought so too, but in the article they state that he was one of the prospects that just missed out because the list is so talented. Pretty stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False Alarm Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 QUOTE (scenario @ Oct 2, 2008 -> 01:30 AM) I agree falsealarm. I'm not trying to suggest that we have boatloads of talent in the upper minors. It's pretty obvious that we don't because we traded away our best talent... most of which is sitting in the Oakland A's system right now. (3 of Oakland's top 10 prospects are former WhiteSox.) But I just feel compelled to respond when posters suggest our farm system sucks because we don't have guys on top 20 lists. BTW, Cassel isn't 25. He just turned 24 in late September. So... he'll spend a whole season in AAA next year at 24 years old. And Lucas Harrell just turned 23 mid-summer. I think Poreda didn't make it because he was listed as a top prospect in the Carolina League. my bad on cassel. keeping my fingers crossed for harrell but these injury problems've been tough the past couple years. poreda was absolutely eligible. they list guys in multiple leagues when it suits them. poreda even pitched more innings in AA than hi-A IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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