Carlos Gomez

[bigruss]

Yeah, the Twins got back a piece of crap for the best pitcher in baseball. Good point.

Yea, they might have. Hes full of potential, but has yet to use it at any level yet. Just because the Twins traded for him doesnt mean he is god as some of you are making him out to be. Many scouts were starting to sour on him before he was traded because they kept thinking that one of these years he would produce like he could, but still hasnt.

[Dick Allen]

Carlos Gomez is awful at baseball. Stop trying to sugarcoat him into any sort of a talent. He has none. Any player who can't post a .800 OPS in the minors has no chance of ever being a useful Major League hitter.

Robin Ventura didn't. Carlton Fisk did in low A ball, in 195 AB, but didn't after that. Jason Varitek never did. The only time Brian Roberts ever did was a 29 AB stint in rookie ball. Put things into perspective. Gomez is 9 months older than the latest White Sox #1 pick. He still hit .260. Stole 30 bases. Maybe that's not useful to you, but for a 22 year old its not bad. His OBP is .014 lower than Alexei Ramirez. It obviously needs some work, but he's only 22 with a ton of talent. I don't think he's as good as Hawk says he is, but he's certtainly a lot better than Jerry Owens.

Edited September 28, 2008 by Dick Allen

[almagest]

Robin Ventura didn't. Carlton Fisk did in low A ball, in 195 AB, but didn't after that. Jason Varitek never did. The only time Brian Roberts ever did was a 29 AB stint in rookie ball. Put things into perspective. Gomez is 9 months older than the latest White Sox #1 pick. He still hit .260. Stole 30 bases. Maybe that's not useful to you, but for a 22 year old its not bad. His OBP is .014 lower than Alexei Ramirez. It obviously needs some work, but he's only 22 with a ton of talent. I don't think he's as good as Hawk says he is, but he's certtainly a lot better than Jerry Owens.

You can cherry-pick former and current player stats all you want, but ALL of the players you mentioned had seasons in college, the minors, Cuba, and/or the majors early in their careers that justified their hype. Nothing Gomez has done so far in 5 years of professional baseball has merited any recognition. He's had a couple of decent minor league seasons, has a negative runs contributed value (-.145 MLVr), and is overall playing at replacement level (0.6 VORP) in the majors. He needs to vastly improve on his contact rate, his selectivity at the plate, and he needs to start hitting for more power before he comes close to the hype given to him as a prospect, and by himself. That's a pretty tall order, and lots of players with as much or more ability as him can't do that, so what makes him worth such a vehement defense?

[Dick Allen]

You can cherry-pick former and current player stats all you want, but ALL of the players you mentioned had seasons in college, the minors, Cuba, and/or the majors early in their careers that justified their hype. Nothing Gomez has done so far in 5 years of professional baseball has merited any recognition. He's had a couple of decent minor league seasons, has a negative runs contributed value (-.145 MLVr), and is overall playing at replacement level (0.6 VORP) in the majors. He needs to vastly improve on his contact rate, his selectivity at the plate, and he needs to start hitting for more power before he comes close to the hype given to him as a prospect, and by himself. That's a pretty tall order, and lots of players with as much or more ability as him can't do that, so what makes him worth such a vehement defense?

Considering the post I was answering included this:

 

Any player who can't post a .800 OPS in the minors has no chance of ever being a useful Major League hitter.

 

Why is it "cherry-picking" when I find 3 off the top of my head? Wouldn't just 1 suffice?

[almagest]

Considering the post I was answering included this:

 

Any player who can't post a .800 OPS in the minors has no chance of ever being a useful Major League hitter.

 

Why is it "cherry-picking" when I find 3 off the top of my head? Wouldn't just 1 suffice?

Strawman. I never said a player who didn't post an .800 OPS in the minors had no chance of being a useful major league hitter. I said there's no reason to hype a guy who never posted an .800 OPS in the minors, because he hasn't come close to realizing the potential that made him a high-ranked prospect. You also continually miss the point that the players you mentioned have ALL had success either in college, Cuba, the minors, or very early in their major league careers. Carlos Gomez has had none of this so far.

[Dick Allen]

Strawman. I never said a player who didn't post an .800 OPS in the minors had no chance of being a useful major league hitter. I said there's no reason to hype a guy who never posted an .800 OPS in the minors, because he hasn't come close to realizing the potential that made him a high-ranked prospect. You also continually miss the point that the players you mentioned have ALL had success either in college, Cuba, the minors, or very early in their major league careers. Carlos Gomez has had none of this so far.

Please read the post I responded to. It wasn't even yours. I copy and pasted the quote in my answer. Then you tell me I'm cherry picking. The post said nobody. I mentioned a few off my head. I will say this, for a guy who never has had success and never will, he's pretty highly coveted around baseball. For a guy who never will have any success he sure did look pretty good last Thursday a game where if the White Sox won, they wouldn't have to bother with today or tomorrow. He's 22 years old. You think he sucks and always will, I think he'll turn into a good ballplayer and has already contributed. Why don't we leave it at that?

Edited September 29, 2008 by Dick Allen

[almagest]

Please read the post I responded to. It wasn't even yours. I copy and pasted the quote in my answer. Then you tell me I'm cherry picking. The post said nobody. I mentioned a few off my head. I will say this, for a guy who never has had success and never will, he's pretty highly coveted around baseball. For a guy who never will have any success he sure did look pretty good last Thursday a game where if the White Sox won, they wouldn't have to bother with today or tomorrow. He's 22 years old. You think he sucks and always will, I think he'll turn into a good ballplayer and has already contributed. Why don't we leave it at that?

You continually miss the point. I don't think he sucks and always will. He sucks this year, and has had a mediocre minor league career. I don't see what about this means he'll become Rickey Henderson II.

[Dick Allen]

You continually miss the point. I don't think he sucks and always will. He sucks this year, and has had a mediocre minor league career. I don't see what about this means he'll become Rickey Henderson II.

You stated this:

And no, I wouldn't want him on the Sox. He's all attitude, no ability.

 

You constantly harp on his performance and say he has no ability. Your words. I also never said he would be Rickey Henderson II. That was Hawk, I think he be below that. All I said was Jerry Owens couldn't hold his jock and you won't change my mind.

[almagest]

You stated this:

And no, I wouldn't want him on the Sox. He's all attitude, no ability.

 

You constantly harp on his performance and say he has no ability. Your words. I also never said he would be Rickey Henderson II. That was Hawk, I think he be below that. All I said was Jerry Owens couldn't hold his jock and you won't change my mind.

His performance is mediocre. All I've seen from him is speed and attitude, with nothing so far in his entire career to back it up. Maybe Owens can't hold his jock potential-wise, but potential means nothing if he hasn't backed it up with performance yet, and most assuredly has a long way to go to live up to it.