These two things have to be said

[DonkeyKongerko]

Plenty of station-to-station offenses with bad chemistry have won divisions and even world championships. Even the Yankees of a few years ago used to do it and regularly pound better Twins teams in the playoffs.

 

For whatever reason, Sox are just a horrible road team with the ridiculous exception of 2005. I still don't understand that season.

[hi8is]

poop

[fathom]

Ozzie sat on his ass waiting for the 3 run homer this series. I can't remember the last time a Sox player had a clutch homer in Minnesota. There were a few times where he had someone like Wise or OC on first base with no outs, and he didn't put any plays on. It just seemed like the Sox had their ass kicked in terms of scouting this series. I was impressed when Gardy called an 0-2 pitch out when the Sox had a runner on 1st with 2 outs. Even though the runner didn't try and steal, all Sox fans know that is Ozzie's favorite time to have a runner take off. Also, why was Jermaine Dye playing every hitter on the warning track in right field. At that place, any ball hit with authority will be a homer over the short porch.

[scenario]

The Twins were a better team this week.

 

 

[Yoda]

Plenty of station-to-station offenses with bad chemistry have won divisions and even world championships. Even the Yankees of a few years ago used to do it and regularly pound better Twins teams in the playoffs.

 

For whatever reason, Sox are just a horrible road team with the ridiculous exception of 2005. I still don't understand that season.

 

What is there to understand?

 

You had player's like Cotts, Politte, and Hermanson who had career year's! Now where are they?

 

Not to mention that no one knew who or what Jenks offered. The bullpen along with the 4 front man were enough to support a well built team with chemistry. Needless to say, Ozzie ball was in existence at that time.

[chw42]

What is there to understand?

 

You had player's like Cotts, Politte, and Hermanson who had career year's! Now where are they?

 

Not to mention that no one knew who or what Jenks offered. The bullpen along with the 4 front man were enough to support a well built team with chemistry. Needless to say, Ozzie ball was in existence at that time.

 

Ozzie ball is execution ball. That's what this team lacks a lot of.

[fathom]

Ozzie ball is execution ball. That's what this team lacks a lot of.

 

Ozzie ball is a freaking myth.

[chw42]

Ozzie ball is a freaking myth.

 

Ozzie ball is playing the game the right way. Hitting to the opposite field, bunting, hit and runs. Ozzie hasn't had much of that for the past 3 years. Not because he doesn't want to (at times), but because his core players consist of Jim Thome, Paul Konerko, A.J. Pierzynski, and Jermaine Dye. Four players who are way below average in speed. He didn't even have a true leadoff hitter this season.

 

The White Sox won in 05 because of home runs. That's more than true. However, if you have a team who hits 200 home runs, that's going to happen. Konerko and Dye were both good power hitters. Everett wasn't bad either. But when you had a speed burner with an above average OBP and a two hitter with the ability to move runners over, things will obviously be much much better. We executed in 05. Regardless of the way we executed, we got the big hit, we got the crucial runs. We hit sac flys, we got runners in from 3rd with less than 2 outs. We hit much better with RISP and 2 outs. We've been abysmal in all those categories this season.

[scenario]

Ozzie ball is a freaking myth.

 

Well... kind of....

 

That year we were near the top of MLB in stolen bases, sacrifices, and bunt base hits. And we hit for power.

 

So, it was difficult to categorize the team as small ball or power-ball... and so a different label was given.

 

That's why the myth won't seem to die. Because that team did not fit into a single box.

 

 

[Rex Kickass]

So I guess the question remains, if what we did in 2005 worked for us so well, why has both Ozzie and the team in general moved away from that approach?

[Balta1701]

So I guess the question remains, if what we did in 2005 worked for us so well, why has both Ozzie and the team in general moved away from that approach?

Because we haven't been able to duplicate the 2005 pitching performances.

[southsider2k5]

So I guess the question remains, if what we did in 2005 worked for us so well, why has both Ozzie and the team in general moved away from that approach?

 

The dirty secret is that they have been trying to for a leadoff man for a couple of years now, ever since Pods got hurt and worthless. Kenny has tried trading for a couple of guys, but it hasn't worked out. Instead of standing pat and doing nothing he has made whatever incremental improvements he could, and the guys available just happened to be mostly plodding powerhitters. Its not like Kenny has no clue we are weak at the top of the order, but knowing it, and getting a deal done are two different things.

[scenario]

So I guess the question remains, if what we did in 2005 worked for us so well, why has both Ozzie and the team in general moved away from that approach?

 

I think the Sox believed that they might be able to duplicate it this season if Owens played the Podsednik role and leadoff, with OC batting second.

 

I think that WAS the plan.

 

Owen's injury along with Quentin's emergence changed the dynamics of the lineup. Then they had to justify the Swisher acquisition by moving him to center... then jury-rig the top of the lineup to adjust for these changes... and there we are.

 

I dare say if KW thought that Quentin would really turn out as well as he did that we may not have made the Swisher trade.... which I think was sort of a desperation "we did something" move after we couldn't sign Hunter.

[jenksycat]

So I guess the question remains, if what we did in 2005 worked for us so well, why has both Ozzie and the team in general moved away from that approach?

 

He hasn't, its just the guys brought in haven't worked. Do you really think people expected Cotts/Pollite/Jenks etc would all be monsters out of the pen?

 

Its all about luck in the end. We got career years out of our starting 5 and bullpen. Solid defense and solid offense, it all came together for about 150 games. Imagine the 2008 White Sox with even career averages for Thome/PK/Swish in the beginning of the season. We'd be up 10 games right now.

[greg775]

Ozzie and Kenny Ball is hit it over the wall ball.

[MO2005]

I don't understand it either...2005 we had this grinder, get to your head type of approach like the Twins do..Podsednik leads off with a walk or single..Iguchi moves him over...Then Dye or Rowand would get him in...We had great execution in 2005 because we got to the pitcher's head and had good pitches to hit..Remember in 2005 we had like that unbelievable start with scoring first and winning remember? Guillen was in his 2nd year and I'm not saying he is not doing a good job now, but he has become just an a**hole..His Mike North Show vent, the Jay Mariotti thing, the Sean Tracey meltdown, etc. etc. I know it was funny and entertaining, but I remember in 2006 after that Mariotti thing was when the Whitesox fell apart. They were like 30 over .500, then tumbled to the finish line. In my opinion going out on a limb, we have to get rid of Guillen (which won't happen), trade Konerko, Fields (we don't need another guy in the lineup who will strikeout 150 a year), let Griffey walk, and trade Vazquez. The Sox have like the fifth largest payroll so instead of paying these old guys, pay for some guys who are feared! Get a manager in here that is hardnosed, but like Gardenhire, is respected. I don't think a lot of players respect him the way other managers like Francona, Torre, LaRussa, etc are respected. Trade Konerko and Fields for Figgins, then sign him to a deal to lead off and play 3rd. Sign Hudson or someone with some patience at the plate to play 2nd. Move Ramirez to SS. In center field I go with BA because of his great defense. Then give everything we got to spend this summer on CC Sabathia (longshot)...A guy who goes out every fifth day and we know can win us a game like yesterday. The bullpen was good the first half because our starters were also pitching well, then they imploded because our starters gave up runs and the pressure was put on them! Lineup next year looks like this:

 

Figgins

Hudson

Quentin

Dye

Thome

Swisher

Pierzynski

Anderson

Ramirez

 

This kind of has the same taste as 05 but probably a more finesse team. The only big strikeout guys are dye, thome, anderson...3 versus the 6-7 we have now in the lineup...

Speed at the bottom...then keep Owens, Wise..Getz..utility for speed..this team would be a 95 win team..giving the confidence to the pitching knowing we can manufacture runs!

 

 

 

[caulfield12]

I don't understand it either...2005 we had this grinder, get to your head type of approach like the Twins do..Podsednik leads off with a walk or single..Iguchi moves him over...Then Dye or Rowand would get him in...We had great execution in 2005 because we got to the pitcher's head and had good pitches to hit..Remember in 2005 we had like that unbelievable start with scoring first and winning remember? Guillen was in his 2nd year and I'm not saying he is not doing a good job now, but he has become just an a**hole..His Mike North Show vent, the Jay Mariotti thing, the Sean Tracey meltdown, etc. etc. I know it was funny and entertaining, but I remember in 2006 after that Mariotti thing was when the Whitesox fell apart. They were like 30 over .500, then tumbled to the finish line. In my opinion going out on a limb, we have to get rid of Guillen (which won't happen), trade Konerko, Fields (we don't need another guy in the lineup who will strikeout 150 a year), let Griffey walk, and trade Vazquez. The Sox have like the fifth largest payroll so instead of paying these old guys, pay for some guys who are feared! Get a manager in here that is hardnosed, but like Gardenhire, is respected. I don't think a lot of players respect him the way other managers like Francona, Torre, LaRussa, etc are respected. Trade Konerko and Fields for Figgins, then sign him to a deal to lead off and play 3rd. Sign Hudson or someone with some patience at the plate to play 2nd. Move Ramirez to SS. In center field I go with BA because of his great defense. Then give everything we got to spend this summer on CC Sabathia (longshot)...A guy who goes out every fifth day and we know can win us a game like yesterday. The bullpen was good the first half because our starters were also pitching well, then they imploded because our starters gave up runs and the pressure was put on them! Lineup next year looks like this:

 

Figgins

Hudson

Quentin

Dye

Thome

Swisher

Pierzynski

Anderson

Ramirez

 

This kind of has the same taste as 05 but probably a more finesse team. The only big strikeout guys are dye, thome, anderson...3 versus the 6-7 we have now in the lineup...

Speed at the bottom...then keep Owens, Wise..Getz..utility for speed..this team would be a 95 win team..giving the confidence to the pitching knowing we can manufacture runs!

 

It wasn't the run-in with Mariotti, we actually played remarkably well for a couple of weeks after that incident, and have usually done the same thing when the focus has been directly on Ozzie (and not on the clubhouse, like it is now...Swisher, OC).

 

The 2006 team just couldn't sustain that offense the entire season, Jenks was hurt and ineffective the final two months and the pitching started to wear down or disintegrate (with the notable exception of Garcia's last two starts when we were essentially out of it).

 

I don't think the Angels have any desire to acquire Josh Fields (they already have Brandon Wood and plenty of infielders), and there's a good chance they keep their new Rotisserie league star Texiera.

 

Hudson..well, he would be good, but at what cost? Can we afford to take on yet another salary when we're already fifth in the majors and haven't had much to show for it, compared to 2005 when we were in the middle of the pack?

 

I do think either Swisher or Konerko needs to go and we need a legitimate centerfielder. And speaking of "small ball," if Brian Anderson could do the same thing as Tadahito Iguchi, I'd say GREAT, sign me up. However, he's closer to Uribe. Sure, he'll give you 15-20 homers, but he's not a smart baseball player....he's an athlete trying to play baseball, just like Fields and Borchard. Ramirez is a baseball player who happens to be athletic (like Roberto Alomar in his prime, although that's just an example, too high a bar for Alexei). We need more of those type of players...even if they are aging, like Iguchi, we need players that know how to play the game right, that don't need to be coached or motivated or learn fundamentals. Once they arrive at the big league level, they pretty much are the player they are going to be.