KW crying? Maybe he will finally do something!!!

[caulfield12]

Williams wondered how many days the Sox had spent in first place since 2002. He said he couldn't believe they had been there so often and won only the one title, in 2005. He almost looked like he wanted to cry.

 

Imagine how he felt after Carlos Gomez and the Twins kept fighting back and the Minnesota bullpen—the one that had been 4-14 since Aug. 4—handcuffed Chicago hitters. The Twins eventually tied the score in the eighth inning and won 7-6 in the 10th on Alexi Casilla's two-out single off an exhausted Bobby Jenks.

 

Minnesota had completed a sweep that was imperative, moving into first place by a half-game over the stunned Sox. They have led the Central for 145 days this season and 464 since the start of 2002—almost exactly 40 percent of the time—but the Twins are the team that stands up at the end.

 

 

from chicagosports.com (Phil Rogers)

 

1) Fact, in Williams' time, he has won one AL Central Division title (1/8=12.5)

2) Fact, in Williams' time, the Twins have won 5 out of 7 (71.4%)

 

I would like for these numbers not to be true after Monday, but the odds are exceedingly in the Twins' favor.

 

3) Fact, the White Sox are 5-17 in games played in domed stadiums this year.

 

There are about 500 threads here, so why not another one? At least the keyboards are fired up! I kept going back and forth and thinking about how painful this was, comparing it to 2000 or 1983 or 1993. It really reminded me of the game the Twins won when Denny Hocking hit a walkoff homer against Foulke for some reason, that game sticks out in my mind.

 

I went back and forth between anger and sadness, wishing that Guillen would implode or resign, and definitely that Walker would be asked for his walking papers. Bainsey, too. Just for once, I wanted us to be able to say that we beat the Twins in a division race where both teams were pretty equally matched. It doesn't matter if the Twins go down 3 and out to the D-Rays (which would be likely if they can't use Liriano and Slowey is also out)...and we can go back to the old 2005 >>> five playoff appearances argument.

 

I can't imagine Williams keeping his job if it weren't for 2005...after last season. He's done a good job, all things considered, to put the team in a position to compete, just like he did in 2003 and 2006. I would gladly go through three seasons of below .500 baseball if I knew at the end of it we would finally have a great team again. The problem with KW's philosophy is it's not unlike that of the Kansas City Chiefs (putting together competitive teams season after season, just not quite good enough to get to the playoffs or do damage there)...but when the wheels come off, they really come off!!!

 

I can't even say that I was shocked or suprised at the final result. Everyone knows that Jenks isn't the same pitcher he was in 2005...although the statistics, overall, are good, he's just not the same intimidating pitcher, which is why I really think it makes some sense to shop both Jenks and Thornton NOW and see what might be available from other clubs. Whether it would have been better to use Linebrink or Dotel, I doubt it. A walk off homer from either of those guys would have sent out threads of outrage about not using our best pitcher in the most crucial innings of the season. Ozzie believed in Dye, Griffey and Thome to the end, and here we are.

 

Realistically, it comes down to pitching, and the Twins' pitching was just better (certainly the bullpens) and we fell into our normal trap of not adding on runs and building the lead. Dwayne Wise's at-bat (not bringing home Uribe) and then Griffey batting against a LHP with runners on 2nd and 3rd, just no excuse for that. Wise should have been benched after Game 2. Now we have yet another issue with Swisher's "bruised feelings" about riding the bench in the most important series of the season.

 

These games, once again, exposed all of our flaws for the world to see. A lack of clutch hitting, station to station baseball, almost never putting pressure on the opposing team on the basepaths (of course, it would be nice to have a catcher who could throw and pitchers who could hold runners, too), just the lack of creativity and imagination and adjustments from most of our hitters...

 

Most of us agree we are happy about Quentin (now he's a villain again, for knocking himself out of the line-up), Ramirez, Danks and Floyd. And that's about it (I guess you can add Buehrle!). Those five players symbolize what this team could be...but they're only 20% of the roster, and ultimately the Twins' team won over the White Sox individual statistics once again. So I hope KW will cry and cry, that might finally convince him to do something about changing the make-up of this roster, just as he did before the 2005 season.

Edited September 26, 2008 by caulfield12

[Heads22]

75-55 with CQ in the lineup.

 

11-17 without.

[Texsox]

75-55 with CQ in the lineup.

 

11-17 without.

 

ding ding ding

 

That begins and ends all discussion about September. In fact it so perfectly sums up this moment, I just don't want to open any other thread.

[caulfield12]

ding ding ding

 

That begins and ends all discussion about September. In fact it so perfectly sums up this moment, I just don't want to open any other thread.

 

 

But couldn't we make the same argument, statistically, about our record since July 21/22nd, when Linebrink left his 8th inning set-up role?

[chw42]

75-55 with CQ in the lineup.

 

11-17 without.

Talk about MVP...

[Texsox]

But couldn't we make the same argument, statistically, about our record since July 21/22nd, when Linebrink left his 8th inning set-up role?

 

Injuries. Too many to overcome.

 

Occam's Razor. All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best.

[chw42]

Injuries. Too many to overcome.

 

Occam's Razor. All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best.

 

And yet, we had a 2.5 game lead with those injuries. We choked. No more, no less.

[Texsox]

And yet, we had a 2.5 game lead with those injuries. We choked. No more, no less.

 

You may be able to walk 400 yards after breaking a leg, but eventually it will knock you down and you will stop walking.

 

If you mean by choking you are thinking of CQ, Linebrink, Crede, Contreras, Paulie, then you may have a point.

[BigSqwert]

Maybe next year Kenny will wake up and realize that we need a real CF. We're in a division with 3 of the best CFs in all of baseball and we're trotting out a 50 year old man.

[Texsox]

Maybe next year Kenny will wake up and realize that we need a real CF. We're in a division with 3 of the best CFs in all of baseball and we're trotting out a 50 year old man.

 

Which is big in a dome with concrete floors. There are reasons we crush the twins at the Cell and get crushed in the dome.

[BigSqwert]

Which is big in a dome with concrete floors. There are reasons we crush the twins at the Cell and get crushed in the dome.

 

Regardless of where we play CF has been a glaring weakness since Rowand left. It needs serious attention and pronto.

[southsideirish71]

Hopefully we can add a few more line drive types. This was another season with men on, trying to hit the long ball instead of the single thats needed. The twink big boys will shorten their swings up on 2 strikes to put the ball in play. Its an organizational philosophy of putting the ball in play.

 

People miss the boat with the construction of the Twins. Everyone points to the offense as being dome aided. But their pitching takes more of a jeckle and hyde routine from home and away. Thats more of the dome effect.

 

ERA at the Dome 3.24

ERA away from the Dome 5.14

 

Offense at the Dome 422 runs, .782 OPS .292BA ( due to the pounding it into the turf)

Offense away from the Dome 398 Runs, .726 OPS, .270 BA Most Runs in the AL on the road.

 

The offense is balanced and can play anywhere, its their pitching staff that has problems when they leave dome sweet dome.

 

Our home/away splits for our offense

 

We scored 444 runs at home. .833 OPS, 273 BA

We scored 333 runs on the road good for 12th in the AL. .732 OPS, .253 BA

 

[Flash Tizzle]

You may be able to walk 400 yards after breaking a leg, but eventually it will knock you down and you will stop walking.

 

If you mean by choking you are thinking of CQ, Linebrink, Crede, Contreras, Paulie, then you may have a point.

And yesterday's game where we scored 6 runs? We could have had you in LF and it wouldn't have mattered since the Sox had a five run lead in the fourth and let it go.

 

They choked. It's comical that anyone is arguing otherwise. Just admit it. It doesn't make you any less of a fan. Without Quentin they still have 9 players in the lineup. If Dye, Thome, AJ or Konerko were even mediocre this last week instead of embarrassingly bad this division would be ours. That's why you cant use this "Injures = suckage" formula. Honestly, who's to say Quentin would have even had a hit?

 

I hate where this is going. Williams is going to use the smae exact argument as you about injuries and of course you and others will eat it up.

Who f***ing cares if Charlotte took the field? They had a 2.5 game lead with a week to play and only needed one win the dome. A win which was more than possible in Game 3 even without Quentin! And let's not act like we were going up against Cy Young candidates. Both Baker and Blackburn respectively looked terribled; especially Blackburn who was hanging pitches on a Kirk Sarloos pace.

 

Also, let's not forget that until about a week ago Wise was hitting the s*** out of the ball and being a damn good replacement for Quentin. As had Uribe in replacement for Crede.

Edited September 26, 2008 by Flash Tizzle

[southsideirish71]

And yesterday's game where we scored 6 runs? We could have had you in LF and it wouldn't have mattered since the Sox had a five run lead in the fourth and let it go.

 

They choked. It's comical that anyone is arguing otherwise. Just admit it. It doesn't make you any less of a fan. Without Quentin they still have 9 players in the lineup. If Dye, Thome, AJ or Konerko were even mediocre this last week instead of embarrassingly bad this division would be ours. That's why you can use this "Injures = suckage" formula. Honestly, who's to say Quentin would have even had a hit?

 

I hate where this is going. Williams is going to use the smae exact argument as you about injuries and of course you and others will eat it up. Again, who f***ing cares if Charlotte took the field? They had a 2.5 game lead with a week to play, and only needed one win the dome. A win which was more than possible in Game 3 even without Quentin. And let's not act like we were going up against Cy Young candidates. Both Baker and Blackburn respectively looked terribled; especially Blackburn who was hanging pitches on a Kirk Sarloos pace.

 

Also, let's not forget that until about a week ago Wise was hitting the s*** out of the ball and being a damn good replacement for Quentin.

 

How does the loss of Quentin make the rest of the offense shut down. You mean Dye can't function if Q isnt there. Thome can't function. This lineup has had extended suckage as a group all year long. The only stability was Q. In April and May when our pitching was all world our offense was sucky. Quentin saved this season, but the rest of our guys never showed up. Swisher better be a f***ing superstar next year. His comedy routine is funny. But his offense not so funny. A baseball offense is made up of more than one player. Swisher going down sucked. But it was the offense taking the entire month of September off being one of the worst in the AL that ruined this season. 3 months they sucked this year on offense. Our home/away splits on offense are a joke. Its like the Texas Rangers a few years back when we questioned their lights in center fields. Something needs to be done. No more aging vets who are slow and have power.

 

 

 

[Texsox]

And yesterday's game where we scored 6 runs? We could have had you in LF and it wouldn't have mattered since the Sox had a five run lead in the fourth and let it go.

 

They choked. It's comical that anyone is arguing otherwise. Just admit it. It doesn't make you any less of a fan. Without Quentin they still have 9 players in the lineup. If Dye, Thome, AJ or Konerko were even mediocre this last week instead of embarrassingly bad this division would be ours. That's why you cant use this "Injures = suckage" formula. Honestly, who's to say Quentin would have even had a hit?

 

I hate where this is going. Williams is going to use the smae exact argument as you about injuries and of course you and others will eat it up.

Who f***ing cares if Charlotte took the field? They had a 2.5 game lead with a week to play and only needed one win the dome. A win which was more than possible in Game 3 even without Quentin! And let's not act like we were going up against Cy Young candidates. Both Baker and Blackburn respectively looked terribled; especially Blackburn who was hanging pitches on a Kirk Sarloos pace.

 

Also, let's not forget that until about a week ago Wise was hitting the s*** out of the ball and being a damn good replacement for Quentin. As had Uribe in replacement for Crede.

 

A team that everyone had pegged for .500 or worse, third or fourth in the division, is hit with a bunch of key injuries late in the season, and falls into a tie for first with 4 games to go. The only explanation must be they are choking. OK sure.

[scenario]

A team that everyone had pegged for .500 or worse, third or fourth in the division, is hit with a bunch of key injuries late in the season, and falls into a tie for first with 4 games to go. The only explanation must be they are choking. OK sure.

 

Thank you.

 

If the Twins had lost Justin Mourneau for the last month and lost more games as a result, would people be talking about the Twins "choking"? No. Of course not. And in most offensive categories this year Quentin > Mourneau.

 

That's not an excuse. It's a fact.

 

Sure the other guys need to pick it up. Let's hope it happens at home.

 

[chisox2334]

guys the w sox are falling apart at the seems. The crying, moaning, and groaning is happening all over the locker room. Two new additions are defnitley the one's saying their minds. I am more pisst about this teams philosophy as a whole than what has happened this year. When you cant do a run down, lay down a bunt, fird to third a guy, and score a runner on a single from second. It's time for change and no Im not asking for team like twins. But, if you dont get guys that consistley put the ball in play, your going to be in trouble.

[EvilJester99]

White Sox Discussing Extension With Kenny Williams

By Tim Dierkes [september 26 at 8:41am CST]

According to SI.com's Jon Heyman, White Sox GM Kenny Williams is discussing a multiyear extension with owner Jerry Reinsdorf.

 

Williams has become one of the game's best GMs. Not too many folks were picking the Sox for first or second place in the AL Central before the season. Recent highlights include the acquisitions of Carlos Quentin, John Danks, and Gavin Floyd. And to be fair, I liked the Nick Swisher deal at the time.

 

[nitetrain8601]

And so much for not going to the Metrodome anymore. Kenny ended up going to all 3 games.

[elrockinMT]

I love it when people analyze. It ain't ovah till it's ovah!

 

This team was never supposed to compete for this title and of course the Twins either. We have had injuries, hitters in what seems to be season long slumps, melt downs by starting and relieving pitching both, lumbering runners that can't outrun a lumber truck, shaky defense, etc, etc

 

But we are still there fighting for that title. Hopefully these players come together and show passion and patience at the same time and play like winners and if they do we will be the top dog come Sunday or Monday or Tuesday. I think we can do it!

 

Anyway I think it's all Jay Moronotti's fault

Edited September 26, 2008 by elrockinMT

[whitesoxfan101]

There is always an excuse. Always. The Sox almost invariably lose a division they could (if not should) win, and the fans almost invariably make excuses for KW. It must be nice to have a job where you can fail the vast, vast majority of the time and the fans back you up because of one season. The reason we've been bad this September starts with Carlos, but the fact this team could not win one game in Minnesota is inexcuseable, period. We may have been bad this month, but heading into this series Minnesota had been worse and we did nothing about it the last three days. Couldn't even win once, and that is pathetic. Of course, if another miracle happens in the next 3 to 5 days, I will look stupid. But I'm not counting on it.

Edited September 26, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[DBAHO]

I know everyone feels like s*** ATM, but you still have to remember that the Sox have had a good season, and much better than most people anticipated.

 

We're in a much better place than where we were 1 year ago, when there a LOT of question being asked, and I don't think people should lose sight of that.

 

And it ain't over til it's over, just like in 2005, anything can happen, I can't say I'm confident at all, but hey I'm hopeful as hell, and hopefully we'll get it together and at least make the playoffs.

[fathom]

I know everyone feels like s*** ATM, but you still have to remember that the Sox have had a good season, and much better than most people anticipated.

 

We're in a much better place than where we were 1 year ago, when there a LOT of question being asked, and I don't think people should lose sight of that.

 

This is the most accurate post that can be made. They've kept us entertained until at least the last weekend of the season.

[whitesoxfan101]

I know everyone feels like s*** ATM, but you still have to remember that the Sox have had a good season, and much better than most people anticipated.

 

We're in a much better place than where we were 1 year ago, when there a LOT of question being asked, and I don't think people should lose sight of that.

 

And it ain't over til it's over, just like in 2005, anything can happen, I can't say I'm confident at all, but hey I'm hopeful as hell, and hopefully we'll get it together and at least make the playoffs.

 

I can't argue with any of this, and the 2nd paragraph is especially accurate. However, assuming we fail to make the playoffs, most of the goodwill built by this team's surprise season is gone because they flat out collapsed. It's not a classic collapse like the Mets of 2007, but Minnesota entered this series an abysmal 7-12 record in September, yet we let them stay close AND then put up a lifeless effort in getting swept by their struggling squad to put ourselves in this bad situation. When you collapse, all the goodwill you may have built dies, just like your season.

Edited September 26, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[Princess Dye]

Honestly I feel the team can win it all in 09 with OBP, speed and two bullpen arms have to come from somewhere... be it Poreda or others.

 

I mean, we're all really down on this Dye slump but he had a really consistent season up until this end collapse. Thome meanwhile has been doing what we'd expect each of his years here.

 

 

I have no problem seeing Paul Konerko as a replaceable member of this team, he can battle Swish if we get some OBP in the outfield. I want the bank broken for Hudson, surely i'm not alone on that here. Perhaps b/c of his age we wouldnt have to go too long term.

Edited September 26, 2008 by Princess Dye