KW crying? Maybe he will finally do something!!!

[DBAHO]

I can't argue with any of this, and the 2nd paragraph is especially accurate. However, assuming we fail to make the playoffs, most of the goodwill built by this team's surprise season is gone because they flat out collapsed. It's not a classic collapse like the Mets of 2007, but Minnesota entered this series an abysmal 7-12 record in September, yet we let them stay close AND then put up a lifeless effort in getting swept by their struggling squad to put ourselves in this bad situation. When you collapse, all the goodwill you may have built dies, just like your season.

Yeah I can see that. But still it isn't over yet, and the Sox have done a pretty good job in holding the lead for as long as they ahve considering the injuries they've had over the 2nd half of the season.

 

I think we're only a couple of moves away from winning the whole thing to be honest.

 

Get an upgrade for Contreras, improve at 2B/3B/CF and this team can easily win over 90 games next season IMHO.

[Dick Allen]

The Twins and White Sox are tied in the loss column. The White Sox have not lost to the Indians at USCF in 2008. Freddy Garcia will be pitching for Detroit on Monday, if that is necessary. Cliff Lee, if he pitches Sunday, will not be 100%. Its far too early for a funeral.

[whitesoxfan101]

Yeah I can see that. But still it isn't over yet, and the Sox have done a pretty good job in holding the lead for as long as they ahve considering the injuries they've had over the 2nd half of the season.

 

I think we're only a couple of moves away from winning the whole thing to be honest.

 

Get an upgrade for Contreras, improve at 2B/3B/CF and this team can easily win over 90 games next season IMHO.

 

We haven't held the lead as much as Minnesota has refused to take it, at least up until the last three days. I have no idea how close we are to winning a World Series though. Our starting pitching isn't bad (although I would strongly consider trading Vazquez), and if we can pick up a couple guys at the spots you mentioned to add some balance to our lineup then we'd be in great shape there. But what about the bullpen? As Hawk accurately points out all the time, you can't win in today's game without a good bullpen. Bobby Jenks is not a guy I can totally trust anymore as is stuff gets worse every year, Dotel has been bad since the overuse started to get to him and I worry how his arm will respond next season at his age, Linebrink is obviously a big injury question, and what do we have after that? Thornton and that's about it. I know EVERYBODY has bullpen questions, but I have no idea how we will fix ours.

Edited September 26, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[fathom]

The more time passes this month, the more frustrated I get that we never gave Poreda a chance to be a valuable member of our bullpen. I don't care if his slider sucks...a mid 90s sinker can be very effective one time through the order. Look at the Twins...they just put Mijares right into the mix, and he's been golden for them.

[Soxbadger]

Bullpen just seems to be one area where if one thing goes wrong it leads to a cataclysmic collapse. Before Linebrink went down the Sox pen looked stack, then all of a sudden it was a train wreck.

 

Pen is just hard to predict any given year.

[scenario]

The more time passes this month, the more frustrated I get that we never gave Poreda a chance to be a valuable member of our bullpen. I don't care if his slider sucks...a mid 90s sinker can be very effective one time through the order. Look at the Twins...they just put Mijares right into the mix, and he's been golden for them.

 

I tend to agree with you on this.

 

The only thing I can figure is that they didn't want to screw up a 21-year old with his potential by throwing him into the pressure cooker of a major league pennant race.

 

And keep in mind that Clayton Richard outpitched him in the minors this year.

Edited September 26, 2008 by scenario

[DBAHO]

We haven't held the lead as much as Minnesota has refused to take it, at least up until the last three days. I have no idea how close we are to winning a World Series though. Our starting pitching isn't bad (although I would strongly consider trading Vazquez), and if we can pick up a couple guys at the spots you mentioned to add some balance to our lineup then we'd be in great shape there. But what about the bullpen? As Hawk accurately points out all the time, you can't win in today's game without a good bullpen. Bobby Jenks is not a guy I can totally trust anymore as is stuff gets worse every year, Dotel has been bad since the overuse started to get to him and I worry how his arm will respond next season at his age, Linebrink is obviously a big injury question, and what do we have after that? Thornton and that's about it. I know EVERYBODY has bullpen questions, but I have no idea how we will fix ours.

Jenks has still had a good season, any closer with an ERA under 3 is doing his job well, and he hasn't blown that many games for us, so I'm not worried about him.

 

Dotel is a guy, who needs to be handled carefully and also with Linebrink. I'd try to bring in another 7th/8th inning guy who can get the job done for you, and give you a good ERA.

 

Logan is a key as the 2nd lefty, he needs to rebound, or else we may be forced to bring someone else from the organisation in.

 

But at least, the bullpen is in better shape than it was 12 months ago. That doesn't mean KW should stop there though, it can definitely be boosted more.

[DBAHO]

How many innings did Poreda throw this season FWIW?

 

Maybe they are just looking after his long - term health.

[scenario]

How many innings did Poreda throw this season FWIW?

 

Maybe they are just looking after his long - term health.

 

He pitched 161 this year. 145 in 2007 between college and Great Falls.

 

[jenksycat]

Fact: the Twins have 0 rings. Sox have 1.

 

Fact: Twins have 6 wins in 17 PS games and 1 series win. Sox have 11 wins in 12 games. with 3 series wins.

 

The loss of Q, Linebrink, Jenks, Contrerass, and Crede cost us the season. Nothing else, there is no overcoming the extent of those losses, i don't care what anyone says.

[fathom]

Fact: the Twins have 0 rings. Sox have 1.

 

Fact: Twins have 6 wins in 17 PS games and 1 series win. Sox have 11 wins in 12 games. with 3 series wins.

 

The loss of Q, Linebrink, Jenks, Contrerass, and Crede cost us the season. Nothing else, there is no overcoming the extent of those losses, i don't care what anyone says.

 

It's not like the Twins haven't had their fair share of injuries either. They've been without their main set-up man for the whole season (Neshek), and they lost their 3rd best offensive player in Cuddyer for a majority of the year. I firmly believe that Span is their MVP.

[scenario]

It's not like the Twins haven't had their fair share of injuries either. They've been without their main set-up man for the whole season (Neshek), and they lost their 3rd best offensive player in Cuddyer for a majority of the year. I firmly believe that Span is their MVP.

 

I think the Twins pitching coach is their MVP.

 

Anybody who can take 5 starting pitchers... none of whom have even a full year in MLB under their belts... and have them compete for a division title is practically a miracle worker in my book.

 

[joejoesox]

Bernstein finally says something I agree with

 

The White Sox are a stupid team with stupid players

 

Not every player on the team is stupid, but a mass majority of them are certainly lacking in baseball IQ

[jenksycat]

It's not like the Twins haven't had their fair share of injuries either. They've been without their main set-up man for the whole season (Neshek), and they lost their 3rd best offensive player in Cuddyer for a majority of the year. I firmly believe that Span is their MVP.

 

Hence the reason they have the same # of wins we do. If those 3 games are played at the Cell, we don't get swept. Simple as that really. Both teams sucked ass and had injuries. We had more/worse injuries and psyched ourselves out of winning in the dome.

[scenario]

Bernstein finally says something I agree with

 

The White Sox are a stupid team with stupid players

 

Not every player on the team is stupid, but a mass majority of them are certainly lacking in baseball IQ

 

Who?

 

Call them out.

 

Pretend you're Ozzie for a moment and throw their ***es under the bus.

Edited September 26, 2008 by scenario

[fathom]

Hence the reason they have the same # of wins we do. If those 3 games are played at the Cell, we don't get swept. Simple as that really. Both teams sucked ass and had injuries. We had more/worse injuries and psyched ourselves out of winning in the dome.

 

I totally agree with this. The turning point of the game yesterday was Gavin laying in a cookie for Gomez to triple in a run with 2 outs in the 4th inning.

[The Ginger Kid]

ding ding ding

 

That begins and ends all discussion about September. In fact it so perfectly sums up this moment, I just don't want to open any other thread.

yes, it really does make the point. all this crap about domes and the twins, it's just that, crap. We're missing our best player, badly.

[jenksycat]

The funniest thing about this, we had the chance to win 2 of those 3 games. If that happens, all we will hear is how amazing and how much fight this team has. It was a crap shoot between 2 teams to see who would choke worse. We lost that battle. The truly sad thing is, the twins will most likely get swept or win 1 game in the playoffs. The sox on the other hand, when hot, could beat any team.

 

Nathan looks like he's going to have a heart attack on the mound and has blown 6 saves. Jenks loses it on a bad call by AJ/Bench and has 4 blown saves. The situation could be flipped for both of those guys.

[greg775]

75-55 with CQ in the lineup.

 

11-17 without.

 

Dat's it. Great find. Dat's all she wrote.

[Flash Tizzle]

A team that everyone had pegged for .500 or worse, third or fourth in the division, is hit with a bunch of key injuries late in the season, and falls into a tie for first with 4 games to go. The only explanation must be they are choking. OK sure.

This line of thinking reminds of me people who say, after the White Sox lose the final game of a series in spectacular fashion (after winning the first two), "If I would have told you before the series that the White Sox win 2/3 you would have taken it." Yes, I would have; but expectations change as the games are played. If we're winning Game 3 by 5 runs in the 6th inning and blow it, suddenly, that accepting 2/3 games philosophy just doesn't hold up anymore.

 

I don't know how anyone can cite the lack of confidence in the White Sox among fans preseason and compare it to now. For the first two months, yes, but after awhile -- when it became obvious this team wasn't last years -- the expectations should have changed. We began to anticipate winning games, and not merely be surprised by it; as we were in April/May.

 

2.5 game lead entering Minnesota with only ONE game needed to basically secure a playoff birth, and they couldn't even do that. Even after leading in Game 3, and the night before, having several great opportunites to pull ahead of Minnesota.

 

Key injuries? What about these September statistics. How does Quentin and Crede's absence explain this:

 

Swisher: .167/.233/.548

Thome: .214/.321/.736

Dye: .224/.290/.584

AJ: .197.243/.470

 

 

 

 

 

[The Critic]

How does Quentin and Crede's absence explain this:

 

Swisher: .167/.233/.548

Thome: .214/.321/.736

Dye: .224/.290/.584

AJ: .197.243/.470

 

They make everyone around them better?

 

[Flash Tizzle]

75-55 with CQ in the lineup.

 

11-17 without.

Twenty one of those games were played after his injury. Since I don't know the circumstances of the other 7 games, I'll just look at the September games. His final game was September 1st against Cleveland.

 

Of the 21 games, the Sox went 9-12. More importantly, against teams with records above .500 the Sox were 4-10. Three of those wins were at home. Dye/AJ/Swish/Thome/bullpen struggling have hurt us more than Quentin alone.

[caulfield12]

I guess you create your own luck...for whatever reasons, the really good teams find a way to have the breaks go their way. While the Gomez blown call at 2B and the ball that dropped an inch and a half off the line yesterday will be cited as reasons for our losses, sometimes things just go your way. Call it the "baseball gods." (Of course, the baseball gods are very cruel, and punish teams like the A's, Twins and Braves over and over again...to the point where some of their fans dread making the playoffs for fear they will be embarassed or "one and done" yet again).

 

Almost everything that could go wrong has for the White Sox (playing in the dome instead of US Cellular in the final series, Quentin's injury, the calls in that series, the decision to go with 3 day's rest instead of sticking to the regular rotation, etc.) has gone wrong. Decision-making from the dugout and from the catcher. Execution. Just like all the stars lined up behind the Sox three years ago.

 

Yes, the White Sox theoretically could have gotten hot like the Cardinals a couple of seasons ago, but there really haven't been any reasons to believe that was possible based on our play the last two months. There was another stat quoted about our abysmal winning percentage against winning teams on the road, in general on the road, on the road in domed stadiums...

 

I think I was reading another thread where someone said (and OC made this point, too) that the 2005 team just went out and expected to win games, and you knew many were over before they started. This year, we've instead found new and interesting ways to lose them. We don't have any one reliable aspect of our team that shows up on a day-to-day basis. We have a lot of talent, but a lack of collective belief in ourselves as a team. The fans sense this, I'm sure the players are aware of it, too. The 2005 team gets those breaks we were handed in the 6 run inning yesterday, they put the game out or reach...and the Twins have no belief with the Politte, Cotts, Jenks pen that a comeback is possible. Yesterday, we're all thinking of the various permutations that will prevent us from using any other reliever but Thornton and Jenks. Yesterday was telling, not even Linebrink and Dotel have Guillen's confidence right now.

 

While it might have been better for selling season tickets in 2009, missing the playoffs aren't a disaster, although it would have made for good stories the first couple of days next week about the Cubs and Sox meeting in the WS. From a rooting standpoint, at least I can still pull for the Rays (or Twins) and against any team playing the Cubs.

 

I think another big difference is that Contreras was just SO dominant. We forget about the roll he was on, and how well McCarthy pitched down the stretch. We weren't getting blown out down the stretch when we were collapsing, most of the games were quite close. Even then, we had games started by McCarthy and Jose that you felt VERY GOOD about winning, before the game even started. This year, despite the seemingly favorable match-ups, almost nothing has gone like predicted. In fact, the opposite has usually transpired. It has been an interesting and fun season to follow, but thoughts of "why do I follow White Sox baseball?" (or any sport in general, instead of doing more volunteer work, lol) are receding. Maybe I'll just change my mind. We were so close to having the playoffs you could feel it slipping away yesterday, all game long. As fathom said, it will be quite interesting to observe how the fans, team and coaches respond, as well as KW, the broadcasters will react/feel/hope or despair. Today feels a little like the day it would have felt like had we lost the Crede/Riske walk-off shot game. At this point, I'm not expecting the playoffs, just hoping against logical hope...but not surprised by any result.

Edited September 26, 2008 by caulfield12

[Heads22]

Twenty one of those games were played after his injury. Since I don't know the circumstances of the other 7 games, I'll just look at the September games. His final game was September 1st against Cleveland.

 

Of the 21 games, the Sox went 9-12. More importantly, against teams with records above .500 the Sox were 4-10. Three of those wins were at home. Dye/AJ/Swish/Thome/bullpen struggling have hurt us more than Quentin alone.

 

 

Though with Cabrera and Wise (up until the last coupple of nights) hitting well at the top of the order, it sure would have been nice to have someone that didn't suck in the 3 hole.

[caulfield12]

Though with Cabrera and Wise (up until the last coupple of nights) hitting well at the top of the order, it sure would have been nice to have someone that didn't suck in the 3 hole.

 

 

Has anything come out at all about Dye and off-field problems, or an injury? DJ made a comment (surreptitious/circumspect) about some type of issue, and that it was bothering or lingering with JD.

 

The only thing I can compare it to is Jose over the last couple of seasons when things were going down behind the scenes with his divorce and he was just pitching like his pre-acquisition form...totally different player you didn't even recognize.