KW crying? Maybe he will finally do something!!!

[thedoctor]

And yesterday's game where we scored 6 runs? We could have had you in LF and it wouldn't have mattered since the Sox had a five run lead in the fourth and let it go.

 

They choked. It's comical that anyone is arguing otherwise. Just admit it. It doesn't make you any less of a fan. Without Quentin they still have 9 players in the lineup. If Dye, Thome, AJ or Konerko were even mediocre this last week instead of embarrassingly bad this division would be ours. That's why you cant use this "Injures = suckage" formula. Honestly, who's to say Quentin would have even had a hit?

 

I hate where this is going. Williams is going to use the smae exact argument as you about injuries and of course you and others will eat it up.

Who f***ing cares if Charlotte took the field? They had a 2.5 game lead with a week to play and only needed one win the dome. A win which was more than possible in Game 3 even without Quentin! And let's not act like we were going up against Cy Young candidates. Both Baker and Blackburn respectively looked terribled; especially Blackburn who was hanging pitches on a Kirk Sarloos pace.

 

Also, let's not forget that until about a week ago Wise was hitting the s*** out of the ball and being a damn good replacement for Quentin. As had Uribe in replacement for Crede.

 

choke? they won one game in the dome this year with their best offensive player. that trend was just going to suddenly change?

 

i'd be more inclined to call choke if the sox blow it against the indians and don't either finish the regular season with a playoff berth or at least force a game monday.

Edited September 27, 2008 by thedoctor

[gosox41]

Injuries. Too many to overcome.

 

Occam's Razor. All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best.

 

 

Injuries are part of the game and not good excuses. Sure losing Quentin hurts. But ws losing him the reason Dye (before tonight) hasn't hit a homer since late August? Was losing CQ the reason future HOFer Thome has disappeared this month? How about AJ's slump the last couple of weeks? CQ again?

 

 

[gosox41]

Those guys have slumped. It would have been nice to have Quentin's bat in the lineup to help carry the load, rather than count on Wise/Swisher/Anderson/Owens. Thats where the injury hurts.

 

 

 

It would have been nice.

 

Maybe next year KW should build a team with more balance (aka speed). Power hitters tend to slump for longer periods then speedsters. If you have speed there is more then one way to generate runs. If you're a power hitter, it's live and die by the long ball. There are no other options to generate runs for these guys.

[gosox41]

Williams wondered how many days the Sox had spent in first place since 2002. He said he couldn't believe they had been there so often and won only the one title, in 2005. He almost looked like he wanted to cry.

 

Imagine how he felt after Carlos Gomez and the Twins kept fighting back and the Minnesota bullpen—the one that had been 4-14 since Aug. 4—handcuffed Chicago hitters. The Twins eventually tied the score in the eighth inning and won 7-6 in the 10th on Alexi Casilla's two-out single off an exhausted Bobby Jenks.

 

Minnesota had completed a sweep that was imperative, moving into first place by a half-game over the stunned Sox. They have led the Central for 145 days this season and 464 since the start of 2002—almost exactly 40 percent of the time—but the Twins are the team that stands up at the end.

 

 

from chicagosports.com (Phil Rogers)

 

1) Fact, in Williams' time, he has won one AL Central Division title (1/8=12.5)

2) Fact, in Williams' time, the Twins have won 5 out of 7 (71.4%)

 

I would also like to point out a fact I brought up in me earlier open letter to KW. The Sox have finished behnd the Twins in 6 of 7 years in the KW era, and more likely it'll be 7 of 8 unless the Sox get going here.

 

 

 

[fathom]

I miss watching Carlos Quentin hit.

[Dick Allen]

As pissed off as most of us are, and as much as you want to rip guys like Konerko and Thome and Dye etc. for fading down the stretch, what has killed the Sox the last 2 games for sure and the first game in Minnesota has been the pitching. When you score 6 with a 16 game winner on the mound, you should win. When you score 8 against Cleveland you should win. The Sox get those games, they would only have to win 1 more.One thing offensively I think I've never seen before, a lead off walk in the 9th and the game is over 2 pitches later.

Edited September 27, 2008 by Dick Allen

[Friend of Nordhagen]

Most of us have been saying that for a few months. The team has a good power core, and should stick with it. It would dumb to move away from it, seeing as we play 81 games in a launching pad. However, the lineup needs more balance surrounding the core.

 

Williams needs to address it.

 

This has never made much sense to me, with the White Sox or any other team in a small ballpark. If the park is small, doesn't it make just as much sense to build a team with, along with a few thumpers, some speed and line-drive guys. I mean, if it's really a small park, won't they hit their fair share of home runs with that approach anyway -- AND ALSO have the diversity to be a good team on the road?

 

[Dick Allen]

This has never made much sense to me, with the White Sox or any other team in a small ballpark. If the park is small, doesn't it make just as much sense to build a team with, along with a few thumpers, some speed and line-drive guys. I mean, if it's really a small park, won't they hit their fair share of home runs with that approach anyway -- AND ALSO have the diversity to be a good team on the road?

The smaller the field, the more shallow outfielders play. While a non power guy may hit a few more homers in a bandbox, he'll probably lose a lot more hits.

[jenksycat]

Injuries are part of the game and not good excuses. Sure losing Quentin hurts. But ws losing him the reason Dye (before tonight) hasn't hit a homer since late August? Was losing CQ the reason future HOFer Thome has disappeared this month? How about AJ's slump the last couple of weeks? CQ again?

 

Yeah, they're not good excuses, they're answers, reasons, explanations etc. Losing Q means less protection for the other guys in the lineup.

 

Take Morono out of the Twins lineup, how do you think they would do?

 

The reason we do not have a 5+ game lead right now is due to injuries and injuries alone. The number of games lost due to no Q, no Linebrink, no Jenks, no Contreras, no Crede = well over 5 games. Maybe if we only lost Wise or Ozuna for a couple months, you can say "oh injuries are just part of the game"...but not with those losses. The Twins had injuries, but nowhere near the extent we did.

[caulfield12]

Yeah, they're not good excuses, they're answers, reasons, explanations etc. Losing Q means less protection for the other guys in the lineup.

 

Take Morono out of the Twins lineup, how do you think they would do?

 

The reason we do not have a 5+ game lead right now is due to injuries and injuries alone. The number of games lost due to no Q, no Linebrink, no Jenks, no Contreras, no Crede = well over 5 games. Maybe if we only lost Wise or Ozuna for a couple months, you can say "oh injuries are just part of the game"...but not with those losses. The Twins had injuries, but nowhere near the extent we did.

 

 

They lost Neshek for the entire season and Cuddyer for a large percentage of it.

 

Actually, losing Cuddyer might have turned out to be a blessing. In the process, they found a player in Denard Span, a former 1st round draft pick (yet another home-grown product) who contributed mightily this season...in many ways, the MVP of their team, even though his individual statistics are relatively meager when compared to the Sox big bombers. But that's kind of the point. Players like Gomez, Span, Punto, Buscher, Casilla and Harris contribute in multiple ways that are not measured by the traditional box score.

[chisoxt]

Yeah, they're not good excuses, they're answers, reasons, explanations etc. Losing Q means less protection for the other guys in the lineup.

 

Take Morono out of the Twins lineup, how do you think they would do?

 

The reason we do not have a 5+ game lead right now is due to injuries and injuries alone. The number of games lost due to no Q, no Linebrink, no Jenks, no Contreras, no Crede = well over 5 games. Maybe if we only lost Wise or Ozuna for a couple months, you can say "oh injuries are just part of the game"...but not with those losses. The Twins had injuries, but nowhere near the extent we did.

 

Again, look to KW for blame on the injury angle.....While the CQ injury was self-inflicted, the fact is that Kenny's roster is comprised with older veteran players who historically break down and get injured more than younger players. So when these players get injured, the only recourse is that you replace them with your better minor league players...but.. oops, Kenny did a lousy job of that as well. I think that from a prospect development standpoint, we are slowly getting back on track again, but in the meantime, it's going to be tough counting on any help from the minors...so...the only way of finding help there is to sign veteran free agent talent....but...oops, the Sox budget is already high and there is very little flexibility in 09. Also alarming is the growing amount of 'dead money' accumulating in 09 - Contreras $10 million, MacDougal $3 million, Linebrink $5 million, Swisher $4 million....that's one hell of a lot of money tied up in guys that you cannot count on in 09.

 

So how do you fix this? You do have a nice but small core of good players, but major changes are clearly needed and other than throwing more money at the problems, the options are few.

 

I would give Kenny a one year deal, but absolutely nothing long term.

Edited September 27, 2008 by chisoxt

[Soxfest]

KW only has himself to blame!

[caulfield12]

Again, look to KW for blame on the injury angle.....While the CQ injury was self-inflicted, the fact is that Kenny's roster is comprised with older veteran players who historically break down and get injured more than younger players. So when these players get injured, the only recourse is that you replace them with your better minor league players...but.. oops, Kenny did a lousy job of that as well. I think that from a prospect development standpoint, we are slowly getting back on track again, but in the meantime, it's going to be tough counting on any help from the minors...so...the only way of finding help there is to sign veteran free agent talent....but...oops, the Sox budget is already high and there is very little flexibility in 09. Also alarming is the growing amount of 'dead money' accumulating in 09 - Contreras $10 million, MacDougal $3 million, Linebrink $5 million, Swisher $4 million....that's one hell of a lot of money tied up in guys that you cannot count on in 09.

 

So how do you fix this? You do have a nice but small core of good players, but major changes are clearly needed and other than throwing more money at the problems, the options are few.

 

I would give Kenny a one year deal, but absolutely nothing long term.

 

 

The Twins, with contracts for the likes of Lamb, Monroe, Everett and Livan Hernandez, were actually more "wasteful" than the White Sox in this regard.

 

Not to mention that it was a much higher percentage of their overall payroll than the White Sox, significantly higher. What's getting Bill Smith off the hook for only adding Guardado is the minor league depth that Ryan left him with....Buscher, Tolbert, Span, Mijares, Breslow (picked up from the Indians for nothing), etc.

 

MacDougal was clearly a "miss," but we have insurance on Contreras' contract (about $6.5 million if he were to miss all of 2009), Linebrink hopefully will be back to normal and Swisher will either provide us something different in return or we'll see if he can rebound (like KW did with Vazquez).

 

The contracts for Dotel and Linebrink are a concern, but it seems that spending any money in the FA market on short relievers is just like playing Russian Roulette or craps. The odds of success are better with proven veterans (although this theory didn't work so well for Baltimore, or with teams that gambled on Gagne)...than what we did the last two seasons in our bullpen, which was essentially loading up with former first round draft picks and guys with talented arms and hope that Cooper could salvage their careers magically.

 

KW just needs to be creative...either Dye or Konerko should move to DH (my preference would be Dye), Swisher to 1B (where you hope for a rebound) and then you try Anderson or go the FA route (or get a SS/2B/3B back from a Konerko deal.)

 

The problem is that we have at least three significant issues: 3B, 2B/SS (I'm assuming Ramirez will end up at short), and CF, where Swisher is playing out of position. Our best bargaining chips are Poreda and Fields, yet they both are depth in positions where we need the most help (5th starter/3B) going into next season. I think it might be too expensive a luxury to carry Uribe at $4-5 million a season to be the back-up, and Uribe and Anderson are players I'm not sure you wisely or logically build around, even though they are still much younger than your core in Konerko, Dye, Thome and AJ. You play Swisher at 1B, you have a little below major league average production, very solid defense...it's all predicated on getting a Pods-like (not Jerry Owens) player for CF.

 

Getting Figgins, Hudson, Furcal, etc., isn't going to be cheap, either in terms of salary or talent surrendered. KW has to go out and find someone (like Alex Rios) coming off a down year, but still young, that the club is willing to part with for the right price...a player that doesn't fit on the depth chart due to injuries or one season of non-performance, but major league ready (like Quentin). Maybe we should look at Japan again, it worked for awhile with both Takatsu and Iguchi. Maybe KW will really roll the dice on Ichiro or A-Rod, although both these names seem more like fantasy discussion based on our minor league systems, rather than reality. Abreu's name has been mentioned, and he would be fine, if the price was right and we could move Konerko and put Swisher at 1B and find a better CFer. Then there's always the strange and curious case of Brian Anderson.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

The Twins, with contracts for the likes of Lamb, Monroe, Everett and Livan Hernandez, were actually more "wasteful" than the White Sox in this regard.

 

Not to mention that it was a much higher percentage of their overall payroll than the White Sox, significantly higher. What's getting Bill Smith off the hook for only adding Guardado is the minor league depth that Ryan left him with....Buscher, Tolbert, Span, Mijares, Breslow (picked up from the Indians for nothing), etc.

 

MacDougal was clearly a "miss," but we have insurance on Contreras' contract (about $6.5 million if he were to miss all of 2009), Linebrink hopefully will be back to normal and Swisher will either provide us something different in return or we'll see if he can rebound (like KW did with Vazquez).

 

The contracts for Dotel and Linebrink are a concern, but it seems that spending any money in the FA market on short relievers is just like playing Russian Roulette or craps. The odds of success are better with proven veterans (although this theory didn't work so well for Baltimore, or with teams that gambled on Gagne)...than what we did the last two seasons in our bullpen, which was essentially loading up with former first round draft picks and guys with talented arms and hope that Cooper could salvage their careers magically.

 

KW just needs to be creative...either Dye or Konerko should move to DH (my preference would be Dye), Swisher to 1B (where you hope for a rebound) and then you try Anderson or go the FA route (or get a SS/2B/3B back from a Konerko deal.)

 

The problem is that we have at least three significant issues: 3B, 2B/SS (I'm assuming Ramirez will end up at short), and CF, where Swisher is playing out of position. Our best bargaining chips are Poreda and Fields, yet they both are depth in positions where we need the most help (5th starter/3B) going into next season. I think it might be too expensive a luxury to carry Uribe at $4-5 million a season to be the back-up, and Uribe and Anderson are players I'm not sure you wisely or logically build around, even though they are still much younger than your core in Konerko, Dye, Thome and AJ. You play Swisher at 1B, you have a little below major league average production, very solid defense...it's all predicated on getting a Pods-like (not Jerry Owens) player for CF.

 

Getting Figgins, Hudson, Furcal, etc., isn't going to be cheap, either in terms of salary or talent surrendered. KW has to go out and find someone (like Alex Rios) coming off a down year, but still young, that the club is willing to part with for the right price...a player that doesn't fit on the depth chart due to injuries or one season of non-performance, but major league ready (like Quentin). Maybe we should look at Japan again, it worked for awhile with both Takatsu and Iguchi. Maybe KW will really roll the dice on Ichiro or A-Rod, although both these names seem more like fantasy discussion based on our minor league systems, rather than reality. Abreu's name has been mentioned, and he would be fine, if the price was right and we could move Konerko and put Swisher at 1B and find a better CFer. Then there's always the strange and curious case of Brian Anderson.

 

Are you sure about the Contreras insurance? I read somewhere there wasn't any. I know the Mets have none on Billy Wagner. Figgins is a guy who supposedly is not well liked in the Angel clubhouse, and seems to be constantly injured. Furcal has a back problem. With what went down with Crede, I don't see JR shelling out a huge commitment to him. Hudson is a guy the Sox have admired for years, but he wants 8 figures. I find it hard to believe he's worth that. There's just nothing obvious out there, plus with the Yankees and Mets moving into new moneymakers and the Yankees also shedding $84 million in payroll, if you go the free agent route, you may have to be looking at plan D or E. It will be an interesting offseason. I do know KW will get a real leadoff hitter.

There's a lot more to like here than there was last year. Floyd actually looks legitimate and Danks rebounded from a horrible 2nd half to be dominating at times. Quentin and Beckham add to the mix although I will always be concerned with Quentin's health considering the amount of times he gets hit by a pitch.

Edited September 27, 2008 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

Are you sure about the Contreras insurance? I read somewhere there wasn't any. I know the Mets have none on Billy Wagner. Figgins is a guy who supposedly is not well liked in the Angel clubhouse, and seems to be constantly injured. Furcal has a back problem. With what went down with Crede, I don't see JR shelling out a huge commitment to him. Hudson is a guy the Sox have admired for years, but he wants 8 figures. I find it hard to believe he's worth that. There's just nothing obvious out there, plus with the Yankees and Mets moving into new moneymakers and the Yankees also shedding $84 million in payroll, if you go the free agent route, you may have to be looking at plan D or E. It will be an interesting offseason. I do know KW will get a real leadoff hitter.

 

 

I don't think it will be Gary Mathews, Jr., but a name like that is along the lines of what KW is looking at...a player we could get another team to subsidize his contract, whose upside MIGHT still be relatively high. Milton Bradley. Tavares comes to mind, I know most posters here don't like that move. Alex Rios or Vernon Wells. CoCo Crisp. Brian Giles. Abreu. Those are the kind of names we'll see, maybe Michael Bourn Identity. I doubt we could get someone like Lastings Milledge.

 

In past years, someone like Dave Martinez, Ellis Burks, Mike Devereaux, etc. No, not Daubach or Armando Blame It on Jose Rios.

 

What this team needs is a 2009 version of Lance Johnson or Ray Durham to add a little excitement and speed to go with the Cuban Missile.