Who won the debate?

[mr_genius]

was pretty even. McCain maybe won, barely.

 

the economic debate will be more important

[Jenksismyhero]

The reason Obama needed to just hold his own is really threefold. He's seen as the weaker debater, so doing well enough is considered winning. That's kind of what happened with Bush in 2000 and 2004. And frankly, if Palin can hold it together next week, it is what will happen to her. Performance tends to be evaluated relative to your perceived ability to debate. Secondly, this is McCain's "home turf." International Relations is supposed to be McCain's strength. His ability to not stand head and shoulders above Obama's positions in the debate is a bad sign for McCain because it differentiates him less in the good ways from Obama. And finally, the reason why holding your own is enough for Obama is that in the case of Obama, you have a base that's voting FOR him - and by and large the Republican base is voting AGAINST Obama and not for McCain. When your campaign is running hard against someone else instead of running for yourself, and your opponent "holds his own," he just neutralized another thing you can use against him.

 

I guess I didn't expect him to be the weaker debater (ala Bush). He's a very intelligent guy and can certainly hold his own when speaking publicly. Though I find it funny that people give McCain a hard time about not staring into the camera (really? do you feel more connected if he's staring into the camera?) Obama can't complete sentences. Everything is interrupted with an "and" an "umm" or an "also." Personally I think those are issues that are for people that haven't followed the issues and the policies of the respective candidates. It's akin to "I like his haircut. It makes him look young. I'll vote for him."

 

Second, I didn't see Obama even touching McCain on international relations - he brought up taxes and energy and healthcare everytime he was asked a question. He stuck to his political points that he loves the average american whereas big scary republican wants to kill them. Obama had nothing to compare to McCain saying "i've been here, i've spoken with these people, I had to make decisions during crisis X, Y and Z and I have an actual record on how and why I made my vote - you haven't." I thought he was made a fool in his that face-to-face portion (he can mischaracterize his and Kissinger's own words all he wants but when you say "I will..." that means you, not your people.) and really, he really upset me with the surge/future iraq strategy issue (which he continues to simply answer by saying Bush III got us into the war). I'm like 60/40 for McCain at this point and I really wanted Obama to speak to me about that, but instead, like I posted this morning, he just went back to that stupid and illogical democratic strategy of paint the other guy as Bush and blame the war on him. I also thought McCain had a great point when he said for as much as you speak about Iraq and as much as you think the strategy has been wrong, you haven't been to Iraq and you've never spoken with anyone in charge.

 

I don't think your third point is true. There are equal numbers of people that are voting against having an old white republican in office again as there are people afraid of a black socialist.

 

I don't think McCain schooled him or anything, I'm more inclined to say it was a draw. But that's because the debate wasn't about international relations - Obama brought up far too many other topics to make it a "McCain Debate" that he showed up for.

[lostfan]

Weakest moment: Obama's "i have a bracelet too!" line. Really? Was that necessary?

It was absolutely necessary. Republicans have this stupid strategy lately of pretending they have a monopoly on concern for the welfare of troops. Obama pulled out the bracelet and threw that argument in the trash.

[mr_genius]

It was absolutely necessary. Republicans have this stupid strategy lately of pretending they have a monopoly on concern for the welfare of troops. Obama pulled out the bracelet and threw that argument in the trash.

 

it didn't seem effective, was kind of like one of John Edwards 'mill worker' stories.

[lostfan]

was pretty even. McCain maybe won, barely.

 

the economic debate will be more important

If you're scoring it on pure debate points, I think McCain probably won. McCain spent a lot of time on the offensive.

[lostfan]

it didn't seem effective, was kind of like one of John Edwards 'mill worker' stories.

The response was stupid, but it was appropriate to what it was responding to. Basically, Obama said "So? And?"

[Jenksismyhero]

The response was stupid, but it was appropriate to what it was responding to. Basically, Obama said "So? And?"

 

That's what he meant yes, but it came off like a kid vying for attention. "Teacher, teacher, look at me! I can shoot the ball too!!"

[EvilMonkey]

You know, i don't remember hearing too much about Obama being a weak debator until the last few weeks. Was that an intentional dumbing-down of the expectations by the Obama camp? It may have been said much earlier, but I really don't recall hearing that. I do recall hearing how Obama prefered the styles where he can use canned answers instead of having to talk off the cuff, but don't recall such low expectations about him.

[lostfan]

You know, i don't remember hearing too much about Obama being a weak debator until the last few weeks. Was that an intentional dumbing-down of the expectations by the Obama camp? It may have been said much earlier, but I really don't recall hearing that. I do recall hearing how Obama prefered the styles where he can use canned answers instead of having to talk off the cuff, but don't recall such low expectations about him.

During the primaries the prevailing opinion was that Hillary was a stronger debater than Obama.

[EvilMonkey]

During the primaries the prevailing opinion was that Hillary was a stronger debater than Obama.

Well, i do remember that, but I swear the last few weeks have had people believing that Obama would be lucky to find the podium in a debate, and if he just survuves, it would be a victory! That low of expectations I don't remember.

[lostfan]

Well, i do remember that, but I swear the last few weeks have had people believing that Obama would be lucky to find the podium in a debate, and if he just survuves, it would be a victory! That low of expectations I don't remember.

I don't think it's so much that, but that foreign policy was McCain's strength, and Obama had his work cut out for him keeping pace.

[Jenksismyhero]

I don't think it's so much that, but that foreign policy was McCain's strength, and Obama had his work cut out for him keeping pace.

 

and he did that by not talking about foreign policy

[EvilMonkey]

and he did that by not talking about foreign policy

I personally though he got slapped down after his Kissenger comments. He almost seemed scared when McCain jumped on him about it.

[lostfan]

and he did that by not talking about foreign policy

Umm... what?

[lostfan]

I personally though he got slapped down after his Kissenger comments. He almost seemed scared when McCain jumped on him about it.

He stuck to that one point too strong, but the point he made before that about all 5 secretaries of state plus the Bush administration more or less agreeing with him was a strong counter to McCain continuously trying to beat him over the head with the "you are naive" thing. After that it became semantics.

[bmags]

You know, i don't remember hearing too much about Obama being a weak debator until the last few weeks. Was that an intentional dumbing-down of the expectations by the Obama camp? It may have been said much earlier, but I really don't recall hearing that. I do recall hearing how Obama prefered the styles where he can use canned answers instead of having to talk off the cuff, but don't recall such low expectations about him.

 

It's not that he's bad he was just very inconsistent over the 20 or so democratic debates, so people were wondering which Obama would show up. Towards the last 4 or 5 debates v. hill I thought Obama started to find his voice.

[farmteam]

That's what he meant yes, but it came off like a kid vying for attention. "Teacher, teacher, look at me! I can shoot the ball too!!"

 

I didn't take it as that at all. As someone (lostfan maybe?) mentioned, the GOP seems to like acting as if they are the only ones who are allowed to care about troops. McCain used his sentimental story, and Obama threw back at him saying "Yes John, I care about them too. What point are you trying to prove?"

 

I'd say it was a draw, but I think it went more towards Obama a little. I felt that Obama was actually trying to talk to McCain on civilized level (calling him John, looking at him, etc.), whereas McCain was more condescending. I think demeanor like that goes a long way with many voters.

 

Also, what was the deal with the "South Koreans are three inches taller than North Koreans" bit?

 

 

[DrunkBomber]

and... we're supposed to ignore people that make 30k or less? I don't really get your post.

No, Im just sick of hearing people make it sound like Obama is a middle class average joe and McCain is in the Trump bloodline. McCain grew up as a military brat and his dad was at war for a lot of his child hood but all you ever hear is, McCain has 37 houses and drives a Lambo with a pool in the back and Obama is on food stamps and drives a hybrid that runs on Styrofoam. McCain married someone who was extremely wealthy and all of a sudden he is out of touch with everyone and Obama lives in a multimillion dollar house that he used his political ties to a felon to buy at a discount and he is the common man? Theyre both politicians, they both make much more than the average person. Obama isnt clipping coupons and the only reason he is driving that car is because he was getting s*** about his hemi, it says so in the link you posted yourself.

[Texsox]

The debate is actually won or lost over the days after the debate. The majority of voters did not watch it, they will hear who won or lost. Perception is everything. Debates are a stupid way to decide President, they should play Risk instead for Foreign Relations. Monopoly for economics.

[EvilMonkey]

I didn't take it as that at all. As someone (lostfan maybe?) mentioned, the GOP seems to like acting as if they are the only ones who are allowed to care about troops. McCain used his sentimental story, and Obama threw back at him saying "Yes John, I care about them too. What point are you trying to prove?"

 

I'd say it was a draw, but I think it went more towards Obama a little. I felt that Obama was actually trying to talk to McCain on civilized level (calling him John, looking at him, etc.), whereas McCain was more condescending. I think demeanor like that goes a long way with many voters.

 

Also, what was the deal with the "South Koreans are three inches taller than North Koreans" bit?

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-h...let-where-media

Apparently the family has asked Obama to stop wearing and talking about the bracelet, but he has decided to ignore them and do it anyway.

[bmags]

No, Im just sick of hearing people make it sound like Obama is a middle class average joe and McCain is in the Trump bloodline. McCain grew up as a military brat and his dad was at war for a lot of his child hood but all you ever hear is, McCain has 37 houses and drives a Lambo with a pool in the back and Obama is on food stamps and drives a hybrid that runs on Styrofoam. McCain married someone who was extremely wealthy and all of a sudden he is out of touch with everyone and Obama lives in a multimillion dollar house that he used his political ties to a felon to buy at a discount and he is the common man? Theyre both politicians, they both make much more than the average person. Obama isnt clipping coupons and the only reason he is driving that car is because he was getting s*** about his hemi, it says so in the link you posted yourself.

 

well if you are sick of it, it's the GOPs fault. One of their initial attacks about Obama was that he was an elitist. It was a stupid line of action considering McCain is absurdly rich. Obama did not make all his money until his books the last decade. He was a professor and state senator. That's not $$$$$

[HuskyCaucasian]

[farmteam]

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-h...let-where-media

Apparently the family has asked Obama to stop wearing and talking about the bracelet, but he has decided to ignore them and do it anyway.

 

Then Obama shouldn't be using that particular bracelet. However, the general "We're the GOP so we're the only ones who care about the troops vibe" I keep getting is ridiculous.

[Texsox]

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-h...let-where-media

Apparently the family has asked Obama to stop wearing and talking about the bracelet, but he has decided to ignore them and do it anyway.

That is so wrong, the family should sue. They should be allowed to pick who wears the bracelet.

[southsider2k5]

Also, what was the deal with the "South Koreans are three inches taller than North Koreans" bit?

 

It has to do with the level of chaos and non-health of the general public there. Millions of people have starved, and much of the country is malnourished and not properly cared for.