Big Picture, in my opinion

[joejoesox]

Let's look at what's left of this team

 

We have a incredibly fatigued pitching staff

 

We have two youngsters in Danks and Floyd who have absolutely no experience pitching in pressure situations

 

We have a veteran with "Great Stuff" that can't pitch on 3 days rest, nor can he pitch in big-games, and has been questioned by more than two (at least) members of the White Sox (AJ and Ozzie, probably more)

 

We have a veteran with big-game experience and success, but is pitching on short rest

 

We have an incredibly inconsistent offense that can only score runs via the homerun, period. These hitters will be shutdown in Tampa Bay.

 

---

 

The Indians are playing with drive, determination, and focus that they will resemble this type of team in 2009. They also probably have a few players trying to play spoiler after what happened to them in 2005.

Basically, the Tribe are playing with a purpose. Their team has come together, and has played incredible baseball after Sabathia was traded. As Stone said during the game, after he was dealt, "It's as if a huge weight had been lifted off the shoulders of Indians players".

 

The White Sox, have no desire, no heart, no sense of urgency. Even if they had all of the previous things, their pitching staff is cooked. They are physically and mentally weak, and are not capable of winning big games outside of Mark Buerhle. Unfortunately, even with our most capable pitcher taking the mound tomorrow, his offense will get shutdown and will be unable to score any runs off Cy Young candidate Brian Bollington (sp?). Meanwhile, the bullpen will enter the game and give up a minimum of three runs, putting the game out of reach.

 

The Twins will not lose their game tomorrow, and it will wrap up the season for the 2008 White Sox.

 

My opinions on a few things:

 

Our pitching staff is sautee'd, marinated, and burnt to a crisp. With an incapable offense starting off the season, followed by a ridiculously poor September, the pitching staff's arms are more than likely overused and incredibly fatigued, reducing their command as well as velocity. Follow the overuse up, with short rest and you have almost zero percent change of them being effective in a playoff series. It would be a 3 game, monster blowout by Tampa Bay.

 

Our team has also seen untold amounts of injuries this year, which have lead to a lineup of pressing sluggers, trying to do way too much at the plate, resulting in weak pop-ups, strikeouts, and double-plays. Lack of any team speed (When Cabrerra, or Ramirez get on base they are as cemented to the bag as any of our lumberjacks would be), enforces our 1-dimensional approach, which ends up being an incredibly easy lineup to face, even for young inexperienced pitchers.

 

What I feel needs to be changed for 2009:

 

Insert some speed at the top of the order, along with some baseball IQ as well (Ramirez lacks this). Quentin will resume his spot at #3, which he's perfect for filling. Either Konerko, Dye, or Thome needs to somehow be convinced of a trade, as having almost 50% of our lineup consisting of DH-type players, reduces this teams chances of winning games due to their station-to-station approach.

 

Our pitching staff is a toss-up for 2009. Will the overuse of 2008 reflect in their ability and performance next year? It's hard to say. It certainly has shown to affect other teams pitchers (As well as our own in 2006). Pitchers such as Verlander, Carmona, etc. have shown an inability to rebound after a year of post-season play.

 

I, as well as many others here, do not like our chances of winning this division (However possible it still may be). With that said, our chances in the playoffs due to the overuse of our pitching staff as well as injuries (Contreras, Linebrink), and required use of pitchers such as Richard, Wasserman, Carrasco, etc. from the pen, would be slim at best.

 

I've been incredibly frustrated as of late, and have said things from the heart and not from the mind which have been untrue. But having a clear head now, these are my true feelings on the future of this team

 

 

 

[DaTank]

I like what I've been reading on here with rebuilding this team. Keep Quentin, Danks, Floyd, Alexei, and possibly Jenks and Swish. Go out and get some young arms, hitters, and speed-demons.

Edited September 28, 2008 by jenks45monster

[C_LEE45]

Let's look at what's left of this team

 

We have a incredibly fatigued pitching staff

 

We have two youngsters in Danks and Floyd who have absolutely no experience pitching in pressure situations

 

We have a veteran with "Great Stuff" that can't pitch on 3 days rest, nor can he pitch in big-games, and has been questioned by more than two (at least) members of the White Sox (AJ and Ozzie, probably more)

 

We have a veteran with big-game experience and success, but is pitching on short rest

 

We have an incredibly inconsistent offense that can only score runs via the homerun, period. These hitters will be shutdown in Tampa Bay.

 

---

 

The Indians are playing with drive, determination, and focus that they will resemble this type of team in 2009. They also probably have a few players trying to play spoiler after what happened to them in 2005.

Basically, the Tribe are playing with a purpose. Their team has come together, and has played incredible baseball after Sabathia was traded. As Stone said during the game, after he was dealt, "It's as if a huge weight had been lifted off the shoulders of Indians players".

 

The White Sox, have no desire, no heart, no sense of urgency. Even if they had all of the previous things, their pitching staff is cooked. They are physically and mentally weak, and are not capable of winning big games outside of Mark Buerhle. Unfortunately, even with our most capable pitcher taking the mound tomorrow, his offense will get shutdown and will be unable to score any runs off Cy Young candidate Brian Bollington (sp?). Meanwhile, the bullpen will enter the game and give up a minimum of three runs, putting the game out of reach.

 

The Twins will not lose their game tomorrow, and it will wrap up the season for the 2008 White Sox.

 

My opinions on a few things:

 

Our pitching staff is sautee'd, marinated, and burnt to a crisp. With an incapable offense starting off the season, followed by a ridiculously poor September, the pitching staff's arms are more than likely overused and incredibly fatigued, reducing their command as well as velocity. Follow the overuse up, with short rest and you have almost zero percent change of them being effective in a playoff series. It would be a 3 game, monster blowout by Tampa Bay.

 

Our team has also seen untold amounts of injuries this year, which have lead to a lineup of pressing sluggers, trying to do way too much at the plate, resulting in weak pop-ups, strikeouts, and double-plays. Lack of any team speed (When Cabrerra, or Ramirez get on base they are as cemented to the bag as any of our lumberjacks would be), enforces our 1-dimensional approach, which ends up being an incredibly easy lineup to face, even for young inexperienced pitchers.

 

What I feel needs to be changed for 2009:

 

Insert some speed at the top of the order, along with some baseball IQ as well (Ramirez lacks this). Quentin will resume his spot at #3, which he's perfect for filling. Either Konerko, Dye, or Thome needs to somehow be convinced of a trade, as having almost 50% of our lineup consisting of DH-type players, reduces this teams chances of winning games due to their station-to-station approach.

 

Our pitching staff is a toss-up for 2009. Will the overuse of 2008 reflect in their ability and performance next year? It's hard to say. It certainly has shown to affect other teams pitchers (As well as our own in 2006). Pitchers such as Verlander, Carmona, etc. have shown an inability to rebound after a year of post-season play.

 

I, as well as many others here, do not like our chances of winning this division (However possible it still may be). With that said, our chances in the playoffs due to the overuse of our pitching staff as well as injuries (Contreras, Linebrink), and required use of pitchers such as Richard, Wasserman, Carrasco, etc. from the pen, would be slim at best.

 

I've been incredibly frustrated as of late, and have said things from the heart and not from the mind which have been untrue. But having a clear head now, these are my true feelings on the future of this team

 

 

 

 

there is no excuse for not winning a game in a WEEK with a 2 n half game lead,ozzie needs to be held responable for most of the blame,the call on comez and then the span foul ball he needed to go out there and get thrown out TRY to fire this team up,if not go off after the game and call them out but no just sit back ozzie,that what pisses me off and the fact iam going to lose 100.00,but i will agree this team need more SPEED and a #1 starter BAD!!!!

 

[greg775]

Great long post. I enjoyed it. Good stuff.

 

I'm beyond being mad. It's laughable. It's the most amazing meltdown I've ever seen regarding my favorite teams in sports. I really don't know how you come back from something like this. I guess the only way you do is remember as how amazingly incredible as the 05 postseason was (in losing just one game and winning almost em all) the polar opposite has happened in '08.

We've lost every game just as we won every game in 05.

Losing every single game when only winning one or so would have given us the crown is so absurd it's laughable.

 

We cut the lead to 8-6. Boom 2 more Indian runs.

We lead Twins 6-1. Boom, they win.

Never seen anything like this.

 

 

And it's continuing. We still should force the game on Monday minimum. Will we? I'd think not. But hey ... I'm hoping and rooting!

 

But again, if we lose six straight (maybe even seven straight if we and Twins lose tomorrow) to end this season ... how the hell do you come back from that?? Fire Oz? Just chalk it up to it being the polar opposite of '05? I have no answers.

Edited September 28, 2008 by greg775

[CWSOX45]

Great long post. I enjoyed it. Good stuff.

 

I'm beyond being mad. It's laughable. It's the most amazing meltdown I've ever seen regarding my favorite teams in sports. I really don't know how you come back from something like this. I guess the only way you do is remember as how amazingly incredible as the 05 postseason was (in losing just one game and winning almost em all) the polar opposite has happened in '08.

We've lost every game just as we won every game in 05.

Losing every single game when only winning one or so would have given us the crown is so absurd it's laughable.

 

We cut the lead to 8-6. Boom 2 more Indian runs.

We lead Twins 6-1. Boom, they win.

Never seen anything like this.

 

 

And it's continuing. We still should force the game on Monday minimum. Will we? I'd think not. But hey ... I'm hoping and rooting!

 

But again, if we lose six straight (maybe even seven straight if we and Twins lose tomorrow) to end this season ... how the hell do you come back from that?? Fire Oz? Just chalk it up to it being the polar opposite of '05? I have no answers.

 

 

The interesting thing is is that baseball is a game of streaks.....sometimes you're hot, and sometimes you're down right awful. I'm just curious to see what would happen if we did make it to October. Chances are we would get smoked, but you just never know.....

Edited September 28, 2008 by CWSOX45

[greg775]

I agree you never know.

Has anybody ever experienced something like this with their favorite team(s)? This is a once in a lifetime deal for sure. It's crazy.

[jenksycat]

sigh, i love how the answer to all our problems is "speed". Owens is fast....why is he not the answer? Maybe because he can't f***ing hit the ball out of the infield. We scored enough runs to win the last 2 games, and didnt score enough to win the last 2 in minny.

 

And why is the season over? The twins haven't looked any better than we have, and *gasp* there in the THUNDERDOME THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO WIN IN.

 

Find a way to get something for one of Thome/Konerko/Dye. Move Swish to RF, give BA a chance, aquire a 2b/ss who can leadoff, get urbie back for cheap, find more bulpen.

 

But no matter what, injuries killed this team, nothing else.

[joejoesox]

sigh, i love how the answer to all our problems is "speed". Owens is fast....why is he not the answer? Maybe because he can't f***ing hit the ball out of the infield. We scored enough runs to win the last 2 games, and didnt score enough to win the last 2 in minny.

 

And why is the season over? The twins haven't looked any better than we have, and *gasp* there in the THUNDERDOME THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO WIN IN.

 

Find a way to get something for one of Thome/Konerko/Dye. Move Swish to RF, give BA a chance, aquire a 2b/ss who can leadoff, get urbie back for cheap, find more bulpen.

 

Speed isn't the answer.

 

Balance is.

 

Slow sure as f*** isn't the answer either, that's what we have right now

 

But no matter what, injuries killed this team, nothing else.

 

I agree, at least 75% anyway. The other 25% is that the offense has been really bad for long periods of time, which killed our starting pitchers and bullpen

Edited September 28, 2008 by joesaiditstrue

[scenario]

Let's look at what's left of this team

 

We have a incredibly fatigued pitching staff

 

We have two youngsters who have absolutely no experience pitching in pressure situations

 

We have a veteran with "Great Stuff" that can't pitch on 3 days rest, nor can he pitch in big-games, and has been questioned by more than two (at least) members of the team

 

We have a veteran with big-game experience and success, but is pitching on short rest

 

We have an incredibly inconsistent offense.

 

 

Sounds alot like the 2006 Cardinals to me.

 

 

[jenksycat]

Speed isn't the answer.

 

Balance is.

 

Slow sure as f*** isn't the answer either, that's what we have right now

 

 

 

I agree, at least 75% anyway. The other 25% is that the offense has been really bad for long periods of time, which killed our starting pitchers and bullpen

 

I'll take a slow slugger over a speedster who hits .200 any day. If you can find a guy who is fast, gets on base, and plays decent D, then I'm all for it. But just "getting fast guys" isn't going to change s***.

[caulfield12]

Let's look at what's left of this team

 

We have a incredibly fatigued pitching staff

 

We have two youngsters in Danks and Floyd who have absolutely no experience pitching in pressure situations

 

We have a veteran with "Great Stuff" that can't pitch on 3 days rest, nor can he pitch in big-games, and has been questioned by more than two (at least) members of the White Sox (AJ and Ozzie, probably more)

 

We have a veteran with big-game experience and success, but is pitching on short rest

 

We have an incredibly inconsistent offense that can only score runs via the homerun, period. These hitters will be shutdown in Tampa Bay.

 

---

 

The Indians are playing with drive, determination, and focus that they will resemble this type of team in 2009. They also probably have a few players trying to play spoiler after what happened to them in 2005.

Basically, the Tribe are playing with a purpose. Their team has come together, and has played incredible baseball after Sabathia was traded. As Stone said during the game, after he was dealt, "It's as if a huge weight had been lifted off the shoulders of Indians players".

 

The White Sox, have no desire, no heart, no sense of urgency. Even if they had all of the previous things, their pitching staff is cooked. They are physically and mentally weak, and are not capable of winning big games outside of Mark Buerhle. Unfortunately, even with our most capable pitcher taking the mound tomorrow, his offense will get shutdown and will be unable to score any runs off Cy Young candidate Brian Bollington (sp?). Meanwhile, the bullpen will enter the game and give up a minimum of three runs, putting the game out of reach.

 

The Twins will not lose their game tomorrow, and it will wrap up the season for the 2008 White Sox.

 

My opinions on a few things:

 

Our pitching staff is sautee'd, marinated, and burnt to a crisp. With an incapable offense starting off the season, followed by a ridiculously poor September, the pitching staff's arms are more than likely overused and incredibly fatigued, reducing their command as well as velocity. Follow the overuse up, with short rest and you have almost zero percent change of them being effective in a playoff series. It would be a 3 game, monster blowout by Tampa Bay.

 

Our team has also seen untold amounts of injuries this year, which have lead to a lineup of pressing sluggers, trying to do way too much at the plate, resulting in weak pop-ups, strikeouts, and double-plays. Lack of any team speed (When Cabrerra, or Ramirez get on base they are as cemented to the bag as any of our lumberjacks would be), enforces our 1-dimensional approach, which ends up being an incredibly easy lineup to face, even for young inexperienced pitchers.

 

What I feel needs to be changed for 2009:

 

Insert some speed at the top of the order, along with some baseball IQ as well (Ramirez lacks this). Quentin will resume his spot at #3, which he's perfect for filling. Either Konerko, Dye, or Thome needs to somehow be convinced of a trade, as having almost 50% of our lineup consisting of DH-type players, reduces this teams chances of winning games due to their station-to-station approach.

 

Our pitching staff is a toss-up for 2009. Will the overuse of 2008 reflect in their ability and performance next year? It's hard to say. It certainly has shown to affect other teams pitchers (As well as our own in 2006). Pitchers such as Verlander, Carmona, etc. have shown an inability to rebound after a year of post-season play.

 

I, as well as many others here, do not like our chances of winning this division (However possible it still may be). With that said, our chances in the playoffs due to the overuse of our pitching staff as well as injuries (Contreras, Linebrink), and required use of pitchers such as Richard, Wasserman, Carrasco, etc. from the pen, would be slim at best.

 

I've been incredibly frustrated as of late, and have said things from the heart and not from the mind which have been untrue. But having a clear head now, these are my true feelings on the future of this team

 

Ramirez, before the last couple of weeks, was perhaps one of the best "pure" baseball players on this team.

 

Sometimes he makes physical errors, and his defense has been shady the last 2 months...but he's still got the fastest bat on this team (along with Quentin) and he's in the prime of his career. He's one of the few players on this team that can actually bunt for a hit.

 

I just think the long season has finally caught up with him, compared to playing in Cuba last year. He's very thin, I'm surprised he didn't start to struggle in August, but he is used to the heat from living 90 miles south of Key West.

Edited September 28, 2008 by caulfield12

[almagest]

What we need is for our pitching staff to stop giving up 12 runs a game. Work on patching the bullpen a bit, maybe shore up the starters, and we're fine.

[chisoxt]

I agree you never know.

Has anybody ever experienced something like this with their favorite team(s)? This is a once in a lifetime deal for sure. It's crazy.

 

Thing is with this team it's not a once in a lifetime deal....They minichoked in 2003, almost choked in 2005, choked in the second half of 2006. I would call this a trend. Maybe the severity of it this time will engrain an impression or two in our stubborn GM's head, that he need to go radically in another direction.