Twins have "internal discussions" about Cabrera and Crede

[DBAHO]

History has shown it's not wise to offer that kind of money to a 2B. To a SS, CFer or starting pitcher (a VERY select few), sure.

 

The White Sox did a good job plugging in Iguchi at 2B in 05 and 06, and found a gem in Ramirez. I don't want a Furcal/Jones type of contract for a non-franchise player. It would be one thing if he was 27-29, but he's not. That was the one thing I liked about the Swisher deal, getting the average age of this team down, and numbers financially made more sense. Of course, that doesn't mean I want Chris Getz to be the starter either, but I think there's better options out there than paying a Figgins or Hudson player $30 million plus. Speed is always (or should be) less expensive to acquire than power. Simple, but true, fundamental baseball adage.

You have to look at what the Sox's needs are though and the players out there on the market.

 

We'll have the contracts of Crede, Uribe and OC coming off the books, and JC's contract maybe covered by insurance. That's potential $25M in contracts the Sox won't have to pay.

 

Uribe will be back, he's played himself back into a role, but only as a utility man IMHO. That's $3M or so. I'd like to sign another good bullpen guy, another lefty if possible or someone like Doug Brocail who had a good season before being overworked. That's another 3M or so.

 

Which guys are out there via FA that the Sox could go after to fill their CF hole, or do they give Swisher another opportunity there. Why not offer Swisher and Fields to Seattle for Beltre for example, to try and fill your hole at 3B? The Sox take on another $6M or so in that deal, leaving another 10-15M potentially to spend, if not more, considering payroll has increased each season for the last 5-6.

 

So unless the Sox traded for a big name CF, they'd have to sign a 2B or SS IMHO. Rafael Furcal is basically the only guy I could really justify the Sox going after as a SS, considering his OBP / defensive skills, but the Dodgers want to re-sign him and he's very injury prone.

 

Hence why I think going after Hudson on a 2 year 25M deal or so and moving Alexei Ramirez to SS is a better option. They'd still need a CF, but they could offer prospects to Pittsburgh for someone like Nate McLouth for instance.

 

Either way, the Sox need to strengthen up the middle and at 3B, as they're pretty much set elsewhere.

 

KW's got a real opportunity to consolidate the gains the Sox have made (hence why I'd like to see him go after some more young pitching if possible as well, because with Floyd and Danks he's got a good recent track record on that front).

[WCSox]

Him and his me first attitude were going crazy when the Ramirez hit that grand slam. He cares about the team!

 

Weak sauce

 

[southsider2k5]

If any teams think Joe Crede is on the "downside" look for a one yer contract with incentives and maybe mutual agreed on extensions and Joe will prove he can still play.

 

With Borass as his agent, he will get a one year deal, no options. He wants to be able to get his guys into free agency as many times as possible.

[That funky motion]

Weak sauce

What's weak is everyone thinking he is selfish because of a phone call. Every home run he is congratulating in the dugout. That is so selfish!

[GoodAsGould]

Obviously Cabrera knows this is a contract season for him and probably his last chance to cash in, but he is definitely a team player. He is seemingly more pumped than anyone when we hit big HR's and I think besides Ozzie he has fit in really well with the rest of the team. Not 2 mention when most of the team struggled late in the season he seemingly picked up his game offensively.

[WCSox]

What's weak is everyone thinking he is selfish because of a phone call. Every home run he is congratulating in the dugout. That is so selfish!

 

No, what's weak is the sophomoric argument that you're presenting. Do you think that sulking in the dugout when a teammate homers would do anything positive for him?

 

Perhaps you forgot about Cabrera throwing his teammates under the bus last week. You know, the comments about everybody goofing off and not focusing (except for him, apparently). Does that sound like a good teammate to you?

 

I'm not arguing that Cabrera isn't a team player AT ALL, but I've seen enough this season to conclude that he's most interested in looking out for himself.

 

[caulfield12]

You have to look at what the Sox's needs are though and the players out there on the market.

 

We'll have the contracts of Crede, Uribe and OC coming off the books, and JC's contract maybe covered by insurance. That's potential $25M in contracts the Sox won't have to pay.

 

Uribe will be back, he's played himself back into a role, but only as a utility man IMHO. That's $3M or so. I'd like to sign another good bullpen guy, another lefty if possible or someone like Doug Brocail who had a good season before being overworked. That's another 3M or so.

 

Which guys are out there via FA that the Sox could go after to fill their CF hole, or do they give Swisher another opportunity there. Why not offer Swisher and Fields to Seattle for Beltre for example, to try and fill your hole at 3B? The Sox take on another $6M or so in that deal, leaving another 10-15M potentially to spend, if not more, considering payroll has increased each season for the last 5-6.

 

So unless the Sox traded for a big name CF, they'd have to sign a 2B or SS IMHO. Rafael Furcal is basically the only guy I could really justify the Sox going after as a SS, considering his OBP / defensive skills, but the Dodgers want to re-sign him and he's very injury prone.

 

Hence why I think going after Hudson on a 2 year 25M deal or so and moving Alexei Ramirez to SS is a better option. They'd still need a CF, but they could offer prospects to Pittsburgh for someone like Nate McLouth for instance.

 

Either way, the Sox need to strengthen up the middle and at 3B, as they're pretty much set elsewhere.

 

KW's got a real opportunity to consolidate the gains the Sox have made (hence why I'd like to see him go after some more young pitching if possible as well, because with Floyd and Danks he's got a good recent track record on that front).

 

 

Agree with most of what you're saying, except for the possibility of getting McLouth. At some point, the Pirates will have to keep some of their young talent and try to build something. He's got enough years for a reasonable salary (unlike Bay) that you have to think he would be hard to pry away.

 

I don't see the Mariners accepting a possibly injury-prone Fields and the erratic Swisher. Arguably, it would be a step down from Raul Ibanez...and Michael Morse, Olivo, Reed and Borchard all have had minimal impacts. Just don't see it. I think that Cuddyer and a prospect or two would be more appealing than Swisher coming out of this season.

[DBAHO]

Agree with most of what you're saying, except for the possibility of getting McLouth. At some point, the Pirates will have to keep some of their young talent and try to build something. He's got enough years for a reasonable salary (unlike Bay) that you have to think he would be hard to pry away.

 

I don't see the Mariners accepting a possibly injury-prone Fields and the erratic Swisher. Arguably, it would be a step down from Raul Ibanez...and Michael Morse, Olivo, Reed and Borchard all have had minimal impacts. Just don't see it. I think that Cuddyer and a prospect or two would be more appealing than Swisher coming out of this season.

Cuddyer's numbers were even worse than Swisher's though this season, so he should have less value.

 

I'd think they'd have some interest in Swisher to replace Ibanez. Doubt Raul will be going back there (he's a FA IIRC, and my guess is the Mets will target him to play LF, and move Murphy to 2B).

[sox1844]

No, what's weak is the sophomoric argument that you're presenting. Do you think that sulking in the dugout when a teammate homers would do anything positive for him?

 

Perhaps you forgot about Cabrera throwing his teammates under the bus last week. You know, the comments about everybody goofing off and not focusing (except for him, apparently). Does that sound like a good teammate to you?

 

I'm not arguing that Cabrera isn't a team player AT ALL, but I've seen enough this season to conclude that he's most interested in looking out for himself.

 

Sophmoric is making a decision based on what the media tells you to think... Did you even hear what he said on the radio? No one got thrown under the bus, my firiend. He said WE about everything, and like everyone else, he was frustrated with their play. Whats the big deal? He didn't name names, he didn't point a finger, he said WE need to work on XYZ. Why does that bother you? What did you want him to say? Lie like everyone else and say its great that we blew the lead?

 

Your argument is hypocritical in nature, how can you say that he's so selfish to throw teammates under the bus on the radio, but he when he's celebrating grand slams, he's acting?? I don't understand how you can say both things? Who are you to say when he's "acting" and when he's being sincere? You're making an argument based on a preconceived decision that he's selfish, and thats not fair. Its actually rather childish.

[greg775]

I'd hate to see Crede snatching every grounder and liner we pull toward third 18 games a year and getting clutch hits and homers in The Cell vs. us as well as OC deciding he wanted to bury us every time he plays us.

 

-- Is it just me or does Bartlett hit way over his head against us? Is it him being a former Twin? He f***ing kills the ball vs. us it seems.

Edited October 3, 2008 by greg775

[Frank the Tank 35]

Cuddyer's numbers were even worse than Swisher's though this season, so he should have less value.

 

I'd think they'd have some interest in Swisher to replace Ibanez. Doubt Raul will be going back there (he's a FA IIRC, and my guess is the Mets will target him to play LF, and move Murphy to 2B).

 

No more Chad Tracy fantasies? Similar OPS to Beltre and close to 0 value to the D'backs at this point... granted his defense isn't so hot...

 

Why settle for just McLouth?... fill the 5th starter hole and buy low on Snell!

 

Trade Swisher at his lowest value? Meh...

 

Buy lows... Robinson Cano? Homer Bailey? Alex Gordon? Ryan Zimmerman?

 

KW's gotta fill three positions this offseason... SP, 3B, and one of SS/2B. It won't all get done on the FA market. It won't all get done by trades. Figure we have enough ammo for one good trade, one good FA acquisition, and one crapshoot.

[greg775]

I wish we'd keep Alexei at 2B for the next 10 years. But I bet they move him to ss. Hope he's not a sieve.

[caulfield12]

No more Chad Tracy fantasies? Similar OPS to Beltre and close to 0 value to the D'backs at this point... granted his defense isn't so hot...

 

Why settle for just McLouth?... fill the 5th starter hole and buy low on Snell!

 

Trade Swisher at his lowest value? Meh...

 

Buy lows... Robinson Cano? Homer Bailey? Alex Gordon? Ryan Zimmerman?

 

KW's gotta fill three positions this offseason... SP, 3B, and one of SS/2B. It won't all get done on the FA market. It won't all get done by trades. Figure we have enough ammo for one good trade, one good FA acquisition, and one crapshoot.

 

No way we get Cano and the Royals won't dream of dealing Gordon, either. If you want Mark Teahen/Joe Randa at 3B, then that's the best we're going to be able to come up with. Gordon is still viewed by Dayton Moore as their franchise player, along with Greinke, Hochevar, Moustakas and Hosmer. He went to the University of Nebraska...and is a midwest kid. Maybe, maybe, if he puts up identical numbers to his first two seasons in 2009 again, they'll at least THINK of moving him.

 

I also think the Reds aren't going to give up on Bailey yet, same with the Dodgers and Kershaw, and the Yankees (Hughes/Kennedy).

[caulfield12]

No more Chad Tracy fantasies? Similar OPS to Beltre and close to 0 value to the D'backs at this point... granted his defense isn't so hot...

 

Why settle for just McLouth?... fill the 5th starter hole and buy low on Snell!

 

Trade Swisher at his lowest value? Meh...

 

Buy lows... Robinson Cano? Homer Bailey? Alex Gordon? Ryan Zimmerman?

 

KW's gotta fill three positions this offseason... SP, 3B, and one of SS/2B. It won't all get done on the FA market. It won't all get done by trades. Figure we have enough ammo for one good trade, one good FA acquisition, and one crapshoot.

 

No way we get Cano and the Royals won't dream of dealing Gordon, either. If you want Mark Teahen/Joe Randa at 3B, then that's the best we're going to be able to come up with. Gordon is still viewed by Dayton Moore as their franchise player, along with Greinke, Hochevar, Moustakas and Hosmer. He went to the University of Nebraska...and is a midwest kid. Maybe, maybe, if he puts up identical numbers to his first two seasons in 2009 again, they'll at least THINK of moving him.

 

I also think the Reds aren't going to give up on Bailey yet, same with the Dodgers and Kershaw, and the Yankees (Hughes/Kennedy).

[DBAHO]

No more Chad Tracy fantasies? Similar OPS to Beltre and close to 0 value to the D'backs at this point... granted his defense isn't so hot...

 

Why settle for just McLouth?... fill the 5th starter hole and buy low on Snell!

 

Trade Swisher at his lowest value? Meh...

 

Buy lows... Robinson Cano? Homer Bailey? Alex Gordon? Ryan Zimmerman?

 

KW's gotta fill three positions this offseason... SP, 3B, and one of SS/2B. It won't all get done on the FA market. It won't all get done by trades. Figure we have enough ammo for one good trade, one good FA acquisition, and one crapshoot.

. Some people have good memories on here, so well played.

 

Tracy's unfortunately gone a little downhill I think, and his OPS was the lowest it's been for some time at .722.

 

Beltre had an OPS of .784 and away splits of .292/.349/.512 this season. He's one of the best defensive 3rd baseman in the league, so if the price was right (and yes Tony, my proposal yesterday was a bit far-fetched as I certainly want no piece of Miguel Batista), then I'd be all for making a move there.

[caulfield12]

Cashman's not dumb. You don't trade someone with that talent (Justin Upton would be another example) based on one down/disappointing year, lack of hustle, lethargic play, etc. The guy should/could be competing for the batting title year after year.

 

It's not as if Poreda is even one of the consensus Top 50 minor league prospects in baseball. It will take a lot more than Poreda.

[SoxFan562004]

The thing that shocked me is when the Hawk said he talked to someone in the Twins org and they said their plan is to keep scouting and developing players as they are and try to get their new outdoor field to be like the one in Arlington. There is zero possability that is their real plan, because if it is that team is in for some bad years because you cannot replicate the Texas weather in Minny.

[southsideirish71]

I'll be very surprised if Cano isn't moved this off-season. The Yankees are going to move Cano for starting pitching help, and sign Hudson to fill the void at 2nd. I have heard that a few different places.

 

I didn't say all it would take is Poreda. However, if the Sox put him on the table, I think they could get a deal worked out around him.

 

A Cano/Ramirez middle infield would be pretty nice. Move Beckham to 3rd and we have something good for a long time.

 

 

 

[RockRaines]

There are probably 2 areas KW will focus on most this offseason: A leadoff hitter and a SP. I do not think he thinks there is a problem in CF. So the OF is fairly set. 3B could be filled with Fields in KW's mind, you better believe that. So most likely he will look at a project pitcher like Freddy for a SP and sign whatever big name middle IF'er that falls to his price range. I would say he probably does that, signs a fringe pen guy and calls it an offseason.

 

There will be ZERO overhauls this offseason folks. This team almost won 90 games and made the playoffs without a 5th starter and our best offensive weapon. KW has no reason to think he needs a lineup overhaul.

[That funky motion]

No, what's weak is the sophomoric argument that you're presenting. Do you think that sulking in the dugout when a teammate homers would do anything positive for him?

 

Perhaps you forgot about Cabrera throwing his teammates under the bus last week. You know, the comments about everybody goofing off and not focusing (except for him, apparently). Does that sound like a good teammate to you?

 

I'm not arguing that Cabrera isn't a team player AT ALL, but I've seen enough this season to conclude that he's most interested in looking out for himself.

Well he could just high five or just sit on the bench. Other Sox players do that, they must be selfish.

 

He never threw anyone under the bus!

 

 

[GoodAsGould]

There are probably 2 areas KW will focus on most this offseason: A leadoff hitter and a SP. I do not think he thinks there is a problem in CF. So the OF is fairly set. 3B could be filled with Fields in KW's mind, you better believe that. So most likely he will look at a project pitcher like Freddy for a SP and sign whatever big name middle IF'er that falls to his price range. I would say he probably does that, signs a fringe pen guy and calls it an offseason.

 

There will be ZERO overhauls this offseason folks. This team almost won 90 games and made the playoffs without a 5th starter and our best offensive weapon. KW has no reason to think he needs a lineup overhaul.

 

This team is old, obviously there wont be a complete overhaul but I do expect some major changes. If we go into next season without cutting/trading some dead weight and picking up key pieces the whitesox will be watching the playoffs next season.

[jenksycat]

Find a way to get rid of PK/Thome/Dye. Use Swish to fill in whatever gap is left by those guys. Sign a middle IF and keep an eye out for a CF'er since this franchise hates BA. Sign a SP, get some RP from somewhere other than KC and you got your team.

[WCSox]

There are probably 2 areas KW will focus on most this offseason: A leadoff hitter and a SP. I do not think he thinks there is a problem in CF. So the OF is fairly set. 3B could be filled with Fields in KW's mind, you better believe that. So most likely he will look at a project pitcher like Freddy for a SP and sign whatever big name middle IF'er that falls to his price range. I would say he probably does that, signs a fringe pen guy and calls it an offseason.

 

There will be ZERO overhauls this offseason folks. This team almost won 90 games and made the playoffs without a 5th starter and our best offensive weapon. KW has no reason to think he needs a lineup overhaul.

 

I tend to agree with that. Richard will get a shot at the 25-man roster in ST, but I agree that Kenny will likely sign a veteran. If Richard does well, he'll probably take the long relief role. And I imagine that Kenny goes after a 2B/SS whose OBP is decent enough to lead off.

 

Outside of that, I agree that he probably won't do much.

 

[caulfield12]

It's a shame the Sox don't have a few higher end pitching prospects. If they had another arm or two outside of Poreda, I really think you could see a match. Remember, Cashman and Williams have a very good working relationship.

 

One name to consider is Swisher. It's a forgone conclusion in NY that Giambi is gone, and the Yanks OF situation certainly isn't set in stone.

 

 

We could pry Melky Cabrera away now, but not Cano.

 

He's the type of player that KW targets...someone who used to be in high demand, still young, but with the potential to turn things around.

 

Cano just doesn't fit the profile of the normal KW find...he's been a great player and an All-Star. The only similarity is he's coming off a very disappointing year.

[caulfield12]

According to Joe Christensen of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune, the Twins are interested in free agent shortstop Orlando Cabrera. Christensen guesses Cabrera could receive a three-year, $30MM contract this winter.

 

Cabrera, 34 in November, hit .281/.334/.371 in 730 plate appearances. He has a reputation as a strong defensive shortstop, though the plus/minus system says he made just one more play than the average shortstop this year. He's much better on balls hit to his left than his right.

 

I like that the Twins seem willing to throw around a little cash, but Cabrera seems a questionable target. Rafael Furcal is risky too, but at least there's upside.

 

from mlbtraderumors.com