4 players that went home AFTER getting to Tampa

[southsider2k5]

My point is this is time to get a job done, in Boy Scouts we would have the kids actually participating, not sitting on the sidelines or on a couch far away. So if Broadway declined an offer to actually play, then the analogy would hold true. But to think the Sox need Logan and Broadway to cheer them on or support them seems silly to me. A locker room full of hanger-ons seems like a distraction, not a help. Guys that made a contribution during the year like CQ or JC, make sense, AAAA players can stay home.

 

So every scout participates everytime in every activity? That's news to me.

 

Ask John Danks what a year of hanging around Mark Buehrle did for him.

[Texsox]

So every scout participates everytime in every activity? That's news to me.

 

Ask John Danks what a year of hanging around Mark Buehrle did for him.

 

In a properly run Scout program, I can't think of an example where they are told not to. Perhaps there is one. But I can't think of a time they come to an activity and told to just sit in another room and watch and *maybe* someday you'll have a chance to do this. But I only have 20 years into the program And that is really a side note.

 

How important is it to win, and how important is it to get AAAA players time hanging on the clubhouse couch while the rest of the team takes the field? I believe winning is far more important than player development during the playoffs. That is what September call ups are for.

 

Anything that helps the 25 man roster prepare to play is good, anything that detracts from that is bad. If Broadway and Logan hanging around helps the team win, I'm for it. If Mark said he needs Logan in the clubhouse, than Logan whoulsd be in the clubhouse. But I've never heard that. I agree it is good experience for the developing players, but at what expense? Obviously they can't have every minor league player hanging out, so how many is the correct number? The more the merrier? I don't know. But I really can't get too worked up that someone who may never be on a playoff roster for the Sox didn't watch the game on the clubhouse couch.

 

And I would use Danks as an example also. He watched Mark then put what he observed immediately into play. Day in and day out. A couple games would not have made that same difference. And for some of the guys that are called up in September, that is the time for that experience, not adding to the carnival of the playoffs.

 

Again, not dismissing the value to the minor leaguers, but not seeing any value to the 25 man roster and their goal of winning.

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

I had no idea that you could only have a certain amount of players in the dugout. I remember Thomas, Anderson, and Gload in the dugout during the 2005 playoffs.

[rangercal]

I wanted ALL Those guys gone anyway. Hopefully this seals the deal!

[southsider2k5]

In a properly run Scout program, I can't think of an example where they are told not to. Perhaps there is one. But I can't think of a time they come to an activity and told to just sit in another room and watch and *maybe* someday you'll have a chance to do this. But I only have 20 years into the program And that is really a side note.

 

How important is it to win, and how important is it to get AAAA players time hanging on the clubhouse couch while the rest of the team takes the field? I believe winning is far more important than player development during the playoffs. That is what September call ups are for.

 

Anything that helps the 25 man roster prepare to play is good, anything that detracts from that is bad. If Broadway and Logan hanging around helps the team win, I'm for it. If Mark said he needs Logan in the clubhouse, than Logan whoulsd be in the clubhouse. But I've never heard that. I agree it is good experience for the developing players, but at what expense? Obviously they can't have every minor league player hanging out, so how many is the correct number? The more the merrier? I don't know. But I really can't get too worked up that someone who may never be on a playoff roster for the Sox didn't watch the game on the clubhouse couch.

 

And I would use Danks as an example also. He watched Mark then put what he observed immediately into play. Day in and day out. A couple games would not have made that same difference. And for some of the guys that are called up in September, that is the time for that experience, not adding to the carnival of the playoffs.

 

Again, not dismissing the value to the minor leaguers, but not seeing any value to the 25 man roster and their goal of winning.

 

They are going to get a chance to try, just not right at that exact second. Don't forget we shut down Danks for pretty much all of September07, and guess where he sat for pretty much that entire month. Mentoring is very important to the future of the team. Maybe it doesn't pay dividends that second, but it does down the road, which is why you do it. In the same vein, what benefit do you get out of being a scout master in that very second its happening? Does it improve some skill of yours? No. It is teaching the kids life lessons, just like the next generation of ballplayers learn valuable lessons hanging out with winners.

[Texsox]

I'm wondering which non roster players were in the dugout in 2005 that were on the roster here in 2008 and how they fared in 2006 etc.

 

BA is the only one I thought of, and his 2006 kind of sucked.

[elrockinMT]

I had no idea that you could only have a certain amount of players in the dugout. I remember Thomas, Anderson, and Gload in the dugout during the 2005 playoffs.

 

 

Neither did I. But, Broadway and other young pitchers can learn an awful lot from Mark Buerhle and I think from the way it sounds he is a willing and good teacher

[Dick Allen]

I'm wondering which non roster players were in the dugout in 2005 that were on the roster here in 2008 and how they fared in 2006 etc.

 

BA is the only one I thought of, and his 2006 kind of sucked.

I don't think being with the team during their postseason run would have any effect on their performance next season, but I think it would have an effect on how other players view you as a teammate. The guys that went home aren't good enough to stick around long if they are thought of as bad teammates and quitters. I think being there would and should be an honor for these guys, especially because none have ever experienced a playoff game at the major league level. You can work out with your teammates before the game, its just gametime when you can't be in the dugout. I just find it wrong that any player would rather just go home than experience that. I hope the rest of their "teammates" take notice and when it gets to be time to split up the extra cash they get for winning the division and competing in the postseason, they show these guys just how much they noticed.

[WCSox]

I think being there would and should be an honor for these guys, especially because none have ever experienced a playoff game at the major league level. You can work out with your teammates before the game, its just gametime when you can't be in the dugout. I just find it wrong that any player would rather just go home than experience that.

 

Agreed and, on a more basic level, I find it just wrong that these guys didn't want to stick around and support their teammates. I'm sure that most of our parents showed up at our little league and high school games. They weren't handing us water in the dugout, but I'm sure that we appreciated the fact that they were there cheering for us.

 

[Texsox]

Yeah. those 30,000 fans at the game were not enough. I'm certain it totally ruined Buehrle's night when he went to high five Logan and he wasn't there. Or needed a pat on the ass from Broadway and he was gone. I'm certain Junior missed that ball over his head because there wasn't enough guys on the clubhouse couch rooting for him. Comparing professional players to little league players needing their moms and dads is silly. They manage to play almost an entire 162 game season (minus Sept.) without extras in the clubhouse and on the bench.

 

Yeah, it is a great experience hanging out. Fans would pay $$ for that opportunity. It is totally cool to see all the behind the scenes stuff. And parties are always better with a crowd. But that comes at an expense. There are no free lunches.

 

And point to someone on this team who benefited from being in the clubhouse, but not on the roster, during the playoffs in 2005. Was Danks ever hanging around a playoff locker room?

 

And how many AAAA players need to be hanging around? Eight? Eleven? Twenty?

 

Are we really thinking they would have won even another game with more guys hanging out in the clubhouse?

[Milkman delivers]

Yeah. those 30,000 fans at the game were not enough. I'm certain it totally ruined Buehrle's night when he went to high five Logan and he wasn't there. Or needed a pat on the ass from Broadway and he was gone. I'm certain Junior missed that ball over his head because there wasn't enough guys on the clubhouse couch rooting for him. Comparing professional players to little league players needing their moms and dads is silly. They manage to play almost an entire 162 game season (minus Sept.) without extras in the clubhouse and on the bench.

 

Yeah, it is a great experience hanging out. Fans would pay $$ for that opportunity. It is totally cool to see all the behind the scenes stuff. And parties are always better with a crowd. But that comes at an expense. There are no free lunches.

 

And point to someone on this team who benefited from being in the clubhouse, but not on the roster, during the playoffs in 2005. Was Danks ever hanging around a playoff locker room?

 

And how many AAAA players need to be hanging around? Eight? Eleven? Twenty?

 

Are we really thinking they would have won even another game with more guys hanging out in the clubhouse?

 

I don't think that's even the issue being raised. Dick Allen's comments are exactly to the point.

[southsider2k5]

Yeah. those 30,000 fans at the game were not enough. I'm certain it totally ruined Buehrle's night when he went to high five Logan and he wasn't there. Or needed a pat on the ass from Broadway and he was gone. I'm certain Junior missed that ball over his head because there wasn't enough guys on the clubhouse couch rooting for him. Comparing professional players to little league players needing their moms and dads is silly. They manage to play almost an entire 162 game season (minus Sept.) without extras in the clubhouse and on the bench.

 

Yeah, it is a great experience hanging out. Fans would pay $$ for that opportunity. It is totally cool to see all the behind the scenes stuff. And parties are always better with a crowd. But that comes at an expense. There are no free lunches.

 

And point to someone on this team who benefited from being in the clubhouse, but not on the roster, during the playoffs in 2005. Was Danks ever hanging around a playoff locker room?

 

And how many AAAA players need to be hanging around? Eight? Eleven? Twenty?

 

Are we really thinking they would have won even another game with more guys hanging out in the clubhouse?

 

If you can't see the future benefit of observing people doing your job at the highest level, I'm not sure what else there is to argue about.

[Texsox]

I don't think that's even the issue being raised. Dick Allen's comments are exactly to the point.

So it seems we agree it doesn't help win any games. And we also agree there are a number of great reasons that it helps the AAAA guys.

 

Where we disagree is the cost of getting those AAAA players a chance to sit on the clubhouse couch and maybe spray some champagne. If that is the goal of being in the playoffs, that is great. But in my mind, it's all about winning games, and having extra ass patters on the club house couch seems silly and potentially distracting.

 

And the next time I hear a manager say on the eve of a playoff game "I'm not worried about , he was in the clubhouse during our 2008 run and he knows what it takes" will be the first time. There is no substitute for preparing and actually playing. The rest is just to party.

[Texsox]

If you can't see the future benefit of observing people doing your job at the highest level, I'm not sure what else there is to argue about.

 

Sorry, I am not making my point clearly. I do see the benefit for the AAAA players and whatever team they may be on down the road. I think it is over rated, but would not dismiss it.

 

---->>> I also see the bigger benefit of not distracting the MLB roster players from the goal of winning.

 

So the argument is whether this advances the team towards their goal of winning or away. I see potential distractions and zero benefit towards the goal of winning.

 

Getting AAAA players clubhouse couch time is so far down my list of what is important during the playoffs, it almost doesn't make the list. I agree it would be nice for Broadway, and if he ever is on a playoff roster there may be some value.

[Dick Allen]

Sorry, I am not making my point clearly. I do see the benefit for the AAAA players and whatever team they may be on down the road. I think it is over rated, but would not dismiss it.

 

---->>> I also see the bigger benefit of not distracting the MLB roster players from the goal of winning.

 

So the argument is whether this advances the team towards their goal of winning or away. I see potential distractions and zero benefit towards the goal of winning.

 

Getting AAAA players clubhouse couch time is so far down my list of what is important during the playoffs, it almost doesn't make the list. I agree it would be nice for Broadway, and if he ever is on a playoff roster there may be some value.

The clubhouse couch time is just during the game, and a lot of players go back to the clubhouse during the game.

[Texsox]

The clubhouse couch time is just during the game, and a lot of players go back to the clubhouse during the game.

Why do they go back there?

 

This goes to the point I was making. I do not believe Dye rushes into the clubhouse during the game thinking where is Logan and Broadway? I need a crowd back here, there are not enough people on the bench! Let's have a party!

 

Having an extra dozen or so guys just hanging around has the potential to distract from the goal at hand. I see some value to (for example)Logan, but none to Buerhle.

[elrockinMT]

Team support is the bottom line and the guys that went home apparently don't understand that. However, there may be more here than what we are reading in this story and the more I ponder it the more I just have to think we need to step back and not get to critical yet. Other than Broadway, who amongst them is really in the picture for 09 anyway?

[klaus kinski]

This may be a bad example, but when there's a function or meeting at work and some choose not to go when others are making presentations or have worked hard to make the event happen, it gets noticed.

 

I have had kids graduate HS and have had to sit through ceremony's and hear every kid get name recognition. But there are always a few that once their kid is announced, they leave and it gets noticed. its ignorant.

 

If you are on the team, you support the others that have to work or honor their achievments by being there.

[Texsox]

Team support is the bottom line and the guys that went home apparently don't understand that. However, there may be more here than what we are reading in this story and the more I ponder it the more I just have to think we need to step back and not get to critical yet. Other than Broadway, who amongst them is really in the picture for 09 anyway?

I agree with everything here. But the question is, does it support (help) the team by having a dozen extra guys hanging around when you aren't even on the team? Each player has 24 other teammates right there on the bench, who are on the roster, preparing, and sharing the same experiences. But someone that isn't enough, they need some of the AAAA guys on the bench and in the clubhouse, whose only role is ass patting?

 

Unless someone offers how having 35 supporters is better than 24, and why Buerhle needs the support of Logan to pitch better, I'm just not too excited about those guys leaving.

 

And again I understand it could in some way help Logan and whatever team he may be playing on if he ever is on some playoff roster. But I still am not seeing any value to Buerhle and the team's goal of winning.

[Milkman delivers]

I agree with everything here. But the question is, does it support (help) the team by having a dozen extra guys hanging around when you aren't even on the team? Each player has 24 other teammates right there on the bench, who are on the roster, preparing, and sharing the same experiences. But someone that isn't enough, they need some of the AAAA guys on the bench and in the clubhouse, whose only role is ass patting?

 

Unless someone offers how having 35 supporters is better than 24, and why Buerhle needs the support of Logan to pitch better, I'm just not too excited about those guys leaving.

 

And again I understand it could in some way help Logan and whatever team he may be playing on if he ever is on some playoff roster. But I still am not seeing any value to Buerhle and the team's goal of winning.

 

In the way you phrase it, it does not help for them to be there. But, it helps down the road in that it helps the players to connect. It helps to create a cohesive team when the players are there to support each other. It may not help Buehrle pitch better to have Logan in the dugout, but I guarantee there are plenty of guys who look at Logan next year in spring training (if he's there), and think, "there's that POS that didn't even stick around in the playoffs."

[Baines3]

I think the players that went home after getting to Tampa knew they wouldn't be on the roster next season anyhow. I believe in sticking with the team, till such time as being released.

 

[Dick Allen]

Why do they go back there?

 

This goes to the point I was making. I do not believe Dye rushes into the clubhouse during the game thinking where is Logan and Broadway? I need a crowd back here, there are not enough people on the bench! Let's have a party!

 

Having an extra dozen or so guys just hanging around has the potential to distract from the goal at hand. I see some value to (for example)Logan, but none to Buerhle.

If its such a distraction, why are guys called up every September? Those 3 should have hung around, but they were probably too big league to do so. Whatever. Their careers will be really short and they will regret their decision.

[Texsox]

In the way you phrase it, it does not help for them to be there. But, it helps down the road in that it helps the players to connect. It helps to create a cohesive team when the players are there to support each other. It may not help Buehrle pitch better to have Logan in the dugout, but I guarantee there are plenty of guys who look at Logan next year in spring training (if he's there), and think, "there's that POS that didn't even stick around in the playoffs."

 

Great point and something I did not consider. Add that on the side of having 40 guys in the clubhouse. But think about this, does it detract from the cohesiveness of the 25 guys who were selected to be on the playoff team to try to bond 40 guys, including 15 who are not on the team for the playoffs and whose playoff roster spot they lost to? Which follows my point, the focus should be on winning today, not Spring training when a fourth of the playoff guys will not be around anyways.

 

If its such a distraction, why are guys called up every September? Those 3 should have hung around, but they were probably too big league to do so. Whatever. Their careers will be really short and they will regret their decision.

 

To play! They are called up in September to gain some MLB experience, sell some tickets for teams that are out of it, gives their clubs a chance to see how they have developed. Lots of great reasons. Why doesn't every team max out on September call ups if the important thing is sitting in the locker room? Playoff teams especially tend to limit how many they call up.

 

I'm not saying there aren't some damn good reasons for having every minor league player hanging out in the clubhouse. But I guess I'm the only one that sees a cost in having so many unfamiliar and extraneous faces in the clubhouse.

[Dick Allen]

Great point and something I did not consider. Add that on the side of having 40 guys in the clubhouse. But think about this, does it detract from the cohesiveness of the 25 guys who were selected to be on the playoff team to try to bond 40 guys, including 15 who are not on the team for the playoffs and whose playoff roster spot they lost to? Which follows my point, the focus should be on winning today, not Spring training when a fourth of the playoff guys will not be around anyways.

 

 

 

They are called up in September to gain some MLB experience, sell some tickets for teams that are out of it, gives their clubs a chance to see how they have developed. Lots of great reasons. Why doesn't every team max out on September call ups if the important thing is sitting in the locker room? Playoff teams especially tend to limit how many they call up.

 

I'm not saying there aren't some damn good reasons for having every minor league player hanging out in the clubhouse. But I guess I'm the only one that sees a cost in having so many unfamiliar and extraneous faces in the clubhouse.

The faces aren't unfamiliar. MacDougal has spent a lot of time with the guys on the team, so has Logan. Even Broadway with spring training and his call-ups. Going home was obviously their choice, and maybe you're right, they had nothing to gain by hanging around. I think they had a lot to gain if they approached it correctly. I don't think guys like Wassermann and Burgeoius regret hanging around, and they will score points next spring.

[Texsox]

I have to go.

 

I agree that there are some good reasons to have a bunch of minor league players hanging around. I hope I also planted some thought that there are some reasons to not have a dozen minor league guys hanging around. I added all the reasons I could think of on a scale, and decided it wasn't any big deal if they wanted to leave.

 

Some quotes I was thinking about, but never worked in

 

"I'm treating this like any other game" (so what are the AAAA guys learning)

"The playoffs are different, lots of distractions, more reporters, team officials, crowds, etc, around" (why add more)

 

This thread will now die with me gone