Chicago @ Tampa Bay ALDS Game 2

[kwolf68]

Buehrle and Konerko are my 2 favorite Sox players of all time...no surprise they were awesome in 2005 and down the stretch this year.

 

 

Damn straight. Put it this way, any player a part of 2005 I hold them in greater esteem. I got on Javvy A LOT quicker than I got on Jose Contreras for example.

 

And like you, Mark and Paul are two of my favorite players...I'm still a big Crede fan and I was indeed part of the Rowand fanbase, but Buehrle just is awe inspiring at times and Konerko has never lost favor with me and as I said never will.

 

He and Burls are two of the reasons I have a framed plaque on my wall from 2005 with a piece of world series baseball...Paulie and Burls are two of the reasons I have 8 videos (on VHS) of games going from game 1 ALDS v. Bawston to Game 4 WS title v. Houston....Paulie and Burls are two of the reasons I have a shirt and a seather for the 2005 World Series Champions.

 

ANYONE a part of that team gets a pass from this kid, because NOTHING has ever felt as good...1985 with the Bears? It was awesome, but didn't even come close to 2005...Ill never forget that and Ill never forget the players who gave me (and many others) that joy.

Edited October 4, 2008 by kwolf68

[bmags]

Watching Tampa and Minnesota play against us make me realize how bad this team needs alittle bit of speed. Granite we have a homerun hitting ballpark, but to succeed in the post season, it is almost impossible to win with out it, esspecially on the road. I think the 2005 team had a perfect blend of power and speed. I have no doubt in my mind that we cant win games 3 and 4. But i have no doubt in my mind we'll lose game 5 if it comes to that.

Orland Hudson would be a perfect 2 hole hitter. But this team really needs a true leadoff hitter. A guy who can steal 50-60 bases and a decent OBP.

 

I mean this is true. But BOY we look so much better when CQ walks up after OC and swish.

[whitesoxbrian]

Ryan howard hit .230...does that make him a good hitter. I don't think so.

 

oh wait.

Ryan Howard hit .250 this year.

 

Adam Dunn is an excellent hitter.

No, he's an excellent offensive player. Not an excellent hitter, though.

[almagest]

Yeah, that's all he does. He hit what, .245? I never said he doesn't get on base for us- that would be the reason I'd want to keep him actually, if his AVG wasn't so bad. So yeah, he isn't a good hitter. Probably 75% of Adam Dunn's hits were extra base hits, does that make him a good hitter? Don't think so.

So all Thome does is get on base and club doubles and homers. Man, what an awful DH! And, yeah, Adam Dunn is a good hitter. I don't know what metrics you rate good hitters by, but someone who has a .381 lifetime OBP and a slugging percentage over .500 is pretty good.

 

Seriously I can't believe you thought Adam Dunn being bad was a valid point. Do you pay attention to ANY stat besides batting average?

[BlackBetsy]

Thome "just isn't a good hitter?" On whose authority? Yours? Please. He got us into the playoffs. He still put up an .865 OPS at the age of 37. He gets on base a ton and more than half his hits were extra base hits. You probably want to come up with some actual legitimate evidence before you post.

Good points, but Thome is pretty much on his last legs. He is consistently behind the fastball now and his average has dropped into the .240's.

 

My guess is that Thome hits in the .220's next year with a lower than normal OBP because folks will just challenge him with fastballs and then fades off onto the DL by July as Konerko replaces him at DH and Swisher becomes the full-time 1B man. Thome hit .205 / .314 / .398 in September, and I think that's more like what you can expect from him in 2009.

[Sox It To Em]

No, he's an excellent offensive player. Not an excellent hitter, though.

 

I agree that high AVG/high OBP is preferable to low AVG/high OBP, but guys like that are hard to find.

[GreatScott82]

THe fact that we even got here was an accomplishment based on the injuries and the teams in the division such as Minny, Detroit and Cleveland. However, to win this thing next year i think we need 3-4 things. A leadoff hitter with lots of speed, another SP and another dependable reliever. Its been a wild year guys. I hope it doesnt end on sunday, but if it does- god bless. That Tuesday night game vs Minny will be one of my favorite games of all time! It goes right up there with winning the world series, but not as good of course!

[Flash Tizzle]

Here's a huge problem -- 1-5 in the lineup was 9-22, 2BB, 1HBP.......with only ONE run batted in. They're slow and unable to muster hits at the right moment. If Konerko Dye or Thome are on first base we're going to need two more hits (i wont acknowledge a 3B) or HR. One of those three just have to move. Enough of these guys who are exactly the same type of player with too little speed and too much age.

Edited October 4, 2008 by Flash Tizzle

[southsideirish71]

I don't really give a s***, obviously they come for the playoffs. But those cowbells are stupid as hell. Use your hands and mouth like the rest of us.

 

I have a great Idea brooks, "Air Horn" day, we pass out air horns to the first 40,000 in attendence!

 

You must of forgot the thundersticks we had in 05 in the DS.

 

 

 

 

[bmags]

You must of forgot the thundersticks we had in 05 in the DS.

 

The proliferation of our tsticks ain't no where near the old men with cowbells. Plus I don't remember a thunderstick when i went to the CS

[whitesoxbrian]

So all Thome does is get on base and club doubles and homers. Man, what an awful DH! And, yeah, Adam Dunn is a good hitter. I don't know what metrics you rate good hitters by, but someone who has a .381 lifetime OBP and a slugging percentage over .500 is pretty good.

 

Seriously I can't believe you thought Adam Dunn being bad was a valid point. Do you pay attention to ANY stat besides batting average?

I never said he was bad. But he isn't a good HITTER. He is a good all around offensive player because of his good eye, not because he rips singles all over the park.

[whitesoxbrian]

I agree that high AVG/high OBP is preferable to low AVG/high OBP, but guys like that are hard to find.

My boy Brian Roberts finds a way, and that's just 1 off the top of my head. Cabrera isn't so bad, but his attitude and all that makes people forget he hit close to .285 and I believe (I'm guessing) his OBP was around .335.

 

That isn't great by Cabrera, but he isn't a lead-off guy anyways. He's a good 8, 9, or 2 hitter in the MLB.

[Sox It To Em]

My boy Brian Roberts finds a way, and that's just 1 off the top of my head. Cabrera isn't so bad, but his attitude and all that makes people forget he hit close to .285 and I believe (I'm guessing) his OBP was around .335.

 

That isn't great by Cabrera, but he isn't a lead-off guy anyways. He's a good 8, 9, or 2 hitter in the MLB.

 

I agree that Brian Roberts would be an ideal fit for our lineup, but I'm not sure we have the horses to get him. Orlando Hudson is probably more likely as an FA.

Edited October 4, 2008 by Sox It To Em

[kwolf68]

 

Brian Roberts at 2nd, Ram at SS with a real 3rd baseman and a replacement for Javvy and Id be excited for next year.

[whitesoxbrian]

I agree that Brian Roberts would be an ideal fit for our lineup, but I'm not sure we have the horses to get him. Orlando Hudson is probably more likely as an FA.

With Cano possibly being traded, the Yankees will go for Roberts or Hudson. However, Baltimore won't trade him to New York which means Hudson may be on his way to the Bronx. In other words, I like our chances of landing Roberts.

[MexSoxFan#1]

Damn straight. Put it this way, any player a part of 2005 I hold them in greater esteem. I got on Javvy A LOT quicker than I got on Jose Contreras for example.

 

And like you, Mark and Paul are two of my favorite players...I'm still a big Crede fan and I was indeed part of the Rowand fanbase, but Buehrle just is awe inspiring at times and Konerko has never lost favor with me and as I said never will.

 

He and Burls are two of the reasons I have a framed plaque on my wall from 2005 with a piece of world series baseball...Paulie and Burls are two of the reasons I have 8 videos (on VHS) of games going from game 1 ALDS v. Bawston to Game 4 WS title v. Houston....Paulie and Burls are two of the reasons I have a shirt and a seather for the 2005 World Series.

 

ANYONE a part of that team gets a pass from this kid, because NOTHING has ever felt as good...1985 with the Bears? It was awesome, but didn't even come close to 2005...Ill never forget that and Ill never forget the players who gave me (and many others) that joy.

How bout some love for my man,Carl Everette?Or for Cliff Politte anyone?Wat about Pods?Iguchi anyone?Visquel ring a bell,hey that ryhmed!

[whitesoxbrian]

Brian Roberts at 2nd, Ram at SS with a real 3rd baseman and a replacement for Javvy and Id be excited for next year.

What would we have to give Baltimore to get Huff OR Mora and Roberts??

[Sox It To Em]

I don't think Vazquez will be going anywhere. Starters that can give you 200 innings and a 4.50 ERA are extremely valuable in today's pitching market.

[kwolf68]

I don't think Vazquez will be going anywhere. Starters that can give you 200 innings and a 4.50 ERA are extremely valuable in today's pitching market.

 

Good, then that means we can deal him. Mark my words, he's history.

[Sox It To Em]

What would we have to give Baltimore to get Huff OR Mora and Roberts??

 

I wouldn't want anything to do with Huff. We would be buying high and there is little chance he replicates this career year of his. I could go for Mora as a stopgap until Beckham is ready.

 

So I guess Fields is out of the picture now? Shame we didn't trade him when he was still a blue-chip prospect.

 

[zenryan]

Javy isnt going anywhere. Plus he'd be a number 4 pitcher so him being a back end pitcher isnt that bad. Could do a lot worse.

[kwolf68]

What would we have to give Baltimore to get Huff OR Mora and Roberts??

 

 

Huff OR Mora + Roberts?

 

Wow...Well, Huff had a great year this year, I don't think we could get him + Roberts.

 

Mora and Roberts would be interesting.

 

I think in the least

 

Fields ... and at least 3 other prospects. Thing is, we don't really have anyting in the minors to deal.

 

In short, I dont think we could get a deal done for Mora + Roberts...in fact, I dont know that we could land Roberts, much as Id love to have him.

[Sox It To Em]

Good, then that means we can deal him. Mark my words, he's history.

 

I'm not a fan of Vazquez, but trading him would create a huge hole. I don't think he'll be dealt, especially because his value is currently quite low. I could be wrong though.

[kwolf68]

Javy isnt going anywhere. Plus he'd be a number 4 pitcher so him being a back end pitcher isnt that bad. Could do a lot worse.

 

 

Javy is gone. He's pitched his last games in Chicago...

 

Ozzie questions his toughness and he melts down versus Minnesota, then he melts down versus Cleveland (both games were the only two blowouts that happenend in our 5 game losing streak)...So Ozzie questions Vazquez and Vazquez drops TWO TURDS smack dab in the middle of a pennant race..then Ozzie starts him in ALDS Game 1 and he melts down AGAIN...

 

He's out of CHicago...the only way I'd want to retain him is as 5th starter/long relief.

Edited October 4, 2008 by kwolf68

[kwolf68]

I'm not a fan of Vazquez, but trading him would create a huge hole. I don't think he'll be dealt, especially because his value is currently quite low. I could be wrong though.

 

 

One man's junk is anothers treasure. Maybe someone thinks they can 'reform' him to have a heart.

 

If we deal Vazquez we obviously need a SP to take his place...thing is, I believe there are TONS who can give AT LEAST what Javy gives...mediocrity. The league is full of that. So my view is...find a mediocre pitcher for a fraction of Javy's take home and pull in a couple young guns in trade, let Coop sprinkle magic dust on their arm and see where it takes us.

 

I still contend WE MUST move into 2009 MINUS Javy.